Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.09.2009, 18:08
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
RobFish3 has no particular reputation at present
Kinderzulage (child allowance)

I worked some years ago in Zurich for 18 mths, and received kinderzulage for the children, who were back in the UK. The process of registering seemed relatively painless. I'm now back in Zurich and have applied again. However this time I have been asked to fill in EU form E411 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010047.pdf) . See final few pages for the English version. Has the situation changed recently with regard to qualification? It seems like I have to get a letter from the benefits authorities in the UK to say that I am not claiming there, and that I qualify for benefit payments under the UK interpretation of requirement. Has anyone got experience of filling an E411 and who would I get a certificate from to say that i wasn't claiming anything, or my wife wasn't claiming anything.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01.09.2009, 20:18
kodokan's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Phoenix AZ, USA
Posts: 1,299
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 930 Times in 460 Posts
kodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage

Quote:
View Post
I worked some years ago in Zurich for 18 mths, and received kinderzulage for the children, who were back in the UK. The process of registering seemed relatively painless. I'm now back in Zurich and have applied again. However this time I have been asked to fill in EU form E411 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010047.pdf) . See final few pages for the English version. Has the situation changed recently with regard to qualification? It seems like I have to get a letter from the benefits authorities in the UK to say that I am not claiming there, and that I qualify for benefit payments under the UK interpretation of requirement. Has anyone got experience of filling an E411 and who would I get a certificate from to say that i wasn't claiming anything, or my wife wasn't claiming anything.
Don't know about the form you mention - hubby's work sorted all the paperwork out - but we had to provide a letter from the UK Child Benefit people, to prove we weren't double claiming. They should send you one automatically some time after you've de-registered, but give them a ring and a nudge if you haven't had one after a few weeks.

Edit: just re-reading your post - is your wife staying in the UK with the children? If so, and she's not working, then claiming Child Benefit will also entitle her to a credit of that year's National Insurance contributions towards her State Pension. If any of the kids are under 6, then she also gets a credit for the State Second Pension. So do the maths, and see which country works out best if you have a choice of where to claim (not sure if you do or not).

kodokan
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:08
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
RobFish3 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Yes my wife is in the UK, and no we do not qualify in the UK for Child Benefit. We have never had dealings with the child benefit agency. From what you say is it a case that you have to qualify for benefit in your country of residence before you can claim in Switzerland ?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:10
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
RobFish3 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Also what do you mean by "de-registered", again does this mean that you were claiming in the UK before you arrived ?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:12
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,757
Groaned at 81 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,642 Times in 1,188 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Yes, the process has changed as I also experienced. We didn't have any problems though getting the E411 stamped in the other country. They knew exactly which box to tick were. This wasn't the UK though...

And after we had the E411 form signed, we had no problems getting the Kinderzulage here in CH.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:23
kodokan's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Phoenix AZ, USA
Posts: 1,299
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 930 Times in 460 Posts
kodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Quote:
View Post
Yes my wife is in the UK, and no we do not qualify in the UK for Child Benefit. We have never had dealings with the child benefit agency.
Are you thinking of the means-tested Child Tax Credit? (or whatever they're calling it this week...). The one that's only for people with combined incomes under about 60k?

Child Benefit is for everyone who has kids under 16 (or older if still in full-time education). It's not means-tested: it's currently 20 for the first child, and 13.20 for each additional child. The amounts are weekly. You get given a form when your baby's born, and start claiming straight away. Most people set it up to come into a bank account 4-weekly, but it can also be paid in cash via the Post Office. It's usually paid in the mother's name, but can be in the name of either parent.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/index.htm

Surely you must have been claiming this since your kids were born..?

This is the thing you need to deregister for, in order to claim Kinderzulage here in Switzerland - which again, is for everyone and not means-tested.

BUT... I don't know if it can be claimed if your kids are staying in the UK.

AND... like I said before, if your wife is non-working and receiving Child Benefit in her name, she will also be benefitting from a credit each year towards her State Pension (and you only need 30 years now for a full pension). Paying voluntary contributions to replace this would cost around 600 a year.

AND... if you have any kids under 6, then a non-working wife will also be credited with an 'earnings related' State Second Pension, equivalent to if she was earning around 11-12k a year.

The pension credits are from something called 'Home Responsibilities Protection': http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/...ed/homeres.asp

So if you have the choice of claiming in either country, do the maths carefully. We didn't as I'm resident here with the kids, but for me (non-working wife, two kids, one under 6) it would have been a total no-brainer to stick with the UK scheme.

Hope this helps!

kodokan

Last edited by kodokan; 02.09.2009 at 14:26. Reason: Forgot links, as always
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:28
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,757
Groaned at 81 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,642 Times in 1,188 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

If you work in one country and your wife and kids are in another they may or may not be elligeble in that country for some kind of benefit. If they receive such benefit but they are lower than the one they would be getting in Switzerland, you are entitled to the difference here in Switzerland.


The UK authorities would then fill in the amount they get in the UK on the E411 form and then the Swiss authorities pay you the difference (well your employer but you get the drift).


Quote:
View Post
So if you have the choice of claiming in either country, do the maths carefully. We didn't as I'm resident here with the kids, but for me (non-working wife, two kids, one under 6) it would have been a total no-brainer to stick with the UK scheme.

Hope this helps!

kodokan
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:39
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
RobFish3 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Kodokan --- Oh that one, oops, yes we do get that one. That sort of fell off the radar, since my wife deals with it. From what you say we would have to de-register that one, and reregister it in Switzerland. Hmmmm. Would have to talk to the wife re. the financials of doing that. Thanx for the heads-up, and brain poke. Seems that we probably don't qualify then
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:47
kodokan's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Phoenix AZ, USA
Posts: 1,299
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 930 Times in 460 Posts
kodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Quote:
View Post
Kodokan --- Oh that one, oops, yes we do get that one. That sort of fell off the radar, since my wife deals with it.
Oh good - otherwise you would have lost a heck of a lot of money to date!

Tilia's suggestion's interesting, if I'm reading it right: does it say that your wife could claim CB in the UK whilst you claim the balance between CB and Kinderzulage here in Switzerland..? That would have worked very well for me - I would have got 143 a month for 2 kids from CB, against the 400 chfs we get here. So I could have claimed the 143, hubby would have got around another 100 quid a month by having it topped up to the equivalent of 400 chfs, AND I could have kept all the pension credits!

Not an option for us anyway, but useful if anyone else can take advantage of the system. Doesn't the Swiss system mind where the kids are resident, just that the wage earner has some kids, somewhere in the world..?

kodokan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:57
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,757
Groaned at 81 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,642 Times in 1,188 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

I don't think it is as simple as that. Swiss authorities don't want to pay more than they have to. So they will want you to get what you are eligeble from in the UK and only the difference in Switzerland.


Quote:
View Post
Kodokan --- Oh that one, oops, yes we do get that one. That sort of fell off the radar, since my wife deals with it. From what you say we would have to de-register that one, and reregister it in Switzerland. Hmmmm. Would have to talk to the wife re. the financials of doing that. Thanx for the heads-up, and brain poke. Seems that we probably don't qualify then
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02.09.2009, 14:59
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,757
Groaned at 81 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,642 Times in 1,188 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Yes, that is correct. At least for EU. Kids outside of EU may or may not have separate rules.

All this is, as far as I remember, well documented on the internet btw if you want to know the exact rules ;-)


Quote:
View Post
Doesn't the Swiss system mind where the kids are resident, just that the wage earner has some kids, somewhere in the world..?

kodokan
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 23.01.2010, 21:33
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 50
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
shipnil has made some interesting contributions
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Hi,

I have a question regarding this child allowance. I am non-EU national. I came to Switzerland in July 09 and my wife and daughter joined me in October. My employer has asked me to fill the SVA form. My question is, whether I am eligible to claim this from July 09 or from October 09?

Even if the baby was not with me, she was still a dependent to me.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 23.01.2010, 21:42
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,757
Groaned at 81 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,642 Times in 1,188 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

It depends which non-EU country you are from. Here is the official info:

http://www.svazurich.ch/pdf/merkblat...t=%22_blank%22


Quote:
View Post
Hi,

I have a question regarding this child allowance. I am non-EU national. I came to Switzerland in July 09 and my wife and daughter joined me in October. My employer has asked me to fill the SVA form. My question is, whether I am eligible to claim this from July 09 or from October 09?

Even if the baby was not with me, she was still a dependent to me.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 25.01.2010, 17:45
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BostonMan has no particular reputation at present
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Hi!

I am investigating possible employment in Switzerland and have three children based in the USA. I was planning not to bring them to Switzerland during the trial period at the employer. Could I collect child allowances during this period? Unfortunately I do not read German. I do read French and in fact am an EU and US citizen.

Many thanks,

Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 25.01.2010, 17:54
kayo's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 91
Groaned at 11 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 30 Posts
kayo is considered knowledgeablekayo is considered knowledgeablekayo is considered knowledgeable
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

A Related Question....

I live in Zurich, but am still a "US" employee i.e. still paid in the US in USD. Am I eligible for applying for the "Child allowance" for my daughter? Or do I have to be a "Swiss" employee of my company for this purpose?

Could someone clarify?

Thanx.

KO
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 21.06.2010, 10:17
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 138
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 56 Times in 41 Posts
kb92830 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Just to add, if the form E411 is to be validated in the UK do not send the form yourself as they will send it directly to Geneva and not back to your. Just complete the form and submit it to the HR department who will then send it to Geneva for them to submit. Just saves it getting lost.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01.10.2010, 11:47
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oberwallis
Posts: 137
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 38 Times in 22 Posts
Penelopy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Quote:
View Post
This is the thing you need to deregister for, in order to claim Kinderzulage here in Switzerland - which again, is for everyone and not means-tested...
Kinderzulage is not for everyone and is means tested. I get it because I am self employed and I have to pay 3.3% of my annual income to get it. As soon as my income drops below about 5000 chf a year, the Kinderzulage ceases. My friend in also English and self employed but paying 3.3% of her income would be a little more expensive than the Kinderzulage is worth. So, whilst she contributes to the economy she receives no Kinderzulage back, whilst someone who earns far more but is employed (or whose spouse is), gets it regardless.

Also, I don't think receipt of Kinderzulage means deregistering from Child Beneift. For me, it is the equivalent of the Child Tax Credit. It's that that one would need to deregister from. Child Benefit is for everyone in the UK under 18 whilst that is not the same for Kinderzulage in CH.

Last edited by Longbyt; 01.10.2010 at 12:07. Reason: let's see if the quote works for me
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01.10.2010, 12:08
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,130
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Hope the quote is right now - sorry if I left the wrong bit. Shout if it's wrong and I'll correct it.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01.10.2010, 12:10
kodokan's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Phoenix AZ, USA
Posts: 1,299
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 930 Times in 460 Posts
kodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond reputekodokan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Quote:
View Post
Kinderzulage is not for everyone and is means tested. I get it because I am self employed and I have to pay 3.3% of my annual income to get it. As soon as my income drops below about 5000 chf a year, the Kinderzulage ceases. My friend in also English and self employed but paying 3.3% of her income would be a little more expensive than the Kinderzulage is worth. So, whilst she contributes to the economy she receives no Kinderzulage back, whilst someone who earns far more but is employed (or whose spouse is), gets it regardless.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Also, I don't think receipt of Kinderzulage means deregistering from Child Beneift. For me, it is the equivalent of the Child Tax Credit. It's that that one would need to deregister from. Child Benefit is for everyone in the UK under 18 whilst that is not the same for Kinderzulage in CH.
Yes, you're right, the rules are a bit different for self-employed people. It also depends on the canton - in Vaud, for example, the tax deduction rate is 1.3% for 2010 rather than the 3.3% you're paying (sorry...).

I think the Kinderzulage 'ceases' below a certain income level because an individual child can only be named once for receipt of Kinderzulage, or as part of unemployment benefit, etc - I guess those on lower incomes are still receiving a sum of money towards children but it just has a different name/ code.

I can see why you'd consider it a bit like UK Child Tax Credit in your self-employed situation, but just to clarify for others - assuming you are salaried with kids, you will be eligible for Kinderzulage here at a set amount per canton, and you cannot claim UK Child Benefit at the same time.
__________________
'Chance favours only the prepared mind.'
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25.06.2012, 22:10
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
bradley has no particular reputation at present
Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Quote:
View Post
Just to add, if the form E411 is to be validated in the UK do not send the form yourself as they will send it directly to Geneva and not back to your. Just complete the form and submit it to the HR department who will then send it to Geneva for them to submit. Just saves it getting lost.
My HR has exactly the opposite view to this! I sent the completed form E411 to them, for forwarding to Geneva, but was told they want my wife in UK to get the form, have it completed there and then send to CH. My employer would then not have to pay me Family Allowance here, as CB going to the UK. Doing it that way around means the benefit is paid to her, not me. No probs with that, as she did get the CB before I moved to CH. My kids are now in full time education, and all over 18, so no UK benefit, but this is where the CH/UK differential comes in and they all qualify for CH benefit until 25 if still in education.
Can my HR decide which way around the form is sent (from CH to UK, or UK to CH?). Why can't I send it directly to the Child Benefit office, without my HR having any say in what I do with it?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
family benefit, kindergeld, kinderzulage




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Holiday allowance? noni Employment 33 11.02.2018 10:33
Child Allowance question Indianguy Finance/banking/taxation 2 29.12.2008 23:27
Child in school fight - possible injury to other child swisscath Family matters/health 16 29.05.2008 13:08
Birth Allowance jayvanamoju Family matters/health 22 25.02.2008 18:12
living allowance johntaggert Employment 8 25.01.2007 08:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0