Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12.10.2009, 15:38
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aarburg
Posts: 216
Groaned at 6 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
benneesom has earned some respectbenneesom has earned some respect
Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Hi, lots of posts on here re the same topic but earning ABOVE 120k, however, I'm not that fortunate. :-)

I will break down my situation.

Removed due to worries of personal information

I see if you earn over 120k, you can fill in a form and submit a tax refund, however, what if you earn below?

My final salary plus relocation bonus and rental payments will be way below 120k combined.

Help greatly appreciated. Cheers

Last edited by benneesom; 12.01.2010 at 16:34. Reason: Removed due to worries of personal information
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12.10.2009, 16:31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Biel/Bienne
Posts: 310
Groaned at 32 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
hollisterb is considered unworthyhollisterb is considered unworthyhollisterb is considered unworthyhollisterb is considered unworthyhollisterb is considered unworthy
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Quote:
View Post
Hi, lots of posts on here re the same topic but earning ABOVE 120k, however, I'm not that fortunate. :-)

I will break down my situation.

June 09 - Moved to CH. First pay check @ 10.4% tax
July 09 - Employer pays me CHF9000 relocation bonus - all taxed at 20%
Aug/Sep/Oct 09 - Employer pays my rent onto salary - all rent also taxed at 10.4%

I see if you earn over 120k, you can fill in a form and submit a tax refund, however, what if you earn below?

My final salary plus relocation bonus and rental payments will be way below 120k combined.

Help greatly appreciated. Cheers
Yep I'm same boat as Ben - any help appreciated
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12.10.2009, 16:48
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 2,421
Groaned at 24 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 3,266 Times in 1,388 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

I had a chat with a tax advisor about this last week. I can't speak for your cantons, but in Zurich it's tough luck: You are unable to reclaim it. All you can do is submit a letter stating material unusual deductions you would like to take into consideration e.g. extra pension contributions, business related training or loan interest.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12.10.2009, 17:00
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

I thought you could request to do a tax return even if you did earn under 120k? although a tax consultant is going to cost you around 1k chf, and then you might (read very likely) get a further tax demand. I am taxed at source and the only reason I got a tax rebate the first couple of years I was here was the expat allowances, but if your a permie you don't get those, otherwise I'd have owed the tax office about 3k more tax per year.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03.11.2009, 11:35
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aarburg
Posts: 216
Groaned at 6 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
benneesom has earned some respectbenneesom has earned some respect
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Hi Bigblue, I'm on a B permit, am I entitled to Expat allowances?

Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03.11.2009, 11:39
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tee Chee No?
Posts: 1,843
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,485 Times in 713 Posts
Boxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

my accountant costs significantly less than 1000 francs per year. If you're paying so much then you're either complicated or have not shopped around.

Expat allowances are usually for those with property abroad, IIRC. It is also per-canton as to what is permitted and what you avoid.

Finding a tax advisor, consultant or accountant
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03.11.2009, 11:45
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aarburg
Posts: 216
Groaned at 6 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
benneesom has earned some respectbenneesom has earned some respect
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

I have a house abroad, I rent it at a loss due to the poor market in England. I will try to find info on expat allowances!! Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03.11.2009, 11:53
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Quote:
View Post
I have a house abroad, I rent it at a loss due to the poor market in England. I will try to find info on expat allowances!! Cheers

If you are permie your not entitled to expat allowances, if you have changed your job your not entitled either, you need to be on a technical contract with a fixed end date, although it doesn't matter if it over runs, as long as your new contract says roughly the same.

The 1k chf is roughly what a tax consultant will charge for your initial return, subsequent returns are cheaper
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03.11.2009, 13:53
ChrisW's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lausanne (or out on my bike)
Posts: 1,780
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 856 Times in 495 Posts
ChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

I successfully claimed back extra tax paid during 2007 even though our family income was below 120k. I realized that I had been taxed me at source at the wrong rate all year. I had to submit a form before March 31st of the next year (2008), and was reimbursed during August 2008. When I went into the local tax office in Lausanne to get the forms in late March, the secretary I spoke to called someone down to meet me, who took me to a private meeting room and explained everything that I needed to know to complete the forms and make the application. I was very impressed with the service I received (and with myself for being able to do it all in French ). Hopefully something similar is possible for you, and if you're lucky then you may find an equally helpful person in your local tax office.
__________________
Cycling in Switzerland | Photo blog (mostly travel pics from Switzerland)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03.11.2009, 13:54
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aarburg
Posts: 216
Groaned at 6 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
benneesom has earned some respectbenneesom has earned some respect
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Thanks Chris, there must be loads of people out there that pay too much given the 13th salary
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03.11.2009, 16:20
Middletay's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Middletay has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Not sure if it helps your particular situation, but a friend showed me this form recently for those who pay quellensteuer but want to claim a refund for certain expenses...(pension, childcare, further education). Maybe someone who's a bit better at German could help translate it?

http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/form...trag-e01r7.pdf

Just noticed you're not in Zürich but maybe your canton has the same sort of thing.

Last edited by Middletay; 03.11.2009 at 16:42.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03.11.2009, 16:28
ChrisW's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lausanne (or out on my bike)
Posts: 1,780
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 856 Times in 495 Posts
ChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond reputeChrisW has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

The reason I was paying too much tax was because at the time I had an 80% contract. To figure out my tax-at-source rate, my employer for some reason assumed that I had another job with an equal pay rate, with a 20% contract, so they took the tax rate based on the assumption that I'm actually earning a 100% wage, and used this rate on the 80% wage that they were paying me. I've since figured out which forms to fill in to assure them that I don't have another job, and they now use the appropriate tax rate.

Figuring out the right rate of tax-at-source when you have a the 13th month is normally not a problem. My wife gets paid like that and the total tax she pays by the end of the year agrees perfectly with my calculations (and she only has a 80% contract too, but her employer appears to have made the correct assumption that this is her only income).

My advice to everyone is to get the tax-at-source tables from your canton, and figure out the exact amount of tax that you should be paying and compare it to what you are paying. There are multiple reasons why they might differ. If you find this is wrong before the tax year is finished, then you should sort this out with your employer, and I believe that they can adjust the amount of tax you pay in future months to correct it for previous months. But, if the tax year has finished then you need to fill out other forms through the local tax office.

I believe that you can only make a claim for a tax refund when earning under 120k if you believe that the tax-at-source that you have paid is not what it should have been. You cannot do it simply to claim additional deductions (e.g., medical expenses, commuting expenses, etc.). However, I'm no expert, so hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I did the sums at the end of last year to see whether we would save any money if we could file a complete tax return. After trying to come up with all of the deductions possible, it appeared that the tax-at-source that we had paid was within a very small margin of what we would pay by filing a complete tax return. I was therefore quite impressed that this simple percentage that they use for tax-at-source works out reasonably accurately, at least for us (but there are so many other variables that are ignored with tax-at-source that I'm sure there are other people who are paying significantly more or less tax than they need to, but can't do much about it unless they earn more than 120k).
__________________
Cycling in Switzerland | Photo blog (mostly travel pics from Switzerland)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ChrisW for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 03.11.2009, 19:30
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,571
Groaned at 129 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 7,991 Times in 3,725 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Quote:
View Post
Hi Bigblue, I'm on a B permit, am I entitled to Expat allowances?

Cheers
I've had several discussions about the tax treatment of expats in the Kanton of Aargau. Having a B permit does not determine whether you are an expat or not.
This is a very basic definition I was given in writing about the definition of an expat in Kt. Aargau.
"An expatriate is a person with a limited work contract (max. 5 years) and with their main domicile in another country."
I have two documents (only in German) outlining the rules. You should talk to your employer (they should have this information)..perhaps they can refer you to a tax person too.

Whether someone is an expat or not has only been an issue for me with clients who send their children to international school and whether these fees are deductible. (depends who pays them)

Relocation allowance is a taxable benefit (you got a nice allowance, I have to say that .....very generous).
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03.11.2009, 20:40
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aarburg
Posts: 216
Groaned at 6 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
benneesom has earned some respectbenneesom has earned some respect
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Quote:
View Post
"An expatriate is a person with a limited work contract (max. 5 years) and with their main domicile in another country."
OK, I have a B permit limited to 5 years, and property in UK, so I guess I fulfil those criteria. Do you know what the allowances are?


Quote:
View Post
Relocation allowance is a taxable benefit (you got a nice allowance, I have to say that .....very generous).
Trouble is, it didnt last very long :-(
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03.11.2009, 20:46
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: was Ägeri now Froggeri
Posts: 3,725
Groaned at 191 Times in 160 Posts
Thanked 4,308 Times in 1,822 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

I think the limit is for the length of the employment contract not the duration of your permit. So if your job is permenant I don't think you would be eligible.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03.11.2009, 21:31
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,571
Groaned at 129 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 7,991 Times in 3,725 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Quote:
View Post
I think the limit is for the length of the employment contract not the duration of your permit. So if your job is permenant I don't think you would be eligible.

Yes, as I said in my original post, work contract is limited.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03.11.2009, 21:42
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tee Chee No?
Posts: 1,843
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,485 Times in 713 Posts
Boxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond reputeBoxman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

work contract is the key - those with EU passports, for example, have limitless permits (in theory, unless someting changes).

contractors, for example, might get good results claiming this allowance; people like me on local, permie contracts (i.e. normal employees) don't.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03.11.2009, 22:42
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aargau
Posts: 42
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Nod Glodnig has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Quote:
View Post
OK, I have a B permit limited to 5 years, and property in UK, so I guess I fulfil those criteria. Do you know what the allowances are?




Trouble is, it didnt last very long :-(
I claimed the interest on my mortgage in the UK, while being resident (my wife and children were here) - this was when interest rates in the UK were 7.5% plus- they'll want to know the value of your house (part of your "world-wide" income) and then add on a suitable rentable value to your tax bill (which is the difference between the value of the house and the mortgage which is your "real wealth" [vermogensteur] times a certain percentage), then take off all the interest payments you made - if you're paying low interest but your equity in the property is high then just keep stumm
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05.11.2009, 09:34
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aarburg
Posts: 216
Groaned at 6 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
benneesom has earned some respectbenneesom has earned some respect
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

Hi guys, had a nice chat last night with Denise Collin, she really is as mustard as everyone says. I will go and complete a tax return in January with her, I can claim back taxes paid on relocation bonus/accomodation (the part that was taxed too high).

Also there's a chance I maybe able to claim back travelling costs to UK as I go back every 3 weeks to see my son and could be classed as a international commuter.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05.11.2009, 09:53
cricketer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: near zurich
Posts: 1,196
Groaned at 29 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,051 Times in 427 Posts
cricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax Refund if taxed at source and earning BELOW CHF120k

I have had my 2008 tax return prepared by a Treuhand (also my 2007 on which I have just received a very nice rebate) here near Embrach.
She speaks excellent English, is quick and is inexpensive 150chf per return.
Obviously if your affairs are more complex the rate may be more but I provided all the docs she asked for and she has turned it around in less than 2 weeks.
If you are interested for contact details then PM me. I have already spoken to her about this and she would be happy to provide an English service for ex-pats here.(above 120 below 120 anywhere).
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tax refund prospects if paying at source and earning over 120K MikeUSA Finance/banking/taxation 29 19.06.2017 20:26
Taxed at source The_Highlander Daily life 1 02.08.2009 00:44
Tax issues - Withholding tax; advance tax; taxed pro-rata; and moving cantons Butimi Finance/banking/taxation 8 26.07.2008 18:42
Taxed at source - plus additional income... yabadabadoo Finance/banking/taxation 0 30.04.2008 20:47
Quellensteuer - Taxed at source hugh_abu Finance/banking/taxation 3 09.03.2007 14:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0