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Old 01.09.2009, 17:08
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Kinderzulage (child allowance)

I worked some years ago in Zurich for 18 mths, and received kinderzulage for the children, who were back in the UK. The process of registering seemed relatively painless. I'm now back in Zurich and have applied again. However this time I have been asked to fill in EU form E411 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010047.pdf) . See final few pages for the English version. Has the situation changed recently with regard to qualification? It seems like I have to get a letter from the benefits authorities in the UK to say that I am not claiming there, and that I qualify for benefit payments under the UK interpretation of requirement. Has anyone got experience of filling an E411 and who would I get a certificate from to say that i wasn't claiming anything, or my wife wasn't claiming anything.
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Old 01.09.2009, 19:18
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Re: Kinderzulage

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I worked some years ago in Zurich for 18 mths, and received kinderzulage for the children, who were back in the UK. The process of registering seemed relatively painless. I'm now back in Zurich and have applied again. However this time I have been asked to fill in EU form E411 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010047.pdf) . See final few pages for the English version. Has the situation changed recently with regard to qualification? It seems like I have to get a letter from the benefits authorities in the UK to say that I am not claiming there, and that I qualify for benefit payments under the UK interpretation of requirement. Has anyone got experience of filling an E411 and who would I get a certificate from to say that i wasn't claiming anything, or my wife wasn't claiming anything.
Don't know about the form you mention - hubby's work sorted all the paperwork out - but we had to provide a letter from the UK Child Benefit people, to prove we weren't double claiming. They should send you one automatically some time after you've de-registered, but give them a ring and a nudge if you haven't had one after a few weeks.

Edit: just re-reading your post - is your wife staying in the UK with the children? If so, and she's not working, then claiming Child Benefit will also entitle her to a credit of that year's National Insurance contributions towards her State Pension. If any of the kids are under 6, then she also gets a credit for the State Second Pension. So do the maths, and see which country works out best if you have a choice of where to claim (not sure if you do or not).

kodokan
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Old 02.09.2009, 13:08
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Yes my wife is in the UK, and no we do not qualify in the UK for Child Benefit. We have never had dealings with the child benefit agency. From what you say is it a case that you have to qualify for benefit in your country of residence before you can claim in Switzerland ?
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Old 02.09.2009, 13:10
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Also what do you mean by "de-registered", again does this mean that you were claiming in the UK before you arrived ?
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Old 02.09.2009, 13:12
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Yes, the process has changed as I also experienced. We didn't have any problems though getting the E411 stamped in the other country. They knew exactly which box to tick were. This wasn't the UK though...

And after we had the E411 form signed, we had no problems getting the Kinderzulage here in CH.
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Old 02.09.2009, 13:23
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

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Yes my wife is in the UK, and no we do not qualify in the UK for Child Benefit. We have never had dealings with the child benefit agency.
Are you thinking of the means-tested Child Tax Credit? (or whatever they're calling it this week...). The one that's only for people with combined incomes under about 60k?

Child Benefit is for everyone who has kids under 16 (or older if still in full-time education). It's not means-tested: it's currently 20 for the first child, and 13.20 for each additional child. The amounts are weekly. You get given a form when your baby's born, and start claiming straight away. Most people set it up to come into a bank account 4-weekly, but it can also be paid in cash via the Post Office. It's usually paid in the mother's name, but can be in the name of either parent.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/index.htm

Surely you must have been claiming this since your kids were born..?

This is the thing you need to deregister for, in order to claim Kinderzulage here in Switzerland - which again, is for everyone and not means-tested.

BUT... I don't know if it can be claimed if your kids are staying in the UK.

AND... like I said before, if your wife is non-working and receiving Child Benefit in her name, she will also be benefitting from a credit each year towards her State Pension (and you only need 30 years now for a full pension). Paying voluntary contributions to replace this would cost around 600 a year.

AND... if you have any kids under 6, then a non-working wife will also be credited with an 'earnings related' State Second Pension, equivalent to if she was earning around 11-12k a year.

The pension credits are from something called 'Home Responsibilities Protection': http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/...ed/homeres.asp

So if you have the choice of claiming in either country, do the maths carefully. We didn't as I'm resident here with the kids, but for me (non-working wife, two kids, one under 6) it would have been a total no-brainer to stick with the UK scheme.

Hope this helps!

kodokan

Last edited by kodokan; 02.09.2009 at 13:26. Reason: Forgot links, as always
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Old 02.09.2009, 13:28
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

If you work in one country and your wife and kids are in another they may or may not be elligeble in that country for some kind of benefit. If they receive such benefit but they are lower than the one they would be getting in Switzerland, you are entitled to the difference here in Switzerland.


The UK authorities would then fill in the amount they get in the UK on the E411 form and then the Swiss authorities pay you the difference (well your employer but you get the drift).


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So if you have the choice of claiming in either country, do the maths carefully. We didn't as I'm resident here with the kids, but for me (non-working wife, two kids, one under 6) it would have been a total no-brainer to stick with the UK scheme.

Hope this helps!

kodokan
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Old 02.09.2009, 13:39
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Kodokan --- Oh that one, oops, yes we do get that one. That sort of fell off the radar, since my wife deals with it. From what you say we would have to de-register that one, and reregister it in Switzerland. Hmmmm. Would have to talk to the wife re. the financials of doing that. Thanx for the heads-up, and brain poke. Seems that we probably don't qualify then
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Old 01.10.2010, 10:47
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

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This is the thing you need to deregister for, in order to claim Kinderzulage here in Switzerland - which again, is for everyone and not means-tested...
Kinderzulage is not for everyone and is means tested. I get it because I am self employed and I have to pay 3.3% of my annual income to get it. As soon as my income drops below about 5000 chf a year, the Kinderzulage ceases. My friend in also English and self employed but paying 3.3% of her income would be a little more expensive than the Kinderzulage is worth. So, whilst she contributes to the economy she receives no Kinderzulage back, whilst someone who earns far more but is employed (or whose spouse is), gets it regardless.

Also, I don't think receipt of Kinderzulage means deregistering from Child Beneift. For me, it is the equivalent of the Child Tax Credit. It's that that one would need to deregister from. Child Benefit is for everyone in the UK under 18 whilst that is not the same for Kinderzulage in CH.

Last edited by Longbyt; 01.10.2010 at 11:07. Reason: let's see if the quote works for me
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Old 01.10.2010, 11:08
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

Hope the quote is right now - sorry if I left the wrong bit. Shout if it's wrong and I'll correct it.
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Old 01.10.2010, 11:10
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Re: Kinderzulage (child allowance)

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Kinderzulage is not for everyone and is means tested. I get it because I am self employed and I have to pay 3.3% of my annual income to get it. As soon as my income drops below about 5000 chf a year, the Kinderzulage ceases. My friend in also English and self employed but paying 3.3% of her income would be a little more expensive than the Kinderzulage is worth. So, whilst she contributes to the economy she receives no Kinderzulage back, whilst someone who earns far more but is employed (or whose spouse is), gets it regardless.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Also, I don't think receipt of Kinderzulage means deregistering from Child Beneift. For me, it is the equivalent of the Child Tax Credit. It's that that one would need to deregister from. Child Benefit is for everyone in the UK under 18 whilst that is not the same for Kinderzulage in CH.
Yes, you're right, the rules are a bit different for self-employed people. It also depends on the canton - in Vaud, for example, the tax deduction rate is 1.3% for 2010 rather than the 3.3% you're paying (sorry...).

I think the Kinderzulage 'ceases' below a certain income level because an individual child can only be named once for receipt of Kinderzulage, or as part of unemployment benefit, etc - I guess those on lower incomes are still receiving a sum of money towards children but it just has a different name/ code.

I can see why you'd consider it a bit like UK Child Tax Credit in your self-employed situation, but just to clarify for others - assuming you are salaried with kids, you will be eligible for Kinderzulage here at a set amount per canton, and you cannot claim UK Child Benefit at the same time.
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