just saw this quote earlier on in.

with cyprus imposing withdrawal limits and also discussing measures breaking the depositor insurance promise, maybe we are now Argentina

now that i'm looking at this thread again. i wondered what the gold bulls think of Bitcoin? as a store of value, it is more 'gold-like' than gold and potentially better than gold as a store of value in terms if its qualities: supply is absolutely capped, bitcoins are easy to 'assay', easier to divide, cheap to store, quick to transact.

the only downside is it is new, and large amounts of bitcoins are held by a few people leading to a structural pressure to sell - though maybe enough demand can overcome this.

i was annoyed that i didn't buy or mine bitcoins a few years ago. although i could have made a small ($1000) punt, i thought the chances of it succeeding were so small, that it wasn't worth it. had to kick myself as that $1000 of bitcoins would have been worth over $10 million at recent high prices.

while cyprus has obviously helped, i still wonder if bitcoin will catch on, or whether it will be a fad that fades.

even if it ends up as a digital tulip bulb, it is still at the early stage of development so, possible to trade the bubble..

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That's why some people try to take as much out of it as possible to build/buy a house ;-)
And AFAIK, most of the money in pillar2 is invested in real-estate, too.
If you think real-estate is valued to high, currently in CH - what would that mean for the pillar 2 funds?

To me, is seems worth a 10% fee to guarantee that you have bought at the very bottom of say the current dip. So I would wait until the fall stops and a convincing recovery of 10% is seen.

That is a small price to pay in my book, missing on a 10% upswing, to have the certainty that you have at least bought after some kind of low.
However, I would want to see a 30% fall, before I would say there had been a significant dip.

yes, it would be worth it. unfortunately, a 10% dead cat bounce, is no guarantee

Which short window are you talking about, it's 30 odd year history inflation adjusted is poor, that's when gold was last hot.

The gold spot price dropped below $1,400 earlier today...

down 11% for the DAY now..!

Yeah, It's at $1,382 right now. I'll start to get interested if and when it goes below $1,000 and I'll be sitting on my hands giggling nervously at $750.

Pillar 2 has 'guaranteed' returns in most cases, zero risk either way. It's mostly cash or cash equivalents, with QE will be a disaster.

Its a good time to buy now, there can be some down trend but not too much as gold as lost its shine by almost 13-14% in just 2 days. So don't expect to follow same down trend, more chances of gold price going upwards.

Moreover average cost of producing gold is around 1100$/ounce(check link below) so its definitely not going down to that level.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle11228030/

Gold is down 18% this year.
The cost of producing gold is not the floor price, when gold traded at $300 many mines were mothballed, others were still mining where the cost was well above $300.
The fun has started, I see a support level about 1150, if it breaches that then who knows 500 will be quite possible.

agreed. mining price doesn't necessarily set a floor (particularly when mines have hedged their production). mines will continue to mine to settle the gold they sold forward.

You can see real time gold prices here (UBS link):

https://quotes-public2.ubs.com/app/C...kbench/wb/home

There's a lot of stories buzzing around on the net to explain the recent fall in gold prices. Take your pick!

Personally, I think there is a lot of merit in the one that either the COMEX in the US or the LBMA, the London physical market was very near to a default because of lack of gold to meet demand for it après the Cyprus incident. Result the big banks, with the ok from western govts., are using paper money to short gold and thereby drop the price to try to shake as many gold holders to release their gold stacks to meet the need for physical. Will is work out? I don't know, but in the West there are not many holders of gold, WHEREAS the Chinese, the Indians and the Arabs are still hungry for as much as they can get their hands on at these give-away prices. If this is the case these shorts will run out of steam soon and the price will return back upwards. Time will tell.

I'm also fearful that this is maybe more to do with a breakdown in the major paper currencies than a problem for gold.

If I had oodles of cash I would be a buyer.

There is a big difference between Gold ETFs (IOU notes) and holding Real Gold.

I would believe that the falling price is due to the ETFs.
This could be a buying opportunity for the real thing.

So many people are talking Bitcoin.
I would not trust it:
1) There is nowhere to complain to when you are robbed
2) It is digital; one could argue, no different than FIAT
3) What happens when there is a run on BITCOIN (hav't we seen this a couple of days ago).
4) Who is setting the price
5) How can sellers offer goods for sale in BITCOIN if it fluctuates so much.

It sounds like a con to me.

Stock are overvalued though and rose to much.

How much has Apple fallen this year?

I reckon we will see $1500+ by the end of this week.
Anyone else fool enough to quote a number?

I disagree, there are many bargains in the market, Apple being a prime example.
How much did Apple rise last year when Gold fell?, Apple has been a far better investment over 2 or more years. Over Golds bull run Apple would have been a way better investment.
Equities, I would assume to be more volatile than gold so what do you expect?