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Old 17.09.2009, 15:52
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Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

Hello,

I am considering moving to Switzerland, whilst remaining in employment
in England. I was wondering if anybody had any advice regarding double taxation, etc...

Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 17.09.2009, 16:01
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

Check with Phil Collins. It works for him
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Old 17.09.2009, 16:58
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

Depending on how much time you spend working in England, you will probably continue to be taxed in England.
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Old 17.09.2009, 17:22
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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Check with Phil Collins. It works for him
Phil Collins works?
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Old 17.09.2009, 17:26
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

I guess that there will be a reason, why Switzerland,so the authorities will give you a permit to live here.
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Old 17.09.2009, 17:56
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

as far i am aware you can only spend an average of 90 days in england per 12 month period over 3 years before you qualify for double taxation
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Old 18.09.2009, 10:42
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

I'll be reducing my work commitments in the UK so that I'll be under the 90 day limit.

If I see Phil I'll ask him!
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Old 18.09.2009, 12:19
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

I do this, I am employed in the UK and in CH.

I informed HMRC in the UK that although my domicile is still the UK however I am now not ordinarily resident in the UK. All my UK income stays in the UK and UK tax applies. If I bring it to CH, I have to declare it in CH and pay tax on it then UK tax does not apply. This means that I can avoid paying any tax in the UK if I keep below with 90 day rule mentioned above on money brought to CH (lower taxes here).

You will have a problem if you break the 90 day rule by UK visits or by returning to the UK permanently less than 182 days into the UK tax year. I was caught out by this a few years ago and although they knock off the tax you paid in CH, you can get seriously stung.
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Old 18.09.2009, 12:27
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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You will have a problem if you break the 90 day rule by UK visits or by returning to the UK permanently less than 182 days into the UK tax year. I was caught out by this a few years ago and although they knock off the tax you paid in CH, you can get seriously stung.
I can echo that!! I got my dates wrong and they were on my back for about 5 years
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Old 18.09.2009, 14:49
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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I do this, I am employed in the UK and in CH.

I informed HMRC in the UK that although my domicile is still the UK however I am now not ordinarily resident in the UK. All my UK income stays in the UK and UK tax applies. If I bring it to CH, I have to declare it in CH and pay tax on it then UK tax does not apply. This means that I can avoid paying any tax in the UK if I keep below with 90 day rule mentioned above on money brought to CH (lower taxes here).

You will have a problem if you break the 90 day rule by UK visits or by returning to the UK permanently less than 182 days into the UK tax year. I was caught out by this a few years ago and although they knock off the tax you paid in CH, you can get seriously stung.
What is the distinction between:
  • domiciled in the UK
  • but not ordinarily resident in the UK?
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Old 18.09.2009, 16:12
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

In my case domicile means I was born there and I maintain a property there as a main UK residence and it remains available for my use (for the time being), however the not ordinarily resident means I live abroad full time and will only visit in accorance with the 90 day rule (or less).

Loads of hard to understand info here.
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Old 18.09.2009, 16:49
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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In my case domicile means I was born there and I maintain a property there as a main UK residence and it remains available for my use (for the time being), however the not ordinarily resident means I live abroad full time and will only visit in accorance with the 90 day rule (or less).
Just wanted to add that days entering and leaving the UK don't count towards the days.

Last edited by CH_Me; 18.09.2009 at 18:39.
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Old 20.09.2009, 01:08
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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All my UK income stays in the UK and UK tax applies. If I bring it to CH, I have to declare it in CH and pay tax on it then UK tax does not apply.
Incorrect.

You must declare all global income to Swiss tax authorities.

Where the money is earnt and where the money currently is located is irrelevant. It must still be declared.

Anything else is tax avoidance.
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Old 20.09.2009, 08:06
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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Just wanted to add that days entering and leaving the UK don't count towards the days.
No longer true. It's the number of nights you are in the UK. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf Also, consider this bit: With one exception, it is not simply a question of the number of days you are physically present in the UK during a tax year although this is an important consideration That one exception is if you are in the country more than 183 days, using the "nights" rule. Then you are resident. Section 2.2. Interestingly, there is another exception (which just shows HMRC can't count), because if you're just passing through, and stay overnight and do no business, then those two days don't count.

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Incorrect.

You must declare all global income to Swiss tax authorities.

Where the money is earnt and where the money currently is located is irrelevant. It must still be declared.

Anything else is tax avoidance.
You must declare, but that doesn't mean there will be a tax charge. If there is no tax liability, then there is no avoidance. When I worked in the UK briefly, no tax liability arose there, so, while technically I should have declared to HMRC, there wasn't really any point. And to do so would have cause me and them unneccesary expense.

Anyway - tax AVOIDANCE is not illegal - though certain types of it may be considered immoral by some, leftward leaning envious people- . Any time you make a tax-free investment, or offset an expense of against tax, you are avoiding tax.

Tax EVASION is the one you mustn't do.
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Old 20.09.2009, 10:39
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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You must declare, but that doesn't mean there will be a tax charge. If there is no tax liability, then there is no avoidance. When I worked in the UK briefly, no tax liability arose there, so, while technically I should have declared to HMRC, there wasn't really any point. And to do so would have cause me and them unneccesary expense.

Anyway - tax AVOIDANCE is not illegal - though certain types of it may be considered immoral by some, leftward leaning envious people- . Any time you make a tax-free investment, or offset an expense of against tax, you are avoiding tax.

Tax EVASION is the one you mustn't do.
Call it what you will (like the UBS guys did)

The authorities require you declare all global income and assets.

If you deliberately do not, you will arose their suspicions and they may start to look closer and harder at you

And the end of the day, what you do is your choice.

But the tax law here clearly states what is required.
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Old 20.09.2009, 18:20
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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Call it what you will (like the UBS guys did)

The authorities require you declare all global income and assets.

If you deliberately do not, you will arose their suspicions and they may start to look closer and harder at you

And the end of the day, what you do is your choice.

But the tax law here clearly states what is required.
There is a big difference between AVOIDING tax and EVADING tax. The former is LEGAL, the latter is ILLEGAL. Avoidance means reducing your tax bill whilst staying within the law. Evading means you are a breaking the law (although in Switzerland I believe evasion is only a civil offence, rather than the UK where it is a criminal offence). To imply that they are the same thing is wrong.

The sad fact is that most tax legislation is so complex that not only does the general public not understand it, but also those supposed to be setting the rules get lost half the time... The UK government is supposedly trying to rewrite the tax legislation so that most people can do their own tax returns themselves, but frankly I can't see tax advisors being too worried about losing business any time soon.

Cheers,
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Old 20.09.2009, 20:18
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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But the tax law here clearly states what is required.
Which part of what I wrote did you not understand? The bit where I said - you must declare Or the bit where I pointed out the difference between evasion and avoidance? Or are you in fact a New Zealand version of Dawn Primarolo?
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Old 21.09.2009, 13:52
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

I should have mentioned maybe that I use a UK limited company to manage my UK income so it is strictly not necessary to declate it in CH, unless I move it.

I avoid tax, I do not evade it.
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Old 21.09.2009, 14:07
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

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I should have mentioned maybe that I use a UK limited company to manage my UK income so it is strictly not necessary to declate it in CH, unless I move it.
Which of course is completely different kettle of fish

I imagine the UK company is domiciled in the UK and earns income and pays tax in the UK, and that you are a private individual domiciled in CH and earning in CH

The only thing you'd need to declare on the CH tax return is then:
1. shares held in the UK company (for wealth tax)
2. dividends paid to you by the UK company (for income tax)
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Old 21.09.2009, 14:32
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Re: Working in England/ living in Switzerland.

Exactly, apart from the paying tax bit - I was a Chartered Accountant in my first career

I am yet to do my first tax decalaration in CH, thanks for the heads up on the wealth tax bit (shares held), I will look into that although we don't receive dividends and we keep company values low by moving invoices around to our other companies (subsidiaries and especially associates). There shouldn't be a tax implication in CH or the UK if it is avoided correctly unless there is an actualy money transfer from the UK company to our private CH account - we declare that.
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