So 7million * 45000 = 315 billion per day. I think not. That would be 50pct of GDP (per day)

I do however wonder how long the finger can hold the dam.

Maybe he meant 45k CHuFs per day? That would still be peanuts, 45k * 365 = 1.6425 million CHuFs per year.

Someone else did the maths on the forum a couple a weeks ago, something like a billion a day was spent last quarter.

Thanks for that graphical display.
Looking at it and appreciating what it says is disturbing.
To me an evaluation of it says how absolutely unsustainable the present situation has become in Euroland with Germany virtually the only major supplier of goods.
To my mind Germany will suffer BECAUSE the situation is unsustainable. It's not so much a question of whether some states drop out of the system as a result of the present situation, but to come to terms with what is wrong. German sales to Euroland will have to drop back anyway. I personally think Euroland has painted itself into the corner ...and the paint ain't drying.

Those numbers have been known for some time (even hit main-stream press at some point).
But not much happened.
It's probably true that a good part (most?) of Germany's recent economic success is financed by cheap credit to other EU member-states via German banks.
In a way, this resembles the USA-China economic balance where China buys US debt bills and the US buys the goods manufactured in China.
(Which we all know is a game that can't go on like this forever).


According to this article:
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-11641938.html

two thirds of Germany's exports stay within the EU.

https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFak...r/Aktuell.html

says, it's 70% "Europe" and 59% EU, 16% Asia.


According to this PDF:
http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...TZn4Ng&cad=rja

60% of the Swiss exports also go to "Europe", and 20% to Asia.

So, export-wise, Switzerland is basically in the same boat as Germany.

Dino,

I started this thread.
Love your comment and others back in 2009.

OK... so I reckon that Gold prices will go up in the next couple of years. If for no other reason that the indisputable trend has been.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.. goes up for a while.. bounces around for a while.

.. and it's been bouncing around for a while.

So I'm inclined to get some of the stuff...but I'm still confused about the best way forward. Walking into UBS with some cash and walking out with some shiny stuff seems to be the easiest and 'safest' procedure. But some people here think that's not as 'clever' as trading 'shares' in gold.

Could someone please put forward the simple pros and cons of the two options.

that answer depends wholly on WHY you want to buy the stuff...

One reason for wanting to buy physical gold might be:
That the world is flooded with paper... paper money, US Treasuries, bonds, German Bunds, gold certificates, paper this, that and the other.
If you drop a gold coin on the table it goes *clink*, if you put a gold bar down on the table it goes *clunk*. They are sounds I like. They also mean a lot to some people, like the Indians, the Arabs, nowadays the Chinese but very few people in Western Countries. A great pity I think !!

London Trader - The LBMA Gold Price Fixing Scheme Is Over

I think you can actually take physical possession of gold, but then you carry all the risks of theft etc. yourself.
1kg=50k CHF.
Banks charge a fee for holding your physical gold in a vault.
But storing a couple of kilos of gold at home is bordering the insane IMO.
Even if you assume that at some point the state is just going to confiscate all physical gold stored in bank-vaults (which is the only semi-valid reason to take it out of the vault), you can be sure that they will also find the gold that you have taken out of the vault a couple of years ago.

A lot of people believe that there is not enough physical gold to cover all the "certificates" etc. floating around.
Which is not a problem, until at some point a lot of people actually want to take delivery of all the "paper-gold".
Then, the shit will hit the fan and all hell will break loose, making the physical gold all the more valuable, bringing the above scenario into play.
At that point, you can bet though, that society as we know it now will barely exist.

Regarding banks holding your physical gold in a vault:

This is what is called "Allocated Gold". In this respect see my post #450 on the subject which quotes a source that says that a very large amount of "Allocated Gold" has already been raided and sold off by banks, including banks in Switzerland. Whether one believes this or not it must be seen as a risk when paper money comes to its demise.

PS IMO one of the major advantages of holding gold or silver is not for investment but as protection against counter-party risks. Holding gold in a bank makes it much more accessible to the government that may one day wish to impose restrictions or taxes. This largely defeats the purpose of holding it. If it must be in a bank then in your own bank safe-deposit box where only you know what's in it (costs up to CHF100 per year).

Cheers... thanks for the feedback

Physical gold can also be insured (not cheap, but maybe worthwhile if prices keep going up).

Apart from doomsday scenarios, I think it is a valid store of wealth at home for US citizens in Switzerland being cut off banking services. Gold at home doesn't get reported into FBAR and FATCA, and as long as Switzerland remains a sovereign nation, doubt the IRS will be paying a visit to a Swiss residential address.

Certainly owning physical gold is much preferable to the assurance of a banker that they keep your allocated gold. You can purchase it with cash up to 25K at UBS or CS. The problem is when you decide to sell it you must have an account at UBS if it is worth more than 25K (which includes the 1kg and 500gr bar as of now) so you are back into the banking system with all the obvious consequences. Paradoxically all the companies that advertise to sell you gold in Zurich are not interested in buying your gold! If anyone knows any reputable company which buys gold I would like to know.

why would it matter if the company is reputable? they just need to give you cash.

this is a legendery post - invaluable to go digging into it from page 1.

Gold has slipped but is hanging onto $1600 by its fingernails.
Will it hold on or not?
Personally I've got a feeling it may drop down a ledge or two further.
What say the experts?

PS don't be too heavy on us gold-bugs fat man

As gold has been the latest hot investment, many people who don't normally play the markets have been suckered in. If there is a severe down movement those investors will sell in fear of loosing everything. They tend to buy near the top & sell near the bottom, peoples mentality never changes!

To be honest i could not be bothered reading all the replies but what I have found with trading gold unless you want to be FINBA registered you need to buy physical gold with your own money and take receipt of it…

Once in your hands physical gold can be traded from seller to buyer with no legislation in Switzerland, to hedge any potential losses due to the ups and downs of the market buy rarer gold bars that are no longer minted, if you can, such as the old design USB packets and the star of stars the old Perth Mint 'Oriana' bars that are no longer minted.

Once purchased list them for sale on Ebay or Craigslist with 100% markup, you wont sell much but you do sell them, for example 'Oriana' red packet 1 grams sell for about $100, if you buy a quantity you can get them for $50 or sometimes even less.

You need to educate your buyers, gold bullion bars like coins etc have quite a large number of collectors, a few banners in 'prepper' websites and and forums generate decent sales, the secret I have found without losing your inventory is sell, wait or a dip and buy, always try and maintain your own and your clients inventory, by trade and buy you can actually make more that ETF's, if you trade from Switzerland you can always make a few $$$ on postage, packaging and your time to do so.

The most important thing to remember when dealing in this way is to inform FINMA and tell them how you do it…The last thing you want for you and your clients is to have them sniffing around…

THE GOLDEN RULE (NO PUN INTENDED) IS TO MAKE SURE YOU VERIFY SOURCE OF FUNDS AND CHECK AND RECORD THEM..

OMG!