Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #581  
Old 27.04.2013, 22:34
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,460
Groaned at 390 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,607 Times in 8,999 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

I keep reading stories/rumours about a big shortfall in customer funds at MF Global so many people will not get their money back including people who had their gold stored by MF Global.

Anybody know more about this? I mean will people lose their gold (paper versions)?
Reply With Quote
  #582  
Old 28.04.2013, 00:49
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I keep reading stories/rumours about a big shortfall in customer funds at MF Global so many people will not get their money back including people who had their gold stored by MF Global.

Anybody know more about this? I mean will people lose their gold (paper versions)?
It is a real possibility. The safest bet is to physically own the bullion and store it in a safe deposit box where the bank can only be the custodian.

Unless, of course, you have government confiscation of gold (like in the US in 1933). BTW, if Obama decides to confiscate gold bullion, this would probably apply to US entities abroad also; I wonder how other countries would react to this (gold controls)?
Reply With Quote
  #583  
Old 28.04.2013, 01:21
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,830
Groaned at 271 Times in 177 Posts
Thanked 16,946 Times in 7,170 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
It is a real possibility. The safest bet is to physically own the bullion and store it in a secret hidden safe built into the concrete foundations of your house
ftfy
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #584  
Old 28.04.2013, 08:49
Verbier's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lully VD
Posts: 4,226
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 4,393 Times in 2,245 Posts
Verbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
It is a real possibility. The safest bet is to physically own the bullion and store it in a safe deposit box where the bank can only be the custodian.

Unless, of course, you have government confiscation of gold (like in the US in 1933). BTW, if Obama decides to confiscate gold bullion, this would probably apply to US entities abroad also; I wonder how other countries would react to this (gold controls)?
There are people (notably Doug Casey) that suggest you stay away from banks but rather go for a security company storage solution. The idea is that anything in a bank is easy for the government to get at. The idea of home storage is not really recommended especially with the possibility of home invasion (yes there are cases even here in CH).
Reply With Quote
  #585  
Old 28.04.2013, 13:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,492
Groaned at 62 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 3,617 Times in 1,969 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
There are people (notably Doug Casey) that suggest you stay away from banks but rather go for a security company storage solution. The idea is that anything in a bank is easy for the government to get at. The idea of home storage is not really recommended especially with the possibility of home invasion (yes there are cases even here in CH).
I think that with the "Cyprus case", we can safely say: everything is possible. Confiscation of gold bullion in bank-vaults included. And we have definitely *not* "seen it all".
That said: home invasions are quite common here. And when you hear that it nets the criminals, 50, 80 or 100k in cash, gold-coins and jewelery, it's no wonder criminals continue to do it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #586  
Old 28.04.2013, 13:37
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,460
Groaned at 390 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,607 Times in 8,999 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
It is a real possibility. The safest bet is to physically own the bullion and store it in a safe deposit box where the bank can only be the custodian.

Unless, of course, you have government confiscation of gold (like in the US in 1933). BTW, if Obama decides to confiscate gold bullion, this would probably apply to US entities abroad also; I wonder how other countries would react to this (gold controls)?
Apparently (they claim) that one of the difficulties of managing gold owned as paper gold is that people tend to buy paper in round numbers; say $10K. But there is no metal equivalent of $10K; so nobody wants to start cutting up metal bars & how do you manage to physically restore a metal bar that has multiple part owners?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #587  
Old 28.04.2013, 13:40
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,696
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,405 Times in 9,932 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Apparently (they claim) that one of the difficulties of managing gold owned as paper gold is that people tend to buy paper in round numbers; say $10K. But there is no metal equivalent of $10K; so nobody wants to start cutting up metal bars & how do you manage to physically restore a metal bar that has multiple part owners?
I guess you will be able to pick up gold bars at sometime in the future for 10k, it's just a matter of when! Every cloud has a silver lining!
Reply With Quote
  #588  
Old 28.04.2013, 14:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,492
Groaned at 62 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 3,617 Times in 1,969 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Apparently (they claim) that one of the difficulties of managing gold owned as paper gold is that people tend to buy paper in round numbers; say $10K. But there is no metal equivalent of $10K; so nobody wants to start cutting up metal bars & how do you manage to physically restore a metal bar that has multiple part owners?
You can only take delivery for full bars, AFAIK. A full bar is 400 ounces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_bar
I would assume, the fine print of the ETF makes this very clear...
Reply With Quote
  #589  
Old 28.04.2013, 15:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 653
Groaned at 17 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 448 Times in 285 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I think that with the "Cyprus case", we can safely say: everything is possible. Confiscation of gold bullion in bank-vaults included. And we have definitely *not* "seen it all".
Well said!
Everything we 'know' about banks and 'laws' will have to be repeatedly revised in the coming years - a sort of on-going mental exercise. Things are going to change and change repeatedly and sometimes rapidly. Don't trust anyone least of all the 'authorities'.
Reply With Quote
  #590  
Old 28.04.2013, 16:18
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,460
Groaned at 390 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,607 Times in 8,999 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
You can only take delivery for full bars, AFAIK. A full bar is 400 ounces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_bar
I would assume, the fine print of the ETF makes this very clear...
I think you miss the point?

I was talking about MF Global.
For example, you are a customer of MF Global and have a paper certificate worth one gold bar (size does not matter). Now suppose MF global lost one third of their customers money. You now own two thirds of a gold bar. I do not think fine print will recover your money.
Reply With Quote
  #591  
Old 10.05.2013, 09:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,696
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,405 Times in 9,932 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I think investment in Gold is a safe place for investment because it is also an appreciating asset, there is a very less chance of the gold price falling (as in the case of recent markets, so you have now to go for a purchase gold or gold share) and keep it for long period to earn good returns on it.
It's certainly the worst investment over the long term http://www.joshuakennon.com/stocks-v...ast-200-years/
Reply With Quote
  #592  
Old 10.05.2013, 10:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,322
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,688 Times in 1,608 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Interesting but where is the source of the investment 200 year period?
Reply With Quote
  #593  
Old 10.05.2013, 11:00
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,696
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,405 Times in 9,932 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Interesting but where is the source of the investment 200 year period?
Take a look here
http://onlygold.com/tutorialpages/prices200yrsfs.htm

Interestingly 1832 $19.39 to 1932 $20.67

With 98 years 1834-1933 price both $20-67

It's a bit like 'house prices never fall' & 'it's different this time'
Reply With Quote
  #594  
Old 13.05.2013, 10:15
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,696
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,405 Times in 9,932 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for providing this useful link mate and clearing my myth of investing in gold be safe in long run.
What I had not appreciated is quite how volatile an investment Gold has been since 1972, rather like owning 1 stock rather than a balanced portfolio. Quite amazing it's considered a 'safe investment'.
http://onlygold.com/tutorialpages/PicesSince1972FS.htm
Reply With Quote
  #595  
Old 16.05.2013, 09:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,322
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,688 Times in 1,608 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
What I had not appreciated is quite how volatile an investment Gold has been since 1972, rather like owning 1 stock rather than a balanced portfolio. Quite amazing it's considered a 'safe investment'.
http://onlygold.com/tutorialpages/PicesSince1972FS.htm
Do you not think the main principle of capitalism is about taking risk if you want a healthy return.
Obviously Value at Risk (VaR) must be carefully srutinized before such lucrative ventures.
Reply With Quote
  #596  
Old 16.05.2013, 10:20
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,696
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,405 Times in 9,932 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Do you not think the main principle of capitalism is about taking risk if you want a healthy return.
Obviously Value at Risk (VaR) must be carefully srutinized before such lucrative ventures.
Sure, but gold is often described as a currency so movements of +/- 50% in a year V USD seem extream.
Reply With Quote
  #597  
Old 20.06.2013, 01:05
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,830
Groaned at 271 Times in 177 Posts
Thanked 16,946 Times in 7,170 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

gold still having a bad time...
Reply With Quote
  #598  
Old 26.06.2013, 23:29
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,696
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,405 Times in 9,932 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

HaHa so gold closed at $1230.50, the little people who bought high are now selling, where is the floor $1000, $800. $500 or $300 this will be fun to watch!
Reply With Quote
  #599  
Old 26.06.2013, 23:45
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,223
Groaned at 311 Times in 176 Posts
Thanked 3,314 Times in 1,577 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
HaHa so gold closed at $1230.50, the little people who bought high are now selling, where is the floor $1000, $800. $500 or $300 this will be fun to watch!
Will be also interesting to warch the so called experts disappear from sight as they realise the predictions of it being safe are false and only hold true until confidence in actual currenicies returns. Gold is absolutely not a safe investment and only worth touching if you know the market otherwise its riskier stocks
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wallabies for this useful post:
  #600  
Old 27.06.2013, 07:54
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,048
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

I wouldn't write gold off so quickly. There are reasons why the price is going down — not everybody is selling, and many of those who are selling, are selling "paper" gold, not physical gold (there's a meaningful difference).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
gold, swiss franc




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOLD - Int'l recognition of swiss gold coins? Uncle GroOve Finance/banking/taxation 19 19.08.2011 18:04
Buying gold in Zurich Tiger Other/general 27 07.11.2010 14:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0