Hello all, I was just wondering if someone can tell me where I can go in person to purchase physical gold and silver in Geneva? I have heard of UBS bank but are there other banks that can provide this? Also can anyone tell me when you do have the physical gold, can you sell it back to UBS or any other buyer you bought it from?

Ergh. I lost a couple thousands of franks. Because I "invested"...

Sorry to hear that greemount but you should hold on to precious metals for the long run. All fiat currencies fail at one time or another. Last six months China stop buying treasury form U.S. and continues to buy gold. Germany is in the process of getting their gold back and the BRIC countries are getting together to form their own World Bank. Something tells me US dollar days are coming to an end and that gold and silver will thrive.

They could also be just as likely to go down further, there is no guarantee and someone suggesting that gold and silver will increase on the basis suggested is purely guessing

You know what they say about a broken clock
;-)

But let's wait for the silly season (US "balanced budget" flimflam)...

You should be able to walk into any branch of UBS, Credit Suisse, Raiffeisen or Banque Cantonale de Genève today (2 September 2013) and buy (for example) a 20 gram bar of gold for about CHF 870.-. In some cases, they may ask you to take delivery a few days later, if they don't have the metal on hand at the time of purchase.

Selling back to them works similarly. Look here for examples at Raiffeisen. The 'Achat' price is what they're currently buying it for, while the 'Vente' price is what they're currently selling it for.

'Investing' in metal is folly. On the other hand, using metal as a store of wealth has historically been sound practice. If your objective was to somehow 'make a profit', you didn't understand the dynamics between fiat currencies and metal from the outset. It's a long-term self-preservation proposition, not a get-rich-quick scheme.

'Guessing' is not at all part of the equation.

It's no secret that the metal markets have long been heavily manipulated DOWNWARD by the central banks and their government partners at every opportunity and by every available means, but they can only do this as long as their fiat currencies remain viable and capable of controlled inflation. History is peppered with unequivocal proof that most every fiat currency eventually fails, whereas metals retain an unassailable value in the long term, regardless of what the central banks do.

__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant

Hahahaha, sort of nonsense put about by people who bought gold at the top. There are always buyers & sellers, someone can only manipulate the market for a few days or weeks. A bigger player will always step in like George Soros v £, when the UK government said they would not devalue......

Gold does not look like good value above $500 from where I am sitting

You're obviously still trapped in the 'investment' mentality box. I've bought metal both at the 'top' and (with relish) at the 'bottom' — and never looked back. If you keep your 'investments' in fiat currency-based objects, you will always remain vulnerable to the weaknesses of those currencies, whether you're willing to admit (or even understand) it or not.

He who laughs last...

Buy equities, don't hold cash will beat gold from here going forward. Only cash in fiat currencies is dangerous.........gold is in a bubble v fiat.......

What do you mean by the bottom? Bellow $20, or Below $70 in the 1970's

to be honest, i'm not sure holding cash is such a bad idea.

i don't see very much getting cheaper in cash terms:

- gold: in a bubble
- real estate: in a bubble
- equities: in a bubble
- bonds: in a bubble

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but equities based on fiat currencies are no more safe that the fiat currencies they're based on.

Exactly what evidence do you have to support your assertion that gold 'is in a bubble'? (And while you're at it, kindly define what you mean by 'bubble'.)

By 'bottom' I mean when metal prices are driven down by the manipulations of the central banks. The prices of metals are low, 'investors' panic and sell, but the rest of us enjoy the convenient pricing.

Oh, it's just fine until the fiat currency fails.

(Then you're left with less than nothing.)

How exactly do you reach the conclusion that gold is in a 'bubble'???

__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant

So you would prefer to trade gold to earn more fiat, than to use fiat to earn gold?

I think of gold like toilet paper (not the fiat currency kind). It's something that is not particulary perishable and so can be stored. If I find bog roll to be on sale I buy a lot of it becasue the price of bog roll has fallen with respect to CHF.

Gold at the recent bottom (as per the U.S.A. COMEX) was $1179.40 per troy ounce. That is around the cost of production, which depends on how much you are paying for your energy to extract the few ounces of gold per ton that counts as high grade ore these days. So gold at $500 is unreasonably cheap. I hate to think what would have to be going on to keep it at that price for long.

Keynesians and Austrians (such as Texaner) would agree on the basics of supply and demand. When something can only be sold at the price of production for a long time then companies cash flow starts to dry up and supply falls as production falls off.

Go and read up on what happened to Indian and Chinese demand for gold when it crashed. Are 3 billion Indians and Chinese wrong?

In the long run, over multi-decadal and even millennial time scales, Texaner is right. But that's not to say you can't make ounces of gold by trading in and out of the metal for dollars. The trick is to build up a core gold and silver stash over time that you will never sell for fiat.

The cost of producing gold is not a floor to its value, it's what a fool will pay, you believe a greater fool will pay more tomorrow, I am not so sure. Gold dropped well below 500 last time & took many years to recover, of course it's different this time........

Equities valuations are based on earnings, if fiat currencies drop 100 times in value, goods will cost 100 times more, profits will be 100 times more & share price will be 100 times more. Gold had ZERO earnings so has no reason to increase 100 fold in the same scenario.

Little people are talking about investing in Gold & Property so it's likely to be in bubble territory Those same people are not interested in equities because they perceive higher risk, however look at any long period & equities win many times over.

it's just a question of timing. is currency going to be the first to collapse before bonds, stocks, property and gold? if not, you can easily switch and buy into the others after they collapse.

e.g. buy property and equities after they crash.

and what exactly are you going to do with all this gold and silver? if you're never going to sell it, why not just burn your banknotes and save the effort of converting it into gold which you never use again?

Collateral.

Drop 100 times in value versus what?

Property yes, gold no. I thought an asset was in a bubble if a large enough proportion of wealth was invested in it. What is the size of the global property market, and what is the size of the global gold market?

You're right, provided demand for the yellow stuff can be satisfied by shifting around the existing bullion, melting down jewellery, etc.

But that's not the case at the moment, would you not agree?

I largely agree. But I wouldn't like to move everything out of one asset class and into another. I like the idea of leaving a core position behind, hopefully accumulated around a period of low prices.