Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #801  
Old 14.03.2014, 15:57
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,563
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,368 Times in 10,224 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
What happens if Putin tells the West that in future they will have to pay for Russian oil and gas with gold?

Well, I suppose one of the first things will be that Angela Merkel will have an accident in her knickers.
She lays golden eggs
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #802  
Old 14.03.2014, 19:00
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
She lays golden eggs
Not without gold. "Germany's" gold is absent and unaccounted for.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
  #803  
Old 14.03.2014, 19:31
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
(FMF's answer: The price of gold will go down LOL )
You clearly believe that it's a one way bet, you should know perfectly well no such bet exits. When it's the general opinion of informed people it's likely to be wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #804  
Old 15.03.2014, 10:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
You clearly believe that it's a one way bet, you should know perfectly well no such bet exits. When it's the general opinion of informed people it's likely to be wrong.
I think it's more because I'm not convinced in the continued power of "pretty pieces of colourful paper", which by the way are getting more dubious with every day that passes.
With you my problem is understanding why someone who obviously knows a lot about finance etc. can be so blind to the obvious global problems that are approaching. Latest news is that US T-bonds are being unloaded by the boat full.
Reply With Quote
  #805  
Old 15.03.2014, 11:18
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I think it's more because I'm not convinced in the continued power of "pretty pieces of colourful paper", which by the way are getting more dubious with every day that passes.
With you my problem is understanding why someone who obviously knows a lot about finance etc. can be so blind to the obvious global problems that are approaching. Latest news is that US T-bonds are being unloaded by the boat full.
i had also concerns as to whether the dollar would decline in value given the extensive QE and debt overhang. so far, not much seems to have materialised.

the US still has very strong industries and companies that will underpin the dollar.
Reply With Quote
  #806  
Old 15.03.2014, 13:47
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,563
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,368 Times in 10,224 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I think it's more because I'm not convinced in the continued power of "pretty pieces of colourful paper", which by the way are getting more dubious with every day that passes.
With you my problem is understanding why someone who obviously knows a lot about finance etc. can be so blind to the obvious global problems that are approaching. Latest news is that US T-bonds are being unloaded by the boat full.
About "Latest news is that US T-bonds are being unloaded by the boat full" - rumoured to be by the Russians before the US freezes/confiscates them
Reply With Quote
  #807  
Old 16.03.2014, 07:21
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Good observation. But there are others....

Quote:
View Post
All governments own gold , so if the price is manipulated it's manipulated up......so expect huge falls when their support ends.
Quote:
View Post
It all depends how the money was invested afterwards, the Swiss were also selling gold at the same time iirc.
Does this imply that the Swiss by SELLING ca. 1000 tonnes of gold were manipulating the price UPWARDS?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank spalebärg for this useful post:
  #808  
Old 16.03.2014, 08:53
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Good observation. But there are others....





Does this imply that the Swiss by SELLING ca. 1000 tonnes of gold were manipulating the price UPWARDS?
Talk of Selling caused interest & further talk, which in itself manipulates the market.

For someone who claimed earlier in this thread does not pay any wealth tax & declares all his assets, I don't think you understand how markets work, you pay too much attention to noise,



Business produce profits which grow over time, gold produces nothing, which explains why long them the Dow Jones has beaten it many many times. Did they teach you about compound interest rated at school? There is a connection, if you understand the concept it can be used to your advantage.

Edit, from Wikipedia, I think this illustrates the point of productive assets v non productive.
'In his book Basic Economics, Thomas Sowell[63] argued that, in the long-term, gold's high volatility when compared to stocks and bonds, means that gold does not hold its value compared to stocks and bonds:
To take an extreme example [of price volatility], while a dollar invested in bonds in 1801 would be worth nearly a thousand dollars by 1998, a dollar invested in stocks that same year would be worth more than half a million dollars in real terms. Meanwhile, a dollar invested in gold in 1801 would by 1998 be worth just 78 cents.'

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 16.03.2014 at 09:20.
Reply With Quote
  #809  
Old 16.03.2014, 17:03
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
...you pay too much attention to my noise...
Fixed that for you.

Quote:
View Post
...Did they teach you about compound interest rated at school?...
Did they not teach you that inflation can more than negate any perceived gain supposedly made by compound interest?

Did they teach you that, thanks to the deliberate inflation policies of the US government and it's central bank, the US dollar is worth about 5 cents or less compared to its 1913 buying power?

Apparently they taught you that governments can indefinitely eliminate their debt problems by creating more debt with impunity and without damaging their economies, and you believed them (pay no attention to the historical examples of Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Estonia, France, Georgia, Germany (Weimar), Greece, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, North Korea, Nicaragua, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Soviet Union, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zimbabwe behind the curtain!).
__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant

Last edited by Texaner; 16.03.2014 at 17:52.
Reply With Quote
  #810  
Old 16.03.2014, 18:23
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Fixed that for you.


Did they not teach you that inflation can more than negate any perceived gain supposedly made by compound interest?

Did they teach you that, thanks to the deliberate inflation policies of the US government and it's central bank, the US dollar is worth about 5 cents or less compared to its 1913 buying power?

Apparently they taught you that governments can indefinitely eliminate their debt problems by creating more debt with impunity and without damaging their economies, and you believed them (pay no attention to the historical examples of Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Estonia, France, Georgia, Germany (Weimar), Greece, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, North Korea, Nicaragua, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Soviet Union, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zimbabwe behind the curtain!).
You just need to look at what I wrote just before you replied.

1 dollar in gold became 78 cents
1 dollar in bonds became 1000 dollars
1 dollar in stocks became 500k

You may prefer 78 cents but I will take the 500k

The Dow Jones industrial index was at 66 in 1900
It closed on Friday at 16,067.67 that's an increase of 243.45 times. Yes the dollar has dropped you say to a 1/20 since 1913 but so what? The Dow jones also paid a dividend each year & the capital grew 10 fold more than the loss of spending power. Had you reinvested those dividends you would have had more.

Companies increase prices during inflation, so their profits grow & so do their share prices.........

Why would you hold cash? I know most of CH pensions are cash but I don't like pensions too restricting.
Reply With Quote
  #811  
Old 16.03.2014, 19:44
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
You just need to look at what I wrote just before you replied...
Wrong. My post had nothing to do with comparing gold to fiat currency — it was about fiat currency alone.

YOU just need to look at the historical record: Fiat currencies that aren't managed responsibly, but are driven into hyperinflation by government printing presses, will inevitably undergo massive, painful 'corrections' at the expense of the public that unwittingly relies on them as a form of 'money'. Being 'the United States' is by no means a permanent exemption.

It's a real-world, historically corroborated fact, as unequivocally demonstrated by the likes of Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Estonia, France, Georgia, Germany (Weimar), Greece, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, North Korea, Nicaragua, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Soviet Union, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zimbabwe.

You can go on parroting your anti-gold broken record all you want, but your addiction to fiat currency — especially the US dollar — cannot end well, as long as inflation continues at its current levels. The music will stop, and the available chairs will be few — and already reserved by the major players (i.e., not you).
__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant
Reply With Quote
  #812  
Old 16.03.2014, 19:59
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Wrong. My post had nothing to do with comparing gold to fiat currency — it was about fiat currency alone.

YOU just need to look at the historical record: Fiat currencies that aren't managed responsibly, but are driven into hyperinflation by government printing presses, will inevitably undergo massive, painful 'corrections' at the expense of the public that unwittingly relies on them as a form of 'money'. Being 'the United States' is by no means a permanent exemption.

It's a real-world, historically corroborated fact, as unequivocally demonstrated by the likes of Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Estonia, France, Georgia, Germany (Weimar), Greece, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, North Korea, Nicaragua, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Soviet Union, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zimbabwe.

You can go on parroting your anti-gold broken record all you want, but your addiction to fiat currency — especially the US dollar — cannot end well, as long as inflation continues at its current levels. The music will stop, and the available chairs will be few — and already reserved by the major players (i.e., not you).
So what? the stock market has repeatedly had a better return than gold, not bothered about fiat currencies........as stocks values are based on future estimated earnings.....Buy stocks with borrowed money & you would do even better. I don't wish to hold cash, except to spend in the near term, However fiat cash has outperformed gold for a few years now

Out of interest what is your average buy price of Gold? I did invest in once at $75, I sold over 30 years ago & did very well, preferred the stock market ever since.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 16.03.2014 at 20:09.
Reply With Quote
  #813  
Old 18.03.2014, 07:22
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

So where is all this inflation your talking about? I don't think salaries are spiralling out of control either.
Anyway Gold has not kept up with inflation since 1980, stocks have done very much better in both real terms and good old fashioned USD.
Reply With Quote
  #814  
Old 18.03.2014, 08:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
So where is all this inflation your talking about? I don't think salaries are spiralling out of control either.
Anyway Gold has not kept up with inflation since 1980, stocks have done very much better in both real terms and good old fashioned USD.
I consider your choice of using 1980 as your starting point disingenuous. And I'm sure you know why.
Reply With Quote
  #815  
Old 18.03.2014, 09:12
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I consider your choice of using 1980 as your starting point disingenuous. And I'm sure you know why.

Use 2012 if you prefer, even worse in real terms
Reply With Quote
  #816  
Old 18.03.2014, 23:35
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
So where is all this inflation your talking about?...
You're apparently too busy mindlessly cranking out (ad nauseam) repetitions of your pro-dollar, pro-stock-market mantra to have any leftover energy or intelligence to explore the realities of inflation — so instead you blithely ask 'where is it?'???

Good luck with that.

Quote:
View Post
...Anyway Gold has not kept up with inflation...
So where is all this inflation you're talking about?

I smelled a troll a long time ago in this thread. You'll prove it — again — with your next inevitable vacuous 'snappy come-back' post, mindlessly extolling the almighty fiat dollar, mindlessly disparaging gold, mindlessly questioning inflation, mindlessly praising the stock market, or some mindless combination of them all. And I deliberately use the term 'mindless' because you've so far demonstrated yourself more about dispensing (dutifully memorized?) sound bites than pursuing intelligent dialogue.

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it once more (for the sake of other readers of this thread, not for you): Time will tell what has lasting value. No flurry of impatient, one-dimensional sound bites posted to this forum will ever change that.
__________________
"Live every day as if it were going to be your last; for one day you're sure to be right." — Harry Morant
Reply With Quote
  #817  
Old 19.03.2014, 00:19
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,563
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,368 Times in 10,224 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

It seems the regulators who investigated things like LIBOR price fixing and foreign exchange price fixing are now turning their attention to Gold pricing.

Will be interesting to see what comes out; assuming major forces like the Fed are unable to block this investigation
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #818  
Old 19.03.2014, 05:37
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
You're apparently too busy mindlessly cranking out (ad nauseam) repetitions of your pro-dollar, pro-stock-market mantra to have any leftover energy or intelligence to explore the realities of inflation — so instead you blithely ask 'where is it?'???

Good luck with that.


So where is all this inflation you're talking about?

I smelled a troll a long time ago in this thread. You'll prove it — again — with your next inevitable vacuous 'snappy come-back' post, mindlessly extolling the almighty fiat dollar, mindlessly disparaging gold, mindlessly questioning inflation, mindlessly praising the stock market, or some mindless combination of them all. And I deliberately use the term 'mindless' because you've so far demonstrated yourself more about dispensing (dutifully memorized?) sound bites than pursuing intelligent dialogue.

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it once more (for the sake of other readers of this thread, not for you): Time will tell what has lasting value. No flurry of impatient, one-dimensional sound bites posted to this forum will ever change that.
I don't advocate holding cash of any sorts, I prefer to partially own companies that are valued in USD, remind me what is gold valued in

You never answered the question about your buying price of gold, I assume it's rather high or you don't have any skin in the game.
Reply With Quote
  #819  
Old 19.03.2014, 07:12
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
I smelled a troll a long time ago in this thread. You'll prove it — again — with your next inevitable vacuous 'snappy come-back' post, mindlessly extolling the almighty fiat dollar, mindlessly disparaging gold, mindlessly questioning inflation, mindlessly praising the stock market, or some mindless combination of them all. And I deliberately use the term 'mindless' because you've so far demonstrated yourself more about dispensing (dutifully memorized?) sound bites than pursuing intelligent dialogue.
I don't advocate holding cash of any sorts, I prefer to partially own companies that are valued in USD, remind me what is gold valued in
I rest my case.
Reply With Quote
  #820  
Old 19.03.2014, 08:57
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,947
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,165 Times in 11,495 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I rest my case.
Continually avoiding to answer what your buying price was, or if you even have skin in the game is far more revealing of what is going on here.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gold, swiss franc




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOLD - Int'l recognition of swiss gold coins? Uncle GroOve Finance/banking/taxation 19 19.08.2011 18:04
Buying gold in Zurich Tiger Other/general 27 07.11.2010 14:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0