Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #461  
Old 29.07.2012, 23:20
dannyt986's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wollerau, Schwyz
Posts: 1,834
Groaned at 26 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 727 Times in 487 Posts
dannyt986 has a reputation beyond reputedannyt986 has a reputation beyond reputedannyt986 has a reputation beyond reputedannyt986 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
The peg is costing 45k per day per resident, the chf will be worth a great deal less if the peg is not dumped asap.
So 7million * 45000 = 315 billion per day. I think not. That would be 50pct of GDP (per day)

I do however wonder how long the finger can hold the dam.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dannyt986 for this useful post:
  #462  
Old 30.07.2012, 01:25
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
So 7million * 45000 = 315 billion per day. I think not. That would be 50pct of GDP (per day)

I do however wonder how long the finger can hold the dam.
Maybe he meant 45k CHuFs per day? That would still be peanuts, 45k * 365 = 1.6425 million CHuFs per year.
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 30.07.2012, 02:49
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,951
Groaned at 448 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 22,168 Times in 11,497 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Maybe he meant 45k CHuFs per day? That would still be peanuts, 45k * 365 = 1.6425 million CHuFs per year.
Someone else did the maths on the forum a couple a weeks ago, something like a billion a day was spent last quarter.
Reply With Quote
  #464  
Old 30.07.2012, 08:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
if they exit and default, i think germany will suffer. just look at the target2 balances:

Thanks for that graphical display.
Looking at it and appreciating what it says is disturbing.
To me an evaluation of it says how absolutely unsustainable the present situation has become in Euroland with Germany virtually the only major supplier of goods.
To my mind Germany will suffer BECAUSE the situation is unsustainable. It's not so much a question of whether some states drop out of the system as a result of the present situation, but to come to terms with what is wrong. German sales to Euroland will have to drop back anyway. I personally think Euroland has painted itself into the corner ...and the paint ain't drying.
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 30.07.2012, 10:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,624
Groaned at 70 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 3,794 Times in 2,054 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for that graphical display.

Those numbers have been known for some time (even hit main-stream press at some point).
But not much happened.
It's probably true that a good part (most?) of Germany's recent economic success is financed by cheap credit to other EU member-states via German banks.
In a way, this resembles the USA-China economic balance where China buys US debt bills and the US buys the goods manufactured in China.
(Which we all know is a game that can't go on like this forever).


According to this article:
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-11641938.html

two thirds of Germany's exports stay within the EU.

https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFak...r/Aktuell.html

says, it's 70% "Europe" and 59% EU, 16% Asia.


According to this PDF:
http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...TZn4Ng&cad=rja

60% of the Swiss exports also go to "Europe", and 20% to Asia.

So, export-wise, Switzerland is basically in the same boat as Germany.

Last edited by rainer_d; 30.07.2012 at 10:04. Reason: :s/good/goods/
Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 30.07.2012, 12:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,013
Groaned at 171 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
think through carefully before you acquire metal. most people are better served by acquiring gold funds, or trade online, or even buy gold futures.

there are few good reasons for buying physical gold if you are not a goldsmith, which i suspect you are not...

or a central banker, which I am certain you are not
Dino,

I started this thread.
Love your comment and others back in 2009.
Reply With Quote
  #467  
Old 30.07.2012, 15:38
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 1,088
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,059 Times in 440 Posts
ipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputation
Re: Gold Buying

OK... so I reckon that Gold prices will go up in the next couple of years. If for no other reason that the indisputable trend has been.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.

.. and it's been bouncing around for a while.

So I'm inclined to get some of the stuff...but I'm still confused about the best way forward. Walking into UBS with some cash and walking out with some shiny stuff seems to be the easiest and 'safest' procedure. But some people here think that's not as 'clever' as trading 'shares' in gold.

Could someone please put forward the simple pros and cons of the two options.
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 30.07.2012, 18:25
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
OK... so I reckon that Gold prices will go up in the next couple of years. If for no other reason that the indisputable trend has been.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.

.. and it's been bouncing around for a while.

So I'm inclined to get some of the stuff...but I'm still confused about the best way forward. Walking into UBS with some cash and walking out with some shiny stuff seems to be the easiest and 'safest' procedure. But some people here think that's not as 'clever' as trading 'shares' in gold.

Could someone please put forward the simple pros and cons of the two options.
that answer depends wholly on WHY you want to buy the stuff...
Reply With Quote
  #469  
Old 30.07.2012, 18:35
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
OK... so I reckon that Gold prices will go up in the next couple of years. If for no other reason that the indisputable trend has been.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.

.. and it's been bouncing around for a while.

So I'm inclined to get some of the stuff...but I'm still confused about the best way forward. Walking into UBS with some cash and walking out with some shiny stuff seems to be the easiest and 'safest' procedure. But some people here think that's not as 'clever' as trading 'shares' in gold.

Could someone please put forward the simple pros and cons of the two options.
One reason for wanting to buy physical gold might be:
That the world is flooded with paper... paper money, US Treasuries, bonds, German Bunds, gold certificates, paper this, that and the other.
If you drop a gold coin on the table it goes *clink*, if you put a gold bar down on the table it goes *clunk*. They are sounds I like. They also mean a lot to some people, like the Indians, the Arabs, nowadays the Chinese but very few people in Western Countries. A great pity I think !!

London Trader - The LBMA Gold Price Fixing Scheme Is Over
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 31.07.2012, 10:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,624
Groaned at 70 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 3,794 Times in 2,054 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
OK... so I reckon that Gold prices will go up in the next couple of years. If for no other reason that the indisputable trend has been.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.

.. and it's been bouncing around for a while.

So I'm inclined to get some of the stuff...but I'm still confused about the best way forward. Walking into UBS with some cash and walking out with some shiny stuff seems to be the easiest and 'safest' procedure. But some people here think that's not as 'clever' as trading 'shares' in gold.

Could someone please put forward the simple pros and cons of the two options.
I think you can actually take physical possession of gold, but then you carry all the risks of theft etc. yourself.
1kg=50k CHF.
Banks charge a fee for holding your physical gold in a vault.
But storing a couple of kilos of gold at home is bordering the insane IMO.
Even if you assume that at some point the state is just going to confiscate all physical gold stored in bank-vaults (which is the only semi-valid reason to take it out of the vault), you can be sure that they will also find the gold that you have taken out of the vault a couple of years ago.

A lot of people believe that there is not enough physical gold to cover all the "certificates" etc. floating around.
Which is not a problem, until at some point a lot of people actually want to take delivery of all the "paper-gold".
Then, the shit will hit the fan and all hell will break loose, making the physical gold all the more valuable, bringing the above scenario into play.
At that point, you can bet though, that society as we know it now will barely exist.
Reply With Quote
  #471  
Old 31.07.2012, 10:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I think you can actually take physical possession of gold, but then you carry all the risks of theft etc. yourself.
1kg=50k CHF.
Banks charge a fee for holding your physical gold in a vault.
But storing a couple of kilos of gold at home is bordering the insane IMO.
Even if you assume that at some point the state is just going to confiscate all physical gold stored in bank-vaults (which is the only semi-valid reason to take it out of the vault), you can be sure that they will also find the gold that you have taken out of the vault a couple of years ago.

A lot of people believe that there is not enough physical gold to cover all the "certificates" etc. floating around.
Which is not a problem, until at some point a lot of people actually want to take delivery of all the "paper-gold".
Then, the shit will hit the fan and all hell will break loose, making the physical gold all the more valuable, bringing the above scenario into play.
At that point, you can bet though, that society as we know it now will barely exist.
Regarding banks holding your physical gold in a vault:

This is what is called "Allocated Gold". In this respect see my post #450 on the subject which quotes a source that says that a very large amount of "Allocated Gold" has already been raided and sold off by banks, including banks in Switzerland. Whether one believes this or not it must be seen as a risk when paper money comes to its demise.

PS IMO one of the major advantages of holding gold or silver is not for investment but as protection against counter-party risks. Holding gold in a bank makes it much more accessible to the government that may one day wish to impose restrictions or taxes. This largely defeats the purpose of holding it. If it must be in a bank then in your own bank safe-deposit box where only you know what's in it (costs up to CHF100 per year).

Last edited by spalebärg; 31.07.2012 at 10:33.
Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old 31.07.2012, 11:34
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 1,088
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,059 Times in 440 Posts
ipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputation
Re: Gold Buying

Cheers... thanks for the feedback
Reply With Quote
  #473  
Old 31.07.2012, 13:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I think you can actually take physical possession of gold, but then you carry all the risks of theft etc. yourself.
1kg=50k CHF.
Banks charge a fee for holding your physical gold in a vault.
But storing a couple of kilos of gold at home is bordering the insane IMO.
Even if you assume that at some point the state is just going to confiscate all physical gold stored in bank-vaults (which is the only semi-valid reason to take it out of the vault), you can be sure that they will also find the gold that you have taken out of the vault a couple of years ago.

A lot of people believe that there is not enough physical gold to cover all the "certificates" etc. floating around.
Which is not a problem, until at some point a lot of people actually want to take delivery of all the "paper-gold".
Then, the shit will hit the fan and all hell will break loose, making the physical gold all the more valuable, bringing the above scenario into play.
At that point, you can bet though, that society as we know it now will barely exist.
Physical gold can also be insured (not cheap, but maybe worthwhile if prices keep going up).

Apart from doomsday scenarios, I think it is a valid store of wealth at home for US citizens in Switzerland being cut off banking services. Gold at home doesn't get reported into FBAR and FATCA, and as long as Switzerland remains a sovereign nation, doubt the IRS will be paying a visit to a Swiss residential address.
Reply With Quote
  #474  
Old 01.08.2012, 09:28
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: greece
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
gigidoc has no particular reputation at present
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
OK... so I reckon that Gold prices will go up in the next couple of years. If for no other reason that the indisputable trend has been.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.

.. and it's been bouncing around for a while.

So I'm inclined to get some of the stuff...but I'm still confused about the best way forward. Walking into UBS with some cash and walking out with some shiny stuff seems to be the easiest and 'safest' procedure. But some people here think that's not as 'clever' as trading 'shares' in gold.

Could someone please put forward the simple pros and cons of the two options.
Certainly owning physical gold is much preferable to the assurance of a banker that they keep your allocated gold. You can purchase it with cash up to 25K at UBS or CS. The problem is when you decide to sell it you must have an account at UBS if it is worth more than 25K (which includes the 1kg and 500gr bar as of now) so you are back into the banking system with all the obvious consequences. Paradoxically all the companies that advertise to sell you gold in Zurich are not interested in buying your gold! If anyone knows any reputable company which buys gold I would like to know.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gigidoc for this useful post:
  #475  
Old 01.08.2012, 09:50
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Certainly owning physical gold is much preferable to the assurance of a banker that they keep your allocated gold. You can purchase it with cash up to 25K at UBS or CS. The problem is when you decide to sell it you must have an account at UBS if it is worth more than 25K (which includes the 1kg and 500gr bar as of now) so you are back into the banking system with all the obvious consequences. Paradoxically all the companies that advertise to sell you gold in Zurich are not interested in buying your gold! If anyone knows any reputable company which buys gold I would like to know.
why would it matter if the company is reputable? they just need to give you cash.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #476  
Old 07.08.2012, 20:15
ozibird's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 157
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 33 Times in 23 Posts
ozibird has made some interesting contributions
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Cheers... thanks for the feedback
this is a legendery post - invaluable to go digging into it from page 1.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ozibird for this useful post:
  #477  
Old 15.08.2012, 07:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Gold has slipped but is hanging onto $1600 by its fingernails.
Will it hold on or not?
Personally I've got a feeling it may drop down a ledge or two further.
What say the experts?

PS don't be too heavy on us gold-bugs fat man
Reply With Quote
  #478  
Old 15.08.2012, 07:26
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,951
Groaned at 448 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 22,168 Times in 11,497 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
Gold has slipped but is hanging onto $1600 by its fingernails.
Will it hold on or not?
Personally I've got a feeling it may drop down a ledge or two further.
What say the experts?

PS don't be too heavy on us gold-bugs fat man
As gold has been the latest hot investment, many people who don't normally play the markets have been suckered in. If there is a severe down movement those investors will sell in fear of loosing everything. They tend to buy near the top & sell near the bottom, peoples mentality never changes!
Reply With Quote
  #479  
Old 16.08.2012, 21:21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Near vevey
Posts: 414
Groaned at 33 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 256 Times in 139 Posts
onei has annoyed a few people around hereonei has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Gold Buying

To be honest i could not be bothered reading all the replies but what I have found with trading gold unless you want to be FINBA registered you need to buy physical gold with your own money and take receipt of it…

Once in your hands physical gold can be traded from seller to buyer with no legislation in Switzerland, to hedge any potential losses due to the ups and downs of the market buy rarer gold bars that are no longer minted, if you can, such as the old design USB packets and the star of stars the old Perth Mint 'Oriana' bars that are no longer minted.

Once purchased list them for sale on Ebay or Craigslist with 100% markup, you wont sell much but you do sell them, for example 'Oriana' red packet 1 grams sell for about $100, if you buy a quantity you can get them for $50 or sometimes even less.

You need to educate your buyers, gold bullion bars like coins etc have quite a large number of collectors, a few banners in 'prepper' websites and and forums generate decent sales, the secret I have found without losing your inventory is sell, wait or a dip and buy, always try and maintain your own and your clients inventory, by trade and buy you can actually make more that ETF's, if you trade from Switzerland you can always make a few $$$ on postage, packaging and your time to do so.

The most important thing to remember when dealing in this way is to inform FINMA and tell them how you do it…The last thing you want for you and your clients is to have them sniffing around…

THE GOLDEN RULE (NO PUN INTENDED) IS TO MAKE SURE YOU VERIFY SOURCE OF FUNDS AND CHECK AND RECORD THEM..
Reply With Quote
  #480  
Old 17.08.2012, 15:20
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,266
Groaned at 72 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,700 Times in 1,746 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post

Once purchased list them for sale on Ebay or Craigslist with 100% markup, you wont sell much but you do sell them, for example 'Oriana' red packet 1 grams sell for about $100, if you buy a quantity you can get them for $50 or sometimes even less.

You need to educate your buyers, gold bullion bars like coins etc have quite a large number of collectors, a few banners in 'prepper' websites and and forums generate decent sales, the secret I have found without losing your inventory is sell, wait or a dip and buy, always try and maintain your own and your clients inventory, by trade and buy you can actually make more that ETF's, if you trade from Switzerland you can always make a few $$$ on postage, packaging and your time to do so.
OMG!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank The_Love_Doctor for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
gold, swiss franc




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOLD - Int'l recognition of swiss gold coins? Uncle GroOve Finance/banking/taxation 19 19.08.2011 18:04
Buying gold in Zurich Tiger Other/general 27 07.11.2010 14:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0