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-   -   Gold Buying (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/56976-gold-buying.html)

Cashboy 27.07.2009 07:51

Gold Buying
 
Please can somebody tell me where to buy physical gold bars in Switzerland and how does one find the price of them?

Verbier 27.07.2009 08:39

Re: Gold Buying
 
Link to prices of gold bars from UBS. These are indications only as they will give you the up to the minute quote when you are in the bank. There are two prices. One to buy gold and one to sell gold (same idea of a spread as when you buy/sell currency).

https://wb1.ubs.com/fin/pub/gvu/quot...s_instruments/

Most large branches of USB and the other banks will have gold bars they can sell you. Check with the main branch in Lugano.

If you are with a smaller branch, they may have to order in the gold, depending on what you need.

dino 27.07.2009 16:01

Re: Gold Buying
 
think through carefully before you acquire metal. most people are better served by acquiring gold funds, or trade online, or even buy gold futures.

there are few good reasons for buying physical gold if you are not a goldsmith, which i suspect you are not...

or a central banker, which I am certain you are not

monkeyboy76 27.07.2009 16:34

Re: Gold Buying
 
A friend of mine mentioned a website bullion vault [1] for buying/trading gold.

I read somewhere, I think on that website, that if you acquire gold bars and were to take them home, leaving them on the TV to look cool or something, when you come to sell them again you will need to have them assayed to ensure that they are of a decent quality. If left in a vault the whole time there is no need for this analysis as it's known that they could not have been tampered with.

So I would second Dino's thoughts and say that sticking with an online trading account is probably your best option.

Cheers


[1] http://www.bullionvault.com/
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgical_assay

dino 28.07.2009 11:13

Re: Gold Buying
 
Cashboy - since you are most likely interested in 'investing' in gold, check out gold ETFs (exchange traded funds) like GLD and IAU if you can access the US markets. If not, I am sure the larger Swiss banks offer similar products...

Goldtop 28.07.2009 20:03

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 505458)
Cashboy - since you are most likely interested in 'investing' in gold, check out gold ETFs (exchange traded funds) like GLD and IAU if you can access the US markets. If not, I am sure the larger Swiss banks offer similar products...

ZKB (Zürcher Kantonal Bank) has a very popular Gold-ETF that is physically backed and denominated in CHF. You can buy this ETF through any bank or broker.

BeastOfBodmin 28.07.2009 20:59

Re: Gold Buying
 
Julius Bär also have the "Physical Gold" ETF.

p42 28.07.2009 22:49

Re: Gold Buying
 
My advice is to pop into UBS, put down your cash, and walk out with the real stuff. The spread is quite reasonable, and you can hire a safety deposit box at the bank or a post office. Two former colleagues took this approach, despite my scoffs at the time, and did ok.

If you have sold the house, and want to do this with serious amounts, UBS (and no doubt others) will give you interest on your physical deposits.

With interest rates in some currencies so poor, getting a non-negative return on a physical, and not having to worry about storage costs, has to be better than some dodgy off shore fund.

If you are worried about UBS going bust, you could pick up some cheap put options as a hedge. Vols have dropped off a bit lately.

Confloozed 29.07.2009 09:41

Re: Gold Buying
 
Kantonal bank in SZ, and I am pretty sure all Kantonal banks do the same, sell gold by the bar and by the coin. All bars come with a certificate of authenticity. They will sell them to you and charge "tax". It's really not so bad. And they will buy them back from you. But they won't buy bars they didn't isssue to you, ie from UBS or from the attic. They also won't fax you a price list, or give quotes over the phone. They will write them down for you if you are coming into the bank. As gold is an international commodity, it's traded almost 24/7, so the price changes as fast as currency/forex prices.
It is alot less "complicated" then trading online, and it's kind of tax free. When you trade online there's forms and it's there when you need to do you taxes. If you buy a bar of gold, hold it, then sell it for cash, then it's up to you if it's taxable or not. You can buy from the gram to the kilo (that would be an interesting transaction). The coins they have to order and take about a week to arrive. Unless you see yourself in Bern, where they are minted.
However, if you go online, say Ebay, you'll notice something I thought was a bit strange...Turkish gold is always cheaper. Why is that? I asked some bankers and they told me something to the effect that it's industry is possibly subsidized. When you buy like this though, I don't know, if purchased from a bank in Turkey, with say proper certification, you can re sell them? It appears that when gold is sold on Ebay, they bid right up to the market price of the day. If you were thinking of buying alot it might make for an interesting road trip.
OTherwise, kantonal bank is the easiest solution, or probably any bank in the S Land.

Verbier 29.07.2009 09:53

Re: Gold Buying
 
If you are looking for a paper option but backed by physical gold, there is the Perth Mint Program. It is highly recommended by Doug Casey out of the USA.

http://www.pmcg.com.au/

dino 30.07.2009 09:28

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confloozed (Post 506153)
...Turkish gold is always cheaper. Why is that? I asked some bankers and they told me something to the effect that it's industry is possibly subsidized.

I'm sorry but that's the biggest load of cr@p i've heard all week..

I never had a high regard for bankers, but anyone that told you that should be locked up for terminal stupidity. There is no such thing as cheap gold. but of course there is fake gold, and of course there is a sucker born every minute ...

Sada 30.07.2009 10:03

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashboy (Post 504486)
Please can somebody tell me where to buy physical gold bars in Switzerland and how does one find the price of them?

Do you mind me asking what you wanna do with those gold bars Cashboy?

Cashboy 30.07.2009 10:32

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sada (Post 507114)
Do you mind me asking what you wanna do with those gold bars Cashboy?

I have clients that are worried about the long term real value of cash.

We have looked at what we would term "Gold on Paper" but not even so sure of the security of these companies that offer that service and there are paper work transactions.

With the USB and USA government fiasco on banking secrecy; governemnet monitoring of money transactions with the excuse of "preventing terrorism", inevitable tax rises; likely taxes on wealth(capital) in USA and UK in the future, we are looking at alternative security of wealth.

They are therefore looking at Gold to be kept in safe deposit boxes that is accessable by members of their family etc etc.
That was the reason I was asking about safe deposit boxes held in the names of companies as opposed individuals in another posting.

Gold is very high at the moment but expect it to fall in August and perhaps buy in September when all the traders, bankers come back from holiday and realsise the real state of the economy.

Confloozed 30.07.2009 23:43

Re: Gold Buying
 
"Gold is very high at the moment but expect it to fall in August and perhaps buy in September when all the traders, bankers come back from holiday and realsise the real state of the economy."

And what would that be, do you know? If you did... No company in this world is making long term forecasts, because no one really knows. Forex is a tricky play, but gold can go down. Just having cash sit, is like burning off little pieces of it, month by month. There are loads of better "secure" options to hedge against dollar deflation. And turn a percentage.
Switzerland favors a certain postion against the euro and the dollar; you should read up on that if you want stability. But holding metals, is not a 100 percent gauranteed bet.
As far as the comment about the Turkish gold, it's not just from bankers I have heard this. But I was just stating what I heard, I am not loaded up with Turkish gold and a pirate hat laughing at the Swiss banking system.

Confloozed 30.07.2009 23:50

Re: Gold Buying
 
Also "We have looked at what we would term "Gold on Paper" but not even so sure of the security of these companies that offer that service and there are paper work transactions.

With the USB and USA government fiasco on banking secrecy; governemnet monitoring of money transactions with the excuse of "preventing terrorism", inevitable tax rises; likely taxes on wealth(capital) in USA and UK in the future, we are looking at alternative security of wealth."
Why is that a fiasco? Americans trying to get out paying taxes, and a company trying to oblige Swiss privacy laws. I don't think it has anything to do with preventing terrorism, in that case they flat out seize property/accounts. It's about getting their money they are owed to build roads and invade foreign countries. I think all businesses, that are legitimate, should be able to survive and work well with out stashing their cash to avoid taxes. It sounds more like you are talking about a form of laundering. Which is a bit odd, to do it over a public forum.

Cashboy 31.07.2009 06:01

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 504926)
think through carefully before you acquire metal. most people are better served by acquiring gold funds, or trade online, or even buy gold futures.

I understand exactly what you are saying.

The trouble with Gold funds and buying future. They are:
(1) Paper Transactions traceable with money moving from accounts.
(2) Being only on paper, the asset is not there and my clients are concerned of actual physical existence.

As I have stated, Gold is too high at the moment, but if everything crashes, Gold may then seem to have been cheap.

Cashboy 31.07.2009 06:13

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by p42 (Post 506007)
My advice is to pop into UBS, put down your cash, and walk out with the real stuff. The spread is quite reasonable, and you can hire a safety deposit box at the bank or a post office. Two former colleagues took this approach, despite my scoffs at the time, and did ok..

This is exactly what I am thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by p42 (Post 506007)
With interest rates in some currencies so poor, getting a non-negative return on a physical, and not having to worry about storage costs, has to be better than some dodgy off shore fund...

I believe that Interest rates will be low for at lesst the next three years.
Countries will start charging Wealth Tax (Capital Tax) like Switzerland so Interest Received less Tax Paid on disclosed capital will be negligible.

On death, if this asset on paper doesn't exist, one can avoid Inheritance Tax/Death Tax on this asset.


Quote:

Originally Posted by p42 (Post 506007)
If you are worried about UBS going bust, you could pick up some cheap put options as a hedge. Vols have dropped off a bit lately.

Maybe one is becoming paranoid but I really see things getting worse and staying flat for the next three years unless we generate more "Cash" and we know that Cash = Debt and debt will devalue money against Gold as it has done.

Cashboy 31.07.2009 06:27

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confloozed (Post 507845)
"Gold is very high at the moment but expect it to fall in August and perhaps buy in September when all the traders, bankers come back from holiday and realsise the real state of the economy.

And what would that be, do you know? If you did... No company in this world is making long term forecasts, because no one really knows. Forex is a tricky play, but gold can go down. Just having cash sit, is like burning off little pieces of it, month by month. There are loads of better "secure" options to hedge against dollar deflation. And turn a percentage.
Switzerland favors a certain postion against the euro and the dollar; you should read up on that if you want stability. But holding metals, is not a 100 percent gauranteed bet.

You will see that Gold already fell a bit since I posted that satement.
Let us watch the price between now and say the middle of September and then onwards to December.
I might be wrong; and that is exactly the point I am making; it is not safe unless you are playing the markets and we have our businesses to run rather than sit on the screen day trading.

And before one suggests that I get an Investment Trader/Manger to 'play' with the money; I would suggest people look at the performance of their funds over the last 15 years. The only people who made money were the people who sold those Investment? Plans and the people who traded the funds in those policies.

deutschmaad 31.07.2009 07:42

Re: Gold Buying
 
"Gold is very high at the moment but expect it to fall in August and perhaps buy in September when all the traders, bankers come back from holiday and realsise the real state of the economy."

My brother just finished his degree in finance, we were just talking about this the other day actually, he said that now is not a good time to buy gold. As everyone is doing it,as stocks and shares/property are not a good investment at the moment.
Maybe wait until the market picks up, then when the price is low, swoop in..?

Cashboy 31.07.2009 07:51

Re: Gold Buying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deutschmaad (Post 507902)
"Gold is very high at the moment but expect it to fall in August and perhaps buy in September when all the traders, bankers come back from holiday and realsise the real state of the economy."

My brother just finished his degree in finance, we were just talking about this the other day actually, he said that now is not a good time to buy gold. As everyone is doing it,as stocks and shares/property are not a good investment at the moment.
Maybe wait until the market picks up, then when the price is low, swoop in..?

You are correct in that Gold is very high at the moment.
It has fallen a bit in the last week and might fall lower as people trade in Gold to get on the band-wagon of investing in shares.

In my opinion the shares are far too high at the moment and I would like to understand the reason. I think the shares will fall in September and so will commodities. I know Gold is a commodity but it is not a normal commodity because it is bought for financial safety.


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