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  #81  
Old 07.10.2009, 10:18
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

flying across a huge pond and helping/assisting foreign national deceive and steal from their government is not what I would call offering banking services...

Analogy: The driver(the one sitting in the running car) of the getaway car used in a bank heist is considered just as guilty as the robbers(the ones who go into the bank). So UBS bankers(drivers of the getaway car) who helped the robbers(US citizens) steal from the US government should be held just as accountable for their actions.

Instead of UBS taking this childish stance and not wanting to deal with American anymore, they should be firing all the people involved in this scheme to help people steal from their government!

Just as not all UBS bankers are bad, neither are all Americans. It takes the negative deeds of the minority to spoil it for the majority.

The US is far from perfect, but lets be fair here on where to assess the blame....
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  #82  
Old 07.10.2009, 10:20
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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O.K. you can "stick up for Switzerland" if you wish but if ever the time came to turn you in they will do it...Its best that you understand that. Then I bet you won't be singing their praises...
I agree with you on this one. the Swiss gov was weak and did not negotiate correctly. UBS had a horrible attitude. I have no sympathy for them. It is just that the US is completely hypocritical. The estimation is that $24B of Russia's dirty money transits and is laundered through Delaware every year. Does the US gov look into it? You bet they don't. It is Joe Biden's home state after all.
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  #83  
Old 07.10.2009, 10:26
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

And you are correct, CH-Expat.

And, I think, you will see other countries calling the US out on it's foreign issues now that it's been knocked from it throne...

The Swiss should go after their tax cheats... I guess, the Swiss government are thinking, how can we go after our tax evaders when we are, knowingly, holding accounts for other foreign tax evaders...

Oh, the irony in it all.......................
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  #84  
Old 07.10.2009, 10:40
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Know a lot of dictators, then, that you can back up this claim? Or have you just seen a lot of James Bond movies? ;-)

The only facts I'm aware of with Swiss and "dirty" money come from the Nazi claims in the nineties, which have been discussed ad nauseum on this board already.

I've got nothing against UBS being held accountable for their actions, and in fact fully support the prosecution of those involved; I have serious issues with the US demanding that every bank in Switzerland hand over my account information.
There are so many my hands can get tired typing but just to name a few: The Montesinos of Peru; Marcos-Phillipines; Abacha-Nigeria; Kazakh-Kazakhstan; Salinas-Mexico; Duvalier-Haiti; Mobutu-Democratic Republic of Congo...And if you are concerned about banks in Switzerland handing over your account information then speak to the Swiss about it.. Don't blame others. The Swiss are making these decisions to accept or not to accept demands from other nations...Deal With It
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  #85  
Old 07.10.2009, 10:48
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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There are so many my hands can get tired typing but just to name a few: The Montesinos of Peru; Marcos-Phillipines; Abacha-Nigeria; Kazakh-Kazakhstan; Salinas-Mexico; Duvalier-Haiti; Mobutu-Democratic Republic of Congo...And if you are concerned about banks in Switzerland handing over your account information then speak to the Swiss about it.. Don't blame others. The Swiss are making these decisions to accept or not to accept demands from other nations...Deal With It
As I said: can you prove that any of these people have transferred money to Swiss banks? Particularly such money that international law requires banks to not accept.

But you're right about the rest, I'm sure. Don't blame the man with the gun; blame the wimp who hands over his money.
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Old 07.10.2009, 10:59
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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---

so many European countries have made you feel unwelcome then as an American national ?
You mean as in:

so the US have made you feel unwelcome then as an European citizen ?
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  #87  
Old 07.10.2009, 11:13
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

actions/inactions of US government and especially effects of their foreign policy will be felt by US citizens. This is the penality citizens of each and every country pay for ridiculous governments they themselves elect.That is simple the way it works...PERIOD.

US citizens should take a more active role in the politics of their country and ensure they voice their approval and disapproval in a democratic way...you know the way for example the French do it for example...in the US the citizensh are afraid of their government, they are kept down by the weight of debt the accumulated, kept down by their employers since they need the job to have health care and kept stupid by lack of free press since most of TV/newspapers/radio stations are owned by corporate giants.

So, suck it up and deal with it! if you do not like the way financial institutions here treat you go back, figure out a way to deal with it, write to your friendly congressman....
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  #88  
Old 07.10.2009, 11:26
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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figure out a way to deal with it,
That's exactly what's happening here, by the way. Freedom of expression leads to more and more like-minded people, which in turn leads to change. Democratic change doesn't happen just by writing your congressman!
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  #89  
Old 07.10.2009, 11:46
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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As I said: can you prove that any of these people have transferred money to Swiss banks? Particularly such money that international law requires banks to not accept.

But you're right about the rest, I'm sure. Don't blame the man with the gun; blame the wimp who hands over his money.
Where have you been? Hiding under a rock? It is no secret that these dictators have Swiss bank accounts (or had Swiss bank accounts)....
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  #90  
Old 07.10.2009, 12:04
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

I am in the position of needing a bank account here. I'm making phone calls today and will let everyone know what I learn.

This thread is interesting because I am in the process of opening a PostFinance account. I still need to show them a residence permit (which I do not have and won't have for a few weeks), so it might be a while before I have an answer in re PostFinance.
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  #91  
Old 07.10.2009, 12:57
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

I just got off the phone with UBS. They said no problem as long as I am domiciled and employed within Switzerland. OK then. I thought UBS was one of the bad guys in all this.
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  #92  
Old 07.10.2009, 13:27
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

so, in all this there is good news (kind of). if indeed americans are not able to open an account with banks and post finance here, then we are not able to report what amounts we have in our local bank account. because we can't have one. so, has the usa kind of "shot themselves in the foot" on this one (again) imagine filing your tax return and saying : no foreign bank account.

and you would be telling the truth.
next news event: us asks switzerland to open bank accounts for us citizens, so they are able to report their earnings. ha!
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  #93  
Old 07.10.2009, 16:47
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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It is just that the US is completely hypocritical. The estimation is that $24B of Russia's dirty money transits and is laundered through Delaware every year. Does the US gov look into it? You bet they don't. It is Joe Biden's home state after all.
Can you cite any credible source for that?

Delaware does not offer bank secrecy, and there is no anonymity from the government: the principal place of business is disclosed, and the books & records must be available for state or federal audit.

You seem rather confused about tax liability: the US does not tax non-US persons, and an LLC is transparent for tax purposes. That does not in any way alter the information-sharing agreements (which work in two directions). In short, if any country which has a tax treaty with the US wishes information on a US company's owners, place of business, etc, it is available - and the state of formation (Delaware or other) has nothing to do with it.
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  #94  
Old 07.10.2009, 18:02
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Can you cite any credible source for that?

Delaware does not offer bank secrecy, and there is no anonymity from the government: the principal place of business is disclosed, and the books & records must be available for state or federal audit.

You seem rather confused about tax liability: the US does not tax non-US persons, and an LLC is transparent for tax purposes. That does not in any way alter the information-sharing agreements (which work in two directions). In short, if any country which has a tax treaty with the US wishes information on a US company's owners, place of business, etc, it is available - and the state of formation (Delaware or other) has nothing to do with it.
I am not confused. The US does not Tax non-US persons (which makes it a tax haven for foreigners that are non-residents) and Delaware has no state tax.
You can form a LLC without disclosing the names of the directors. One of the 600 or so firms that cater to that market will be happy to nominate a clerk as a point contact.
You can then have your LLC own US securities for example.
I will try to retrieve that article on Russia's dirty money.
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  #95  
Old 07.10.2009, 18:28
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I am not confused.
Well, let's see.....

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The US does not Tax non-US persons (which makes it a tax haven for foreigners that are non-residents)....
That generality is quite wrong; to cite just one example, the US does tax a non-US person on capital gains from US property.

However, being a low-tax jurisdiction (or "tax haven") is changing the subject from what you wrote, but to address your comment: it is scarcely offensive, is it? It would be a little absurd for this thread to be replete with complaints that US taxation is too high and that it is too low.

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...and Delaware has no state tax
That is also quite wrong; see tax tables here.

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You can form a LLC without disclosing the names of the directors. One of the 600 or so firms that cater to that market will be happy to nominate a clerk as a point contact.
You can then have your LLC own US securities for example.
Quite wrong (I do admire your consistency); there is no such thing as an undisclosed director. (Perhaps you meant "shareholder"?)

You don't seem to grasp the fact that a US company cannot provide anonymity from the US gov't, and (via tax treaties) from other countries. If the Swiss wish to know the shareholders of a US company, that information is available.

You seem (also) confused between what information is posted for the public, and what information is available to the US gov't. The (implied) notion that a US company can hide its beneficial owners from the IRS is not correct.

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I will try to retrieve that article on Russia's dirty money.
Please do. May we anticipate "The Independent" or "Daily Mail"? This does sound like another Robert Fisk hallucination.

So, to return to your prior claim:
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...when it comes to helping people hide their money, the US is one of the best place. If you are a non-US citizen and non US resident, Delaware is the perfect place to launder your dirty money and pay no taxes.
We will wait for some evidence.
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  #96  
Old 07.10.2009, 18:39
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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We will wait for some evidence.
Sorry, OT

Not an expert on that subject at all, but I think he is referring to some of these:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1047656.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/30/bu...0delaware.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...864804743.html

I tried to read up on it, but will have to consult some friends for the finer details...

There was another recent article, will try to find it..
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  #97  
Old 07.10.2009, 18:46
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Sorry, OT ....I tried to read up on it, but will have to consult some friends for the finer details...
The tax rates applicable in Zug, Delaware, etc have nothing whatever to do with ch-expat's claim of DE as "the perfect place to launder money."

The BBC article is generic (regarding bank record-keeping), the NYT article discusses perfectly legitimate tax planning (of the sort that leads people to CH, and reasonably so), and the AU article, like ch-expat, seems a bit confused about what info is public and what is available to the US gov't (and by extension, to AU).

p.s what is "OT" ?
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  #98  
Old 07.10.2009, 18:48
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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p.s what is "OT" ?
Thanks - as I said, I am not really informed about it yet. The OT refers to off topic.
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  #99  
Old 07.10.2009, 18:50
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Thanks - as I said, I am not really informed about it yet. The OT refers to off topic.
Thanks; yes, the original subject seems lost in distant memory by now, doesn't it?
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Old 07.10.2009, 20:38
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Well, let's see.....
Jwalker,
Can you just stop with the sarcasm. It is neither helpful or funny.
My source is mostly from a tax haven crusader in the UK, Richard Murphy.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/page7.html and his blog.
and also
http://www.economist.com/businessfin...ry_id=13382279

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A money-laundering threat assessment in 2005 by the federal government found that corporate anonymity offered by Delaware, Nevada and Wyoming rivalled that of familiar offshore financial centres. For foreigners, America is a particularly attractive place to stash cash, because it does not tax the interest income they earn. Thus with both anonymity and no taxation, America offers them all the elements of a tax haven.
http://www.albionmonitor.com/0005a/russianlaundry.html

Also this is what Sen. Carl Levin had to say:
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“For too long, criminals have misused US corporations to hide illicit activity, including money laundering and tax fraud,” said Mr Levin. “It doesn’t make sense that less information is required to form a US corporation than to obtain a driver’s licence. Here at home, states provide law enforcement with company documents, but those documents don’t identify company owners."
Carl Levin proposed a law forcing states to identify the beneficial owners of corporations.

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You don't seem to grasp the fact that a US company cannot provide anonymity from the US gov't, and (via tax treaties) from other countries. If the Swiss wish to know the shareholders of a US company, that information is available.
The shareholder's name is not disclosed in the first place so where is that information recorded?

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is no such thing as an undisclosed director. (Perhaps you meant "shareholder"?)
Yes, my mistake. You are correct, it is the shareholder that is unknown and it is the one we should be interested in.
Could you tell me why Delaware does not demand the disclosure of shareholders?

Last edited by ch-expat; 07.10.2009 at 22:22.
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