Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31.10.2009, 12:23
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 126
Groaned at 60 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts
TapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthy
question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Hello,

I live in Zurich and have a B permit and therefore pay taxes on the source "Quellensteuer". On 2007 my total income was slightly above 200K so I had to do the declaration but I have a tax firm that does it for me. Each year I pay the maximum 3-Saule and the firm deducted the maximum possible in all other aspects e.g. transportation, etc etc. The tax on my assets is zero since I save too little.

Now what surprises me is that I still owe to the tax office something around 6300.-Sfr I checked with the tax office and they said is correct. The tax firm also confirmed the calculations to be correct but I do not understand is this normal that the tax on the source is lower than the total tax due at the end of the year? Is it a common issue?

Many thanks in advance,
Best regards,
Me
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 31.10.2009, 13:09
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,180 Times in 738 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Are you married? Does your employer have all of the correct
information?

I will owe money because my employer had me listed as single
and not married.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 31.10.2009, 13:12
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rolle
Posts: 125
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Kristofolo has earned some respectKristofolo has earned some respect
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

That happened to me too when I was taxed at source.

I had a B permit at the time and was earning more than 120'000CHF. I filed my return and tought that was it.

A few months later, I got another tax bill. From what I understood, the Quellensteur goes mainly to Staat und Gemeindesteurn but then you need to pay Bundessteuer. And I think that what the 2nd payment is about.

I am no tax expert, this is just what I figured out. Maybe it will make you feel better that somebody else got an extra bill.....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kristofolo for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 31.10.2009, 13:37
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 126
Groaned at 60 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts
TapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthy
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Hello,

Thank you for you reply and support.

Indeed I am not married and no religion therefore I should be paying the maximum .. but still I expect the Quellensteuer to cover all my due tax or? given that I have none on assets.

Am I missing something? If needed I can provide some specific numbers e.g. I checked and I was being deducted around 2500CHF in Quellensteuer every month. That makes 30K total Quellensteuer. Plus I was paid 20K bonus from which I paid 6K Quellensteuer. Intuitively I also expected this to influence positively my end declaration because with the bonus I overpaid tax that month with respect to the whole year.

Any ideas? I have consistently have this since I have been living in CH. I always have to pay something around 5K to the tax office

What can be wrong? And yes I would feel much better if someone around my same situation would be getting similar due bills

Many thanks in advance,
Best regards
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 31.10.2009, 13:43
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,746
Groaned at 75 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 2,649 Times in 1,194 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

That may very well be correct. The quellensteuer is calculated to be an average of all the Gemeindes. If you e.g. live in a high-tax Gemeinde, once you hit the 120 KCHF mark you may very well end up in a situation where you need to pay more than what has already been deducted as Quellensteuer.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tilia for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 31.10.2009, 15:03
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Apparently, many people think that tax-deducted-at-source is higher than the tax liability when filing. This is not true.

Tilia correctly points out that TDS is calculated on average tax rates. By definition, half the TDS payers are paying too little and the other half too much.

Moreover, truthful filing implies revealing global income and assets, which are then taxed too.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Goldtop for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 31.10.2009, 15:37
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 126
Groaned at 60 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts
TapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthy
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Thank you very much for your replies! very helpful.

Now the question would be what can be done to offset such difference or extra due tax ... my best guess is to continue beefing up the 3-Seule to the maximum or even pay an even greater amount into the 2-Säule...

Shall I be concerned throwing money at the 2-Säule? paying the known "gap" meaning if the bank holding the 2-Säule goes bankrupt then I lost all or?

The "filling the 2-Säule gap" strategy would only work for a year or two though because once the gap is filled I am back to square one ... any other ideas? e.g. move away from Zürich to e.g. Thalwil? or rent a 1x1 sqr meter room in Kanton Schwyz or in some cave in a mountain and still live comfortably in Zürich how many rich dudes do

Thanks in advance,
Best regards
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 31.10.2009, 16:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,471
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,996 Times in 1,189 Posts
CH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond repute
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Quote:
View Post
I am no tax expert, this is just what I figured out. Maybe it will make you feel better that somebody else got an extra bill.....
We used to always pay more after we submitted the tax declaration. Once our Quellensteuer wasn't calculated correctly and we got a huge bill. Having a kid meant a deduction and a tax refund - so you could try that :-)

We were advised to get debts here (mortgage) to pay less asset taxes. All our gap years in our pensions were paid up in our first year of working here, but it wasn't enough to make a big difference.

I'm wondering how you alone can manage to spend what's left of CHF 200k after taxes each year and have no assets
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank CH_Me for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 31.10.2009, 19:04
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rolle
Posts: 125
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Kristofolo has earned some respectKristofolo has earned some respect
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Quote:
View Post
I'm wondering how you alone can manage to spend what's left of CHF 200k after taxes each year and have no assets
It crossed my mind too.... Wouldn't it cross the taxman's mind?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 31.10.2009, 19:12
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Quote:
View Post
.... Shall I be concerned throwing money at the 2-Säule? paying the known "gap" meaning if the bank holding the 2-Säule goes bankrupt then I lost all or? ....
Pillar-2 funds are usually in a trust structure. So it is unlikely that you suffer a total loss. However, if the trust makes unwise investments, then the assets could suffer.

The recent financial crisis has resulted in many pension trusts with less assets than their liabilities.
According to this parliamentary report
http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seit...ch_id=20093216
the majority of Swiss pension plans are in deficit and some only have assets 85% of liabilities.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 31.10.2009, 19:19
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Quote:
View Post
It crossed my mind too.... Wouldn't it cross the taxman's mind?
Tax returns (at least in ZH) are analyzed using sophisticated software. High income but no assets is certainly alarmed. Such a return would be flagged and scrutinized.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 31.10.2009, 19:26
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 126
Groaned at 60 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts
TapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthy
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Quote:
View Post
It crossed my mind too.... Wouldn't it cross the taxman's mind?
Well, it crosses my mind all the time actually

I said my assets are too low as to be taxable so my tax on assets is zero but my assets actually lie around little more than 80K plus the 80K I have on my 2-Säule of course.

But is true my lifestyle is unsustainable I know : sports car, shopping trips, multiple lux holidays and going to cuba 2x per year where I ussually leave quite a few Ks to support my relatives ... that easily makes up to what's left of 200K, carpe diem!

Cheers
PS: I probably need to get a financial advisor ...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 31.10.2009, 21:56
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 126
Groaned at 60 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts
TapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthyTapiroLee is considered unworthy
Re: question on tax on the source "Quellensteuer"

Quote:
View Post
Tax returns (at least in ZH) are analyzed using sophisticated software. High income but no assets is certainly alarmed. Such a return would be flagged and scrutinized.
Ohhh, this might explain why I received the tax report and bill from the tax office only a week ago instead of May/September .. maybe they found my case very interesting too ... well after all, big spenders like me are the ones who keep the economy moving
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Q&A] Quellensteuer (tax at source for expats) muze7 Finance/banking/taxation 77 18.06.2018 18:52
Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens Felix Finance/banking/taxation 100 12.07.2011 15:27
What is "Hyper - Balance?" Denist Question Powerlauer Daily life 0 04.09.2009 17:40
Quellensteuer (Tax at Source) babyfame General off-topic 77 25.03.2009 12:30
What are "Withholding Tax" and "Wealth Tax"? BeastOfBodmin Finance/banking/taxation 1 26.08.2007 21:00


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0