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  #21  
Old 04.10.2009, 19:42
ch-expat
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I received some emails telling me that they think all banks in Switzerland will have to do a lot of extra paperwork, reporting all accounts on US citizens to the IRS, that they now will prefer to stop doing business with Americans.
Not only with Americans but with all Swiss residents in the US. It is also a giant hassle for us Swiss. Many Swiss people residing in the US plan to go back to Switzerland or retire there and they just get a big check in the mail from their Swiss banks with all their savings telling them to go away.
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  #22  
Old 04.10.2009, 19:43
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I'm just curious...

If the banks stop doing business with Americans, how will we receive our salary? I think most people have direct deposit. Will they start issuing Pay vouchers for us to cash at the banks...?
Employer can credit salary to an account in US or elsewhere. Employee will suffer some conversion losses.
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  #23  
Old 05.10.2009, 00:34
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

What are the banks going to do with the accounts of all their American employees residing in CH? It seems to me that if they keep any of those, they'll still be subject to any extra filings or whatever they seem to be worrying about right now. Does anyone know if there have actually been any new regulations passed in the US that would require additional reporting by Swiss banks and, if so, could you provide a link so I can understand them better?
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  #24  
Old 05.10.2009, 13:26
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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The US gov. is expecting the Swiss banks to become agents for the IRS. Reporting securities etc...
They just don't want the hassle. You can thank Carl Levin for this.
I spoke with Post Finance about transfering an account. He told me that I had to prove that I paid taxes on the money in the US. He said , firstly I needed to say that I did (attest) and that he would write this in the system. Then, at the discretion of Post Finance, they may make me prove this by showing my US tax declaration. I said, the FBAR, and I was told, no the tax declaration. He said this is new rules being set up for dealing with American clients. He said they have are looking at how they will comply with reporting. He indicated to me he thought they would not ask for documents as my amounts were small, but that was no guarentee.
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  #25  
Old 05.10.2009, 13:56
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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This is indeed very worrying for Americans resident abroad... but the blame must be placed squarely with the IRS and US policy, not the institutions who have found that Americans now bring a boatload of headaches with them, and as clients simply are not worth the potential for trouble. This mess is of our own government's making.
I agree with this to a point; it certainly is the minority making an issue for the honest majority - but the blame lies all over the place.
  • The ones "playing" the system
  • The US policy of forcing non-resident nationals to "pay" tax
  • The approach of other countries to evasion
  • The approach of a minority proactively assisting evasion
It's already the case that private wealth management for US clients who are not resident in Switzerland has resulted in accounts being unilaterally closed (by the bank).

There are no winners here, I think. And most of the losers have done nothing wrong bar have a blue passport or a green card.
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  #26  
Old 05.10.2009, 20:28
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I'm just curious...

If the banks stop doing business with Americans, how will we receive our salary? I think most people have direct deposit. Will they start issuing Pay vouchers for us to cash at the banks...?
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Employer can credit salary to an account in US or elsewhere. Employee will suffer some conversion losses.
This would be fun (not). Would be very annoying, especially since all my bills are in Switzerland, including my mortgages.

I really hope the worse-case scenarios don't happen.
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  #27  
Old 05.10.2009, 20:37
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

well, fellow Americans..there is always another way around it..slam your passport in the face of your friendly US Consulate representative
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  #28  
Old 05.10.2009, 22:05
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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What are the banks going to do with the accounts of all their American employees residing in CH? It seems to me that if they keep any of those, they'll still be subject to any extra filings or whatever they seem to be worrying about right now. Does anyone know if there have actually been any new regulations passed in the US that would require additional reporting by Swiss banks and, if so, could you provide a link so I can understand them better?
The IRS is apparently playing hardball and over-enforcing existing US tax laws. The Swiss Banks are scared. The big ones are burnt. The small ones do not have the accountants, jurists and systems to comply with US tax laws. So it is a simple business decision: no difficult customers.
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  #29  
Old 06.10.2009, 07:19
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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well, fellow Americans..there is always another way around it..slam your passport in the face of your friendly US Consulate representative
Do you mean to give up US citizenship or just make a big fuss and feel better afterward?
Aren't you stuck if your net worth is more than some amount?
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  #30  
Old 06.10.2009, 07:43
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Do you mean to give up US citizenship or just make a big fuss and feel better afterward?
Aren't you stuck if your net worth is more than some amount?
You're never "stuck". However, the US government (unfreakingbelievably) reserves the right to continue taxing you for five years after you give up your citizenship. Crazy.
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  #31  
Old 06.10.2009, 08:38
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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You're never "stuck". However, the US government (unfreakingbelievably) reserves the right to continue taxing you for five years after you give up your citizenship. Crazy.
I thought there was this $2M net worth limit. If you are above, they won't let you go.
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  #32  
Old 06.10.2009, 08:47
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Yeah, I figured out what you meant. However, I can't imagine that would even begin to be legal, and it sounds to me like urban legend. You can't force someone to remain a citizen if he or she chooses to give up citizenship.
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  #33  
Old 06.10.2009, 09:00
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Yeah, I figured out what you meant. However, I can't imagine that would even begin to be legal, and it sounds to me like urban legend. You can't force someone to remain a citizen if he or she chooses to give up citizenship.
I am not sure. Jwalker46 seemed very informed and it is what he said in the following post:

[US Citizens] Tax Amnesty [extended 15 Oct 09] - FBAR Reporting
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  #34  
Old 06.10.2009, 10:07
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I am not sure. Jwalker46 seemed very informed and it is what he said in the following post:

[US Citizens] Tax Amnesty [extended 15 Oct 09] - FBAR Reporting
That does seem to be clear, doesn't it? I wonder if that's ever been challenged in court; I can't begin to see how that could possibly fly.

But in any case, I'll be doing my best to lose that citizenship before my net worth gets that high. Just have to make it a few more years before I can apply here... ;-)
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  #35  
Old 06.10.2009, 10:12
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

I take it back; after reading the ACA page you linked, I think that the 2 million dollar limit simply applies to the alternative tax regime, not to a "you can't ditch your citizenship" kind of rule.

I was further dismayed to learn that the taxable post-citizenship period is 10 years, not 5, by the way...
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  #36  
Old 06.10.2009, 10:22
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Whoa, this is serious stuff folks.
Am watching this thread with interest (no pun!):

Stupid Quick Questions from an Englishman:

1. All US Citizens regardless of whether they live in New York, Geneva or Somalia must fill in a US Tax Return annually. Correct?

2. Take a normal US citizen working as a regular employee in Switzerland.
Pays Swiss Tax, everything above board. Everything fine.

What the hell do the US Authorities charge this person in Tax?
Surely NOTHING. Because he/she has paid their taxes in their country of residence. Correct?

Thanks for info
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  #37  
Old 06.10.2009, 10:26
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Me again. Come on. This is a joke right.
How complicated and bureacratic can you get?!

This from an earlier thread and a well-informed poster:

"... The second exception applies to a U.S. citizen who relinquishes U.S. citizenship before reaching age 18½, provided that the individual was a resident of the United States (under the substantial presence test of section 7701(b)(1)(A)(ii)) for no more than 10 taxable years before such relinquishment."

at 7701(b)(1)(A)(ii)
And I thought the Schengen rules were a little tricky...


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  #38  
Old 06.10.2009, 10:51
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

I tried to open a 3rd Pillar account with an insurance company, and
they turned me down because of my citizenship.
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  #39  
Old 06.10.2009, 10:53
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Whoa, this is serious stuff folks.
Am watching this thread with interest (no pun!):

Stupid Quick Questions from an Englishman:

1. All US Citizens regardless of whether they live in New York, Geneva or Somalia must fill in a US Tax Return annually. Correct?

2. Take a normal US citizen working as a regular employee in Switzerland.
Pays Swiss Tax, everything above board. Everything fine.

What the hell do the US Authorities charge this person in Tax?
Surely NOTHING. Because he/she has paid their taxes in their country of residence. Correct?

Thanks for info

1. Correct.

2. One pays Swiss tax as any Swiss resident would. However, Uncle Sam wants his pound of flesh as well.

Although US citizens may exclude a chunk of one's overseas income, and claim credit for most of, but not all, taxes paid to the host country, one owes US taxes on the remainder. Many expat Americans end up paying a hefty sum to Uncle Sam.

The blue passport is a rather expensive accessory.
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Old 06.10.2009, 11:04
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Whoa, this is serious stuff folks.
Am watching this thread with interest (no pun!):

Stupid Quick Questions from an Englishman:

1. All US Citizens regardless of whether they live in New York, Geneva or Somalia must fill in a US Tax Return annually. Correct?

2. Take a normal US citizen working as a regular employee in Switzerland.
Pays Swiss Tax, everything above board. Everything fine.

What the hell do the US Authorities charge this person in Tax?
Surely NOTHING. Because he/she has paid their taxes in their country of residence. Correct?

Thanks for info
1. Sadly, yes

2. Yep, but we're still treated as if we're hiding something

Good question. We don't see the benefit of such taxes. It is double taxation. And taxation without representation (we can vote, but nobody is our real representative - they represent the people who live there, not overseas, so nobody has our interests at heart), which was the stink that caused tea to end up in Boston harbor over 200 years ago.
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