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  #101  
Old 07.10.2009, 21:02
JVC
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Jwalker,
Can you just stop with the sarcasm. It is neither helpful or funny.
My source is mostly from a tax haven crusader in the UK, Richard Murphy.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/page7.html and his blog.
and also
http://www.economist.com/businessfin...ry_id=13382279
Sorry to disillusion you but as far as I am concerned Richard Murphy has his own agenda and he is often incorrect in his analyses (sorry I nearly swore there).

I give you this link
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  #102  
Old 07.10.2009, 21:31
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Sorry to disillusion you but as far as I am concerned Richard Murphy has his own agenda and he is often incorrect in his analyses (sorry I nearly swore there).

I give you this link
Yes, he is controversial and he is blasting the Swiss also. But do you think he is wrong on Delaware?
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  #103  
Old 07.10.2009, 21:36
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There are so many my hands can get tired typing but just to name a few: The Montesinos of Peru; Marcos-Phillipines; Abacha-Nigeria; Kazakh-Kazakhstan; Salinas-Mexico; Duvalier-Haiti; Mobutu-Democratic Republic of Congo...And if you are concerned about banks in Switzerland handing over your account information then speak to the Swiss about it.. Don't blame others. The Swiss are making these decisions to accept or not to accept demands from other nations...Deal With It
The Swiss used to have all those customers, you are absolutely right. Less so now. You can thank external pressure for that.
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  #104  
Old 07.10.2009, 22:16
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Can you just stop with the sarcasm. It is neither helpful or funny.
Well, I thought it was funny, but that is subjective, so I'll try to keep my sense of humor under control (and if it's any consolation, my wife has been agreeing with your viewpoint for a few decades).

It is late here, so please excuse a quick reply.

Frankly, I think "tax haven" is a compliment, so the entire issue of whether Zug, Zurich, Hamilton (Bermuda) or Wilmington (DE) offers a good tax deal is not important; congratulations to them all! All countries compete to offer tax breaks to investors in one form or another (e.g. the UK's "non-dom" tax scheme).

My strong exception was (and remains) to your characterization of Delaware (or any US state) as "the perfect place to launder your dirty money." To the tax collector, the US is far more transparent than is Switzerland, various UK dependencies, etc, thus your description is over-wrought.

I have tried to emphasize (and I'm not sure if I was clear, since you don't respond directly) that in the US there is complete transparency to the federal government of corporate (LLC etc) affairs. That makes the US a poor choice to launder money, since ultimately you can't hide.

Levin may wish there were more transparency, so the IRS has less work to do, but that is an administrative matter (relating to the IRS budget & workload), not a matter of sheltering money laundering.

So, what Delaware (or any state) collects is little different from what Zug or Zurich collect (an S.A. can still have bearer shares, can't it?), but it does not matter - there is transparency to the federal tax collector, and via tax treaty to Switzerland, the UK, etc.

As to your links: I don't take Richard Murphy or the "Albion Monitor" too seriously, or any other that cites "a months-long investigation" which, apparently, neither you nor I can read (no link provided).

As to the Economist, read the article carefully, and please re-read my earlier comment: you are confusing (and I'm not being sarcastic, nor unkind) what information the state collects (& publishes), and what information is available to the US gov't. There is no shareholder information that the US gov't (Dept of Justice or Dept of the Treasury) cannot compel a company to produce, including the beneficial owners.

Now, let's make a comparison (seeking the "perfect place to launder money"): What is the shareholder disclosure in Switzerland? I've been told directly by Swiss attorneys that they can be a nominee shareholder, and the Swiss tax authority cannot compel them to disclose the beneficial owner. Further, Switzerland still permits bearer shares. So, there really is no comparison in transparency. (That is not a criticism of Swiss law or policies ...it is merely a criticism of your claim that Delaware is "the perfect place" etc.)

p.s. in direct answer to your query: DE does not require a shareholder list since it wishes to emulate Switzerland. (OK, I'm kidding ... a bit.)

Last edited by jwalker46; 07.10.2009 at 22:18. Reason: typos
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  #105  
Old 07.10.2009, 22:26
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Yes, he is controversial and he is blasting the Swiss also. But do you think he is wrong on Delaware?
If you would be kind enough to give me a link on his Delaware opinions, I'll respond.

As far as I am concerned (I am a Brit by the way), he is a mouthpiece for the Labour Party who seek to impose an ever increasing tax burden on anyone enterprising enough to start their own business.

In fact I might go further than that and say that the UK left wingers are making it a war between those employed by the public sector and those in the private sector.

With exceptions for Russian billionaires, US actors etc who pay next to no tax as "non-doms" in the UK. The UK is a tax haven as long as you don't carry a British passport and are rich enough.
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  #106  
Old 07.10.2009, 22:35
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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...steal from their government ...

...steal from the US government...

...steal from their government!...
The notion that people protecting their assets from taxation (even "illegally") are "stealing from the government" is statist propaganda that's been mindlessly swallowed (and regurgitated as needed) by the masses for many decades.

In the first place, taxation itself (confiscation of another's property under threat of imprisonment or other physical oppression) has been aptly described as a form of "legal plunder" — an act to be tolerated from government, but which remains illegal to the governed. In the US in particular, the "free" citizens themselves were never given an opportunity to vote on whether or not to be plundered in the way the IRS pretends to administer US "income tax" law, as has been thoroughly documented by the likes of Phil Hart and Bill Benson.

But more importantly, anyone who thinks the IRS and federal prosecutors (and judges) faithfully follow and uphold US tax law as written is just plain duped, as is made plain by this guy (among others). He probably understands the Internal Revenue Code and its underlying Code of Federal Regulations statutes better than most IRS employees and tax attorneys, and he goes out of his way to help his readers check his research directly at the source: the law itself.

Even granting the so-called "necessary evil" of taxes in general, anyone familiar with the research of Hart, Benson, and Hendrickson (among others) has seen enough evidence to know the problem is much more "government stealing" under color of law than "stealing from the government."
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  #107  
Old 07.10.2009, 22:36
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I have tried to emphasize (and I'm not sure if I was clear, since you don't respond directly) that in the US there is complete transparency to the federal government of corporate (LLC etc) affairs. That makes the US a poor choice to launder money, since ultimately you can't hide.

Okay, my choice of "Delaware as a place to hide money" is a poor choice of words (you probably have noticed that I am not an English native speaker nor an accountant). It is clear that Delaware is a PO box only and not some "secret bank".
But it is very useful. The anonymity Delaware offers nevertheless is a key link in criminal enterprises.
How can the Federal government know who the owners are? It is not disclosed. The law enforcement agencies are at a loss to find those people. All they find is a clerk in Wilmington. So I am a bit confused on how the Federal government can honor a request from a foreign state? Can you please clarify?

Regarding the tax status of your LLC, you do not pay taxes in Delaware if you do not do business there. Also convenient.

Last edited by ch-expat; 07.10.2009 at 23:34. Reason: pasted quote
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  #108  
Old 07.10.2009, 22:41
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If you would be kind enough to give me a link on his Delaware opinions, I'll respond.

As far as I am concerned (I am a Brit by the way), he is a mouthpiece for the Labour Party who seek to impose an ever increasing tax burden on anyone enterprising enough to start their own business.

In fact I might go further than that and say that the UK left wingers are making it a war between those employed by the public sector and those in the private sector.

With exceptions for Russian billionaires, US actors etc who pay next to no tax as "non-doms" in the UK. The UK is a tax haven as long as you don't carry a British passport and are rich enough.
JVC,
No doubt, he makes me cringe too but there is some useful information.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...its-got-to-go/
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  #109  
Old 07.10.2009, 22:47
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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The notion that people protecting their assets from taxation (even "illegally") are "stealing from the government" is statist propaganda that's been mindlessly swallowed (and regurgitated as needed) by the masses for many decades.

In the first place, taxation itself (confiscation of another's property under threat of imprisonment or other physical oppression) has been aptly described as a form "legal plunder" — an act to be tolerated from government, but which remains illegal to the governed. In the US in particular, the "free" citizens themselves were never given an opportunity to vote on whether or not to be plundered in the way the IRS pretends to administer US "income tax" law, as has been thoroughly documented by the likes of Phil Hart and Bill Benson.

But more importantly, anyone who thinks the IRS and federal prosecutors (and judges) faithfully follow and uphold US tax law as written is just plain duped, as is made plain by this guy (among others). He probably understands the Internal Revenue Code and its underlying Code of Federal Regulations statutes better than most IRS employees and tax attorneys, and he goes out of his way to help his readers check his research directly at the source: the law itself.

Even granting the so-called "necessary evil" of taxes in general, anyone familiar with the research of Hart, Benson, and Hendrickson (among others) has seen enough evidence to know the problem is much more "government stealing" under color of law than "stealing from the government."
You made a very valid point. It is the government who is stealing. Tax, spend carelessly, make debt, tax more (increase tax or print money aka inflation aka indirect stealing), spend even more, increase debt...
Every government is stealing, just the quantity is different. There are two main indicators for the level of government theft:
1. inflation rate(that's why they manipulate this indicator)
2. tax rate
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  #110  
Old 07.10.2009, 23:26
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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....as is made plain by this guy (among others). He probably understands the Internal Revenue Code and its underlying Code of Federal Regulations statutes better than most IRS employees and tax attorneys....
Better than most, eh? Don't you think it worth mentioning to the readers here that Hendrickson was sued for tax fraud in 2007? And, perhaps it is worth mentioning that he lost?
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  #111  
Old 07.10.2009, 23:41
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Okay, my choice of "Delaware as a place to hide money" is a poor choice of words (you probably have noticed that I am not an English native speaker nor an accountant).
My German would make you cringe, so no problem.

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It is clear that Delaware is PO box only.
The anonymity Delaware offers nevertheless is a key link in criminal enterprises.
NO. What records are public, and what are available to the gov't, are not the same thing. (In the US, there are valid reasons for privacy, just as in CH, but that is really a longer discussion.) In CH, you can use an accountant's office as the "registered office", yet you, the shareholder list, etc are not there -- DE is no different.

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How can the Federal government know who the owners are? It is not disclosed. The law enforcement agencies are at a loss to find those people. All they find is a clerk in Wilmington. So I am a bit confused on how the Federal government can honor a request from a foreign state?
It is very simple. In every country (CH, US, etc) a company continues to exist only if it meets certain requirements. In the US, a company is obliged to have a registered office in its state of formation, where legal documents (lawsuits, etc) can be served. That office, in turn, is obliged to know where the books & records of the company are kept. If the federal gov't issues a subpoena for those records, and they aren't "there", the state will void the company, i.e. it legally ceases to exist. (That is why states issue "certificates of good standing" on request!) So, the notion that a company can continue to operate while telling the US gov't to get lost (i.e. while refusing to divulge its records) is just fantasy.

In any event, to return to my point: whatever the lack of transparency in DE, it is more transparent that CH (and other places), hence not "the perfect place" ...and, really, not even a good place.

It's a bit late - if you want to continue, I'll check in tomorrow.

Guten Abend!
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  #112  
Old 08.10.2009, 00:20
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Better than most, eh? Don't you think it worth mentioning to the readers here that Hendrickson was sued for tax fraud in 2007? And, perhaps it is worth mentioning that he lost?
He's been prosecuted twice, and hasn't lost yet. As long as you think it's "worth mentioning" that he "lost," I suggest you supply some compelling corroboration for that claim (and I'll remove my groan), or else retract it.

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  #113  
Old 08.10.2009, 00:39
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I just got off the phone with UBS. They said no problem as long as I am domiciled and employed within Switzerland. OK then. I thought UBS was one of the bad guys in all this.
UBS will give you a councilor who deals with US clients. They will/are documenting the processes of dealing with US persons accounts.

Make sure it is on your FBAR and income tax return and then if they share your infor with US, you are covered.
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  #114  
Old 08.10.2009, 00:43
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Oh yeah, Texaner..

This is the nut job we are supposed to follow...lol!


Hendrickson pleaded guilty to one count of willfully failing to file an income tax return and one count of conspiracy to place an incendiary device in the United States mail. United States v. Peter Hendrickson, No. 2:1991cr80930 (U.S.D.C. E.D. Mich.). Hendrickson was sentenced to 21 months in prison, and was released on 8/25/1993 (register # 15406-039, Bureau of Prisons, U.S. Dep't of Justice).

The conspiracy charge was based on a firebomb put into the mail at the United States Post Office in Royal Oak, Michigan, on April 16, 1990, the last day for filing federal income tax returns that year. The bomb went off in the post office, injuring a postal worker and a bystander. Hendrickson was apparently able to get a favorable sentencing recommendation for himself (and get charges dropped against his then girlfriend, later wife) by secretly tape-recording one of his co-conspirators and testifying against him. The courts ruled that the tape-recording was Hendrickson's own idea, and not part of any agreement with the United States government, so the secret, warrantless taping did not violate the 4th Amendment. United States v. Scott Scarborough, 43 F.3d 1021 (6th Cir. 1994). See also United States v. Karen Scarborough, 30 F.3d 135 (6th Cir. 1994) (per curiam).
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  #115  
Old 08.10.2009, 00:55
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Yeah, what a man...

Putting a bomb in the mail and injuring innocent people because he had an issue with paying his taxes, should have gotten his dumb ass thrown up under the jail. And he should still be there!

He is nothing but a glorified terrorist...
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  #116  
Old 08.10.2009, 00:58
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It is very simple. In every country (CH, US, etc) a company continues to exist only if it meets certain requirements. In the US, a company is obliged to have a registered office in its state of formation, where legal documents (lawsuits, etc) can be served. That office, in turn, is obliged to know where the books & records of the company are kept. If the federal gov't issues a subpoena for those records, and they aren't "there", the state will void the company, i.e. it legally ceases to exist. (That is why states issue "certificates of good standing" on request!) So, the notion that a company can continue to operate while telling the US gov't to get lost (i.e. while refusing to divulge its records) is just fantasy.

In any event, to return to my point: whatever the lack of transparency in DE, it is more transparent that CH (and other places), hence not "the perfect place" ...and, really, not even a good place.

It's a bit late - if you want to continue, I'll check in tomorrow.

Guten Abend!
Happy dreams!

My point is that the US (with the help of a few states) is not the open and transparent place it tries to project. Even Brazil is complaining about it apparently.

The Economist says the following:
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A study by the Internal Revenue Service found that 50-90% of those registering companies were already in breach of federal tax laws.
It is a terrible record, I think you will agree. Why isn't the law enforced? Shouldn't it be a priority?

I hear you about a subpoena from the IRS or the SEC. But based on the article above, what will they find? At best a clueless registered agent that will tell them that the LLC is owned by another LLC in... Antigua. Am I mistaken?

Last edited by ch-expat; 08.10.2009 at 18:31.
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  #117  
Old 08.10.2009, 01:50
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Oh yeah, Texaner..

This is the nut job we are supposed to follow...
Please note that my response was to the allegation that Hendrickson had been "sued for tax fraud in 2007" and "lost." To my knowledge, Hendrickson has been twice prosecuted since publishing his research (several years after the episode you cite), but not convicted. If you can show otherwise, please do so.

You may choose to ignore his research, but that doesn't entitle you to pretend to speak from a position of knowledge concerning US tax laws, as written, and what his research has brought to light. Calling him names ("nut job") for his past indiscretions (for which he has paid) adds nothing constructive to the matter.
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Last edited by Texaner; 08.10.2009 at 02:09.
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  #118  
Old 08.10.2009, 02:30
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

The jury is still out on Mr. Hendrickson His trial is set for October 20th of this year...And, the reason he wasn't convicted on the previous charges is because the government decided to drop those charges so that they could pursue more serious charges against him.

And regarding his "indiscretion." I suppose the people our military is fighting is committing "indiscretions" when they strap on bombs and blow people up because of their beliefs...... Please! The guy committed a terrorist act and should still be in jail.

There are some crimes where criminals should not be allowed to make plea bargains, and this is one of them...
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  #119  
Old 08.10.2009, 02:42
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...the reason he wasn't convicted on the previous charges is because the government decided to drop those charges so that they could pursue more serious charges against him...
So you say. And where exactly is that documented?
(Edit: Or is groaning your SOP when someone asks for corroboration from a government shill?)

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...The guy committed a terrorist act and should still be in jail...
Your vigilante attitude is noted. He did the time the US justice system considered appropriate. If you can't consider his debt paid, then your problem is with the US justice system (which you seem to otherwise consider incapable of error), not with him.

Last edited by Texaner; 08.10.2009 at 05:24.
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  #120  
Old 08.10.2009, 08:07
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Vigilante attitude...lol! I'm not the one trying to get out of paying my taxes, and sending a bomb in the mail. So, if wanting someone with that type of mental capacity off the streets, then so be it. I'm a vigilante..

You call an American sending a bomb through the mail an indescretion, I call it terrorism.........

Any one who wants to find out just what kind of track record this guy has can just google him(Peter Eric Hendrickson)

I'm through with this thread, It's Tuesday morning here and I have to get ready for work.

Good morning Switzerland!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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