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  #121  
Old 08.10.2009, 10:54
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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He's been prosecuted twice, and hasn't lost yet. As long as you think it's "worth mentioning" that he "lost," I suggest you supply some compelling corroboration for that claim (and I'll remove my groan), or else retract it.
Henderson was charged in federal court for filing "false returns"; he lost the case (court decision is here); the court also issued a permanent injunction against "filing tax returns...based on the false and fraudulent claims set forth in Cracking the Code." (That is the book to which you linked, isn't it?) On appeal, the ruling was affirmed (that decision is here).

The appellate court summarized the case as follows: "The government filed its complaint...seeking to recover amounts refunded to the Hendricksons pursuant to fraudulent tax returns filed for the 2002 and 2003 tax years. In addition, the government sought injunctive relief...to prohibit them from filing fraudulent tax documents in the future." (pg 2 of appeals court decision).

Last edited by jwalker46; 08.10.2009 at 11:54. Reason: typo
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  #122  
Old 08.10.2009, 13:52
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Henderson was charged in federal court for filing "false returns"; he lost the case...
If he "lost the case," what did it cost him? He certainly hasn't been incarcerated between 2007 and now, and I don't see where he paid anything monetarily. Nor has he otherwise been silenced or stopped from publishing his findings as he was doing since well before 2007. For someone who "lost the case" in 2007, he sure seems unaffected.
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  #123  
Old 08.10.2009, 14:23
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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If he "lost the case,"...
What on earth do you mean "if he lost the case"? Hendrickson was a defendant in a civil case for unpaid taxes. The court ruled in favor of the plaintiff (the IRS). That is what "lost the case" means, even in Texas.

How could you miss it??? It was clearly stated in the Court decisions to which I linked. The court ruled Hendrickson must pay the IRS over $20k plus interest, and a $4k penalty for a "frivolous" tax return.

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Nor has he otherwise been silenced or stopped from publishing his findings as he was doing since well before 2007.
You're changing the subject - the IRS did not ask the court to restrict his First Amendment rights to publish his opinions. (For non-US readers: US Constitution is quite expansive about freedom of speech; people can publish almost anything they wish, unlike in Europe).

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...For someone who "lost the case" in 2007, he sure seems unaffected.
Unaffected? He can't act on his own advice! The permanent injunction, as I quoted, prohibits him from filing the "fraudulent tax documents" that he advises others to file.


Now, let's return to your comment above. You wrote, "He's been prosecuted twice, and hasn't lost yet. As long as you think it's 'worth mentioning' that he 'lost,' I suggest you supply some compelling corroboration for that claim (and I'll remove my groan), or else retract it."

I have provided proof that Hendrickson lost a civil case against the IRS, was ordered to pay the IRS over $24k, and was permanently enjoined from filing tax returns using the "false and fraudulent claims" set forth in his book. By any standard, he "lost" the case.
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  #124  
Old 08.10.2009, 15:41
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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What on earth do you mean?...
I mean there's a whole side of that story that puts the "loss" you and your employer are so eager to gloat about in a very different light.

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...the IRS did not ask the court to restrict his First Amendment rights...
Like they did with Irwin Schiff? (See here.)
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  #125  
Old 08.10.2009, 16:00
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I mean there's a whole side of that story that puts the "loss" you and your employer are so eager to gloat about in a very different light....
You seem eager to change the subject: You challenged me to produce evidence Hendrickson lost a court case; I did so. Yet, you still write "loss"; why?

Do you deny that Hendrickson lost the court case??

p.s. You wrote quite clearly that if I could produce corroboration that Hendrickson lost a court case, you would retract your "groan." I did, but you have not. Is your word worthless ?
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  #126  
Old 08.10.2009, 16:03
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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...sending a bomb in the mail... I call it terrorism...
I call that not having your facts straight (it wasn't a "bomb," it wasn't "sent" anywhere, and there's plenty of ambiguity about both what "injury" was caused and Hendrickson's ultimate, actual role in the final event). Here's the other side of that story, straight from the source:
"On "tax day" in 1990, a simple smoke-maker was placed in a collection bin at the post office in Royal Oak, Michigan, in full view of dozens of people who were on hand to protest the income tax, dozens more dropping their returns in the bin, and several postal workers. The device consisted of a padded mailing envelope, containing a couple of teaspoons of loose black powder, a smoke agent and a fuse. It was addressed to "The Tax Thieves" from "Freedom-Loving Americans", and contained a tea bag-- a symbolic expression sufficient unto itself, I trust... and the same sort of tea bag now used in hundreds of protests occurring around the nation today. The object was both to protest the outrage of the tax, and to help let the many others who felt the same way around the country know that they were not alone.

"I had a hand in the planning of this event, and in assembling the smoke-maker, as well. In the end, though, I concluded that the plan should be aborted. My "colleagues" disregarded my objections and proceeded anyway.

"Nonetheless, in part because the person who DID plant the thing lied about his own involvement during a grand jury inquiry in such a fashion as to point the investigation at me, I ended up charged with doing so (in the most elaborate, multi-offense fashion possible), and my wife was charged with furnishing some materials used in the device.

"Perhaps because the protest was extraordinarily effective (it made the papers halfway around the world-- I have a copy of a newspaper from Guam in which the incident is breathlessly reported), the government found it necessary from the beginning to try to subvert the reality into something that could be portrayed as heinous, so as to distract from the event's actual message. Thus, although what really happened didn't merit it, the fictional version-- a "fire-bombing"-- inflexibly demanded a sacrifice, and the government insisted on prosecuting both of us.

"On the day before jury selection was to begin, being faced with a judge who did not uphold a single one of our pre-trial motions, and in fact, made clear that he was hostile to us, rather than objective, I agreed to plead "guilty" to a charge of "conspiracy to possess a destructive device". In exchange, all charges against my wife were dropped, ensuring that she would be free to care for our infant daughter. This was how I came to be under the authority of a judge in the early nineties, as I relate in the foreword of CtC.

"(I was given a three-year sentence. Afterwards, urged to do so by my court-appointed attorney with the assurance that it would simply result in a more just sentence, I explained the real nature of the affair to the prosecutors-- that it was merely a protest, and that not only had I not planted the device, but I had ultimately objected to its being planted. I offered to substantiate this with a polygraph.

"The prosecutors-- disingenuously-- proclaimed the outcomes of two separate polygraphs to be "inconclusive". Eventually, my wife and I managed to record a conversation with the fellow who actually had planted the smoke-maker which substantiated everything I had said about the affair. In the end, this led to a reduction in my sentence.)

"Not the best time in my life, certainly; but not what the government absurdly fabricates in its efforts to attack me, either.

"By the way, although the government has occasionally alluded darkly to a postal worker being injured by the smoke-maker, this is not true-- or, at least, you can judge for yourself from the following facts: On the last day possible to do so under the statute of limitations, one of the postal workers who had been at the scene was persuaded to file suit against my wife and me, and the others accused of involvement in the incident. He claimed that his eyes were "hurt by the flash" when the thing went off-- a vague and unsubstantiable injury complained of by no one else present at the time.

"My wife and I challenged this opportunistic allegation, and the fellow happily abandoned the matter and disappeared, after being paid $500 to do so by a homeowner's insurance policy carrier which had agreed to defend against the suit. As I said, you be the judge."
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  #127  
Old 08.10.2009, 16:41
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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You seem eager to change the subject: You challenged me to produce evidence Hendrickson lost a court case; I did so. Yet, you still write "loss"; why?

Do you deny that Hendrickson lost the court case??

p.s. You wrote quite clearly that if I could produce corroboration that Hendrickson lost a court case, you would retract your "groan." I did, but you have not. Is your word worthless ?
I don't consider it "changing the subject" to insist that the whole story be told.

I have removed my groan in keeping to my word, but I still write "loss" precisely because your simplistically categorizing it as a "loss" to the exclusion of the rest of the story, including a subsequent "Not for Publication"(!) Court of Appeals ruling, which says $4K, not $20+K is misleading at best. (Noteworthy is the fact that your employer's attempt to have that decision rendered for publication was denied by the court, making only more hollow the "victory" you seem determined to portray the case as.)
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  #128  
Old 08.10.2009, 17:44
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I have removed my groan in keeping to my word,
Thank you.

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I still write "loss" precisely because your simplistically categorizing it as a "loss" to the exclusion of the rest of the story, including a subsequent "Not for Publication"(!) Court of Appeals ruling, which says $4K, not $20+K is misleading at best.
Simplistic?? He lost in Circuit Court, he lost in Appeals Court, and the Supreme Court refused his petition. He lost. Three times.

Re the amount Hendrickson paid: You are mistaken; I cannot quite understand why you are incapable of reading the court decisions. Hendrickson was ordered to pay $20K plus interest in taxes, and in addition he was fined $4k for filing a frivolous tax return.

What you term "the rest of the story" is Hendrickson's take on his defeats. You're entitled to believe him, but for the rest of us a person who is under a federal court's permanent injunction against filing "fraudulent tax documents" is a person who clearly does not understand the US tax code.
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  #129  
Old 08.10.2009, 18:35
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

jwalker46 - I know you said that you aren't with the IRS, the US government or any affiliates (in another thread), but I am curious how you know so much about tax codes and how the law is applied?
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  #130  
Old 08.10.2009, 19:02
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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He lost in Circuit Court, he lost in Appeals Court, and the Supreme Court refused his petition...
Right, in two instances, tax-feeders in robes, at the urging of their fellow tax-feeders from IRS/DOJ, agreed to call his tax returns "fraudulent" (even though the Treasury's testimony was that he owed no tax) and the second (the Appeals Court) rather conspicuously and deliberately made sure their decision could not serve as a "published" precedent, rendering it useless to IRS/DOJ for future prosecutions. (Care to explain why they did that?)

And yes, the Supreme tax-feeders in robes refused to touch the (still-)unprecedented question of whether a court can order a private citizen to change his/her sworn testimony. So what? It's obvious what a can of worms that would open, so it's not all that surprising in fact, they were probably doing you and your colleagues a favor.

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Re the amount Hendrickson paid: You are mistaken; I cannot quite understand why you are incapable of reading the court decisions...
I can read them just fine. I just don't share your eagerness to believe any particular "court decision" is in fact the final word in a given matter much like Pearl Harbor isn't exactly indicative of the outcome of WWII.

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...a person who is under a federal court's permanent injunction against filing "fraudulent tax documents" is a person who clearly does not understand the US tax code.
Except that many hundreds (if not thousands) of other folks are not "under a federal court's permanent injunction against filing 'fraudulent tax documents'" even though they have likewise relied on Hendrickson's research in filing their tax documents during the past six years, and have likewise received confirmation from Treasury that they owed no tax. If all these people a small minority of Americans who have actually taken the time to examine the US tax code nevertheless "clearly do not understand the US tax code" (as you say), then one certainly can't be blamed for wondering why those who supposedly do "understand the US tax code" haven't been able to "correct" their error.
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  #131  
Old 09.10.2009, 11:59
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Sorry to interrupt with the original topic.

I have a reply from Postfinance:

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Dear Mr xxx,

Thank you for your e-mail.We do not open accounts for U.S. citizens if they are living in the U.S. or abroad, but if your domicile is in Switzerland or in one of the neighbouring countries we will be glad to open an account for you.

Simply go to next Post office to fill out the opening forms, please remember to bring your passport and residence permit with you.

We're pleased to answer your further questions.

Yours sincerely,

xxx xxx
Customer Service
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  #132  
Old 12.10.2009, 16:38
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

I've opened an account with UBS. I brought my residence permit, passport, work contract, and apartment lease. It is a basic package of banking essentials (personal acct, savings acct, Maestro card, etc) and it's free for the first year. This answers the question about US persons opening accounts here.

UBS has an English language call center which is why I gave up on the Postfinance idea.

Anyone know if there's a local equivalent to the FDIC and how well-protected I'd be if UBS goes under?
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  #133  
Old 12.10.2009, 20:53
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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.... Anyone know if there's a local equivalent to the FDIC and how well-protected I'd be if UBS goes under?
CHF 100'000 insured for all your accounts with one Bank.
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  #134  
Old 12.10.2009, 21:10
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Some people don't realize it includes the 3rd Pillar in the 100000chf.
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  #135  
Old 12.10.2009, 21:21
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Some people don't realize it includes the 3rd Pillar in the 100000chf.
Ceiling for sum of all your relationships including joint accounts.
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  #136  
Old 13.10.2009, 11:09
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I agree with this to a point; it certainly is the minority making an issue for the honest majority - but the blame lies all over the place.
I beg to differ ... the blame lies solely and completely with the US Government. Typically well meaning, but always incompetent, bumbling, and a victim of unintended consequences.
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  #137  
Old 13.10.2009, 11:11
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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Yeah, I figured out what you meant. However, I can't imagine that would even begin to be legal, and it sounds to me like urban legend. You can't force someone to remain a citizen if he or she chooses to give up citizenship.

ummm... the government makes the law, and hence is neither required to be logical or legal.
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  #138  
Old 15.07.2014, 04:18
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

I need to have a swiss account while I'm a student here (2 years). Is it going to be impossible? How do I pay rent.. with cash?!
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  #139  
Old 15.07.2014, 04:53
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

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I need to have a swiss account while I'm a student here (2 years). Is it going to be impossible? How do I pay rent.. with cash?!
pink slips, Die Poste, plus 15 minutes
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  #140  
Old 15.07.2014, 08:17
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Re: US citizens have difficulty opening accounts with Post Finance?

Don't pink slips require a bank account? This is really not funny; my options are to.. 1. carry cash around with me and risk getting mugged 2. keep cash in my room and risk getting broken into 3. open a bank account like a normal person in the 21st century and.. oh wait.
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