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Old 02.09.2013, 20:12
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Re: Gold Buying

Hello all, I was just wondering if someone can tell me where I can go in person to purchase physical gold and silver in Geneva? I have heard of UBS bank but are there other banks that can provide this? Also can anyone tell me when you do have the physical gold, can you sell it back to UBS or any other buyer you bought it from?
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  #622  
Old 02.09.2013, 20:17
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Re: Gold Buying

Ergh. I lost a couple thousands of franks. Because I "invested"...
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  #623  
Old 02.09.2013, 20:28
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Re: Gold Buying

Sorry to hear that greemount but you should hold on to precious metals for the long run. All fiat currencies fail at one time or another. Last six months China stop buying treasury form U.S. and continues to buy gold. Germany is in the process of getting their gold back and the BRIC countries are getting together to form their own World Bank. Something tells me US dollar days are coming to an end and that gold and silver will thrive.
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  #624  
Old 02.09.2013, 20:33
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Re: Gold Buying

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Sorry to hear that greemount but you should hold on to precious metals for the long run. All fiat currencies fail at one time or another. Last six months China stop buying treasury form U.S. and continues to buy gold. Germany is in the process of getting their gold back and the BRIC countries are getting together to form their own World Bank. Something tells me US dollar days are coming to an end and that gold and silver will thrive.
They could also be just as likely to go down further, there is no guarantee and someone suggesting that gold and silver will increase on the basis suggested is purely guessing
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  #625  
Old 02.09.2013, 20:45
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Re: Gold Buying

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They could also be just as likely to go down further, there is no guarantee and someone suggesting that gold and silver will increase on the basis suggested is purely guessing

You know what they say about a broken clock
;-)

But let's wait for the silly season (US "balanced budget" flimflam)...
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  #626  
Old 02.09.2013, 21:50
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Re: Gold Buying

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Hello all, I was just wondering if someone can tell me where I can go in person to purchase physical gold and silver in Geneva? I have heard of UBS bank but are there other banks that can provide this? Also can anyone tell me when you do have the physical gold, can you sell it back to UBS or any other buyer you bought it from?
You should be able to walk into any branch of UBS, Credit Suisse, Raiffeisen or Banque Cantonale de Genève today (2 September 2013) and buy (for example) a 20 gram bar of gold for about CHF 870.-. In some cases, they may ask you to take delivery a few days later, if they don't have the metal on hand at the time of purchase.

Selling back to them works similarly. Look here for examples at Raiffeisen. The 'Achat' price is what they're currently buying it for, while the 'Vente' price is what they're currently selling it for.

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Ergh. I lost a couple thousands of franks. Because I "invested"...
'Investing' in metal is folly. On the other hand, using metal as a store of wealth has historically been sound practice. If your objective was to somehow 'make a profit', you didn't understand the dynamics between fiat currencies and metal from the outset. It's a long-term self-preservation proposition, not a get-rich-quick scheme.

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They could also be just as likely to go down further, there is no guarantee and someone suggesting that gold and silver will increase on the basis suggested is purely guessing
'Guessing' is not at all part of the equation.

It's no secret that the metal markets have long been heavily manipulated DOWNWARD by the central banks and their government partners at every opportunity and by every available means, but they can only do this as long as their fiat currencies remain viable and capable of controlled inflation. History is peppered with unequivocal proof that most every fiat currency eventually fails, whereas metals retain an unassailable value in the long term, regardless of what the central banks do.
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  #627  
Old 02.09.2013, 22:14
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Re: Gold Buying

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It's no secret that the metal markets have long been heavily manipulated DOWNWARD by the central banks and their government partners at every opportunity and by every available means, but they can only do this as long as their fiat currencies remain viable and capable of controlled inflation. History is peppered with unequivocal proof that most every fiat currency eventually fails, whereas metals retain an unassailable value in the long term, regardless of what the central banks do.
Hahahaha, sort of nonsense put about by people who bought gold at the top. There are always buyers & sellers, someone can only manipulate the market for a few days or weeks. A bigger player will always step in like George Soros v £, when the UK government said they would not devalue......

Gold does not look like good value above $500 from where I am sitting
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  #628  
Old 02.09.2013, 22:22
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Re: Gold Buying

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Hahahaha, sort of nonsense put about by people who bought gold at the top. There are always buyers & sellers, someone can only manipulate the market for a few days or weeks. A bigger player will always step in like George Soros v £, when the UK government said they would not devalue......

Gold does not look like good value above $500 from where I am sitting
You're obviously still trapped in the 'investment' mentality box. I've bought metal both at the 'top' and (with relish) at the 'bottom' — and never looked back. If you keep your 'investments' in fiat currency-based objects, you will always remain vulnerable to the weaknesses of those currencies, whether you're willing to admit (or even understand) it or not.

He who laughs last...
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  #629  
Old 02.09.2013, 22:43
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Re: Gold Buying

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You're obviously still trapped in the 'investment' mentality box. I've bought metal both at the 'top' and (with relish) at the 'bottom' — and never looked back. If you keep your 'investments' in fiat currency-based objects, you will always remain vulnerable to the weaknesses of those currencies, whether you're willing to admit (or even understand) it or not.

He who laughs last...
Buy equities, don't hold cash will beat gold from here going forward. Only cash in fiat currencies is dangerous.........gold is in a bubble v fiat.......

What do you mean by the bottom? Bellow $20, or Below $70 in the 1970's
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  #630  
Old 02.09.2013, 22:54
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Re: Gold Buying

to be honest, i'm not sure holding cash is such a bad idea.

i don't see very much getting cheaper in cash terms:

- gold: in a bubble
- real estate: in a bubble
- equities: in a bubble
- bonds: in a bubble
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  #631  
Old 02.09.2013, 23:08
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Re: Gold Buying

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Buy equities, don't hold cash will beat gold from here going forward. Only cash in fiat currencies is dangerous.........gold is in a bubble v fiat....
I have no idea what you're trying to say, but equities based on fiat currencies are no more safe that the fiat currencies they're based on.

Exactly what evidence do you have to support your assertion that gold 'is in a bubble'? (And while you're at it, kindly define what you mean by 'bubble'.)

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...What do you mean by the bottom?...
By 'bottom' I mean when metal prices are driven down by the manipulations of the central banks. The prices of metals are low, 'investors' panic and sell, but the rest of us enjoy the convenient pricing.

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to be honest, i'm not sure holding cash is such a bad idea...
Oh, it's just fine until the fiat currency fails.

(Then you're left with less than nothing.)

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- gold: in a bubble
How exactly do you reach the conclusion that gold is in a 'bubble'???
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  #632  
Old 02.09.2013, 23:47
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Re: Gold Buying

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Hahahaha, sort of nonsense put about by people who bought gold at the top. There are always buyers & sellers, someone can only manipulate the market for a few days or weeks. A bigger player will always step in like George Soros v £, when the UK government said they would not devalue......

Gold does not look like good value above $500 from where I am sitting
So you would prefer to trade gold to earn more fiat, than to use fiat to earn gold?

I think of gold like toilet paper (not the fiat currency kind). It's something that is not particulary perishable and so can be stored. If I find bog roll to be on sale I buy a lot of it becasue the price of bog roll has fallen with respect to CHF.

Gold at the recent bottom (as per the U.S.A. COMEX) was $1179.40 per troy ounce. That is around the cost of production, which depends on how much you are paying for your energy to extract the few ounces of gold per ton that counts as high grade ore these days. So gold at $500 is unreasonably cheap. I hate to think what would have to be going on to keep it at that price for long.

Keynesians and Austrians (such as Texaner) would agree on the basics of supply and demand. When something can only be sold at the price of production for a long time then companies cash flow starts to dry up and supply falls as production falls off.

Go and read up on what happened to Indian and Chinese demand for gold when it crashed. Are 3 billion Indians and Chinese wrong?

In the long run, over multi-decadal and even millennial time scales, Texaner is right. But that's not to say you can't make ounces of gold by trading in and out of the metal for dollars. The trick is to build up a core gold and silver stash over time that you will never sell for fiat.
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  #633  
Old 02.09.2013, 23:52
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Re: Gold Buying

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So you would prefer to trade gold to earn more fiat, than to use fiat to earn gold?

I think of gold like toilet paper (not the fiat currency kind). It's something that is not particulary perishable and so can be stored. If I find bog roll to be on sale I buy a lot of it becasue the price of bog roll has fallen with respect to CHF.

Gold at the recent bottom (as per the U.S.A. COMEX) was $1179.40 per troy ounce. That is around the cost of production, which depends on how much you are paying for your energy to extract the few ounces of gold per ton that counts as high grade ore these days. So gold at $500 is unreasonably cheap. I hate to think what would have to be going on to keep it at that price for long.

Keynesians and Austrians (such as Texaner) would agree on the basics of supply and demand. When something can only be sold at the price of production for a long time then companies cash flow starts to dry up and supply falls as production falls off.

Go and read up on what happened to Indian and Chinese demand for gold when it crashed. Are 3 billion Indians and Chinese wrong?

In the long run, over multi-decadal and even millennial time scales, Texaner is right. But that's not to say you can't make ounces of gold by trading in and out of the metal for dollars. The trick is to build up a core gold and silver stash over time that you will never sell for fiat.
The cost of producing gold is not a floor to its value, it's what a fool will pay, you believe a greater fool will pay more tomorrow, I am not so sure. Gold dropped well below 500 last time & took many years to recover, of course it's different this time........
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  #634  
Old 02.09.2013, 23:59
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Re: Gold Buying

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I have no idea what you're trying to say, but equities based on fiat currencies are no more safe that the fiat currencies they're based on.

Exactly what evidence do you have to support your assertion that gold 'is in a bubble'? (And while you're at it, kindly define what you mean ?
Equities valuations are based on earnings, if fiat currencies drop 100 times in value, goods will cost 100 times more, profits will be 100 times more & share price will be 100 times more. Gold had ZERO earnings so has no reason to increase 100 fold in the same scenario.

Little people are talking about investing in Gold & Property so it's likely to be in bubble territory Those same people are not interested in equities because they perceive higher risk, however look at any long period & equities win many times over.
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  #635  
Old 03.09.2013, 00:17
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Re: Gold Buying

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Oh, it's just fine until the fiat currency fails.

(Then you're left with less than nothing.)
it's just a question of timing. is currency going to be the first to collapse before bonds, stocks, property and gold? if not, you can easily switch and buy into the others after they collapse.

e.g. buy property and equities after they crash.
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  #636  
Old 03.09.2013, 00:19
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Re: Gold Buying

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The trick is to build up a core gold and silver stash over time that you will never sell for fiat.
and what exactly are you going to do with all this gold and silver? if you're never going to sell it, why not just burn your banknotes and save the effort of converting it into gold which you never use again?
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  #637  
Old 03.09.2013, 00:28
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Re: Gold Buying

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and what exactly are you going to do with all this gold and silver? if you're never going to sell it, why not just burn your banknotes and save the effort of converting it into gold which you never use again?
Collateral.
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  #638  
Old 03.09.2013, 00:36
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Re: Gold Buying

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Equities valuations are based on earnings, if fiat currencies drop 100 times in value, goods will cost 100 times more, profits will be 100 times more & share price will be 100 times more. Gold had ZERO earnings so has no reason to increase 100 fold in the same scenario.
Drop 100 times in value versus what?

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Little people are talking about investing in Gold & Property so it's likely to be in bubble territory Those same people are not interested in equities because they perceive higher risk, however look at any long period & equities win many times over.
Property yes, gold no. I thought an asset was in a bubble if a large enough proportion of wealth was invested in it. What is the size of the global property market, and what is the size of the global gold market?
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  #639  
Old 03.09.2013, 00:41
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Re: Gold Buying

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The cost of producing gold is not a floor to its value, it's what a fool will pay, you believe a greater fool will pay more tomorrow, I am not so sure. Gold dropped well below 500 last time & took many years to recover, of course it's different this time........
You're right, provided demand for the yellow stuff can be satisfied by shifting around the existing bullion, melting down jewellery, etc.

But that's not the case at the moment, would you not agree?
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  #640  
Old 03.09.2013, 00:46
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Re: Gold Buying

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it's just a question of timing. is currency going to be the first to collapse before bonds, stocks, property and gold? if not, you can easily switch and buy into the others after they collapse.

e.g. buy property and equities after they crash.
I largely agree. But I wouldn't like to move everything out of one asset class and into another. I like the idea of leaving a core position behind, hopefully accumulated around a period of low prices.
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