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Old 10.05.2007, 12:46
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Tax - Surprise!!!

Hi again
Well I got the job, and was happy with the offer, around 115,000chf, and some other benefits, free health insurance is one.
But the total tax was a big Surprise!!
I thought it would be around 19-25 %, but no, the total is over 33%, when I add the following.

Swiss Social Security 5,05%
Unemployement Insurance 1,00%
Maternite Insurance 0,02%
Old Age Pension Fund 7,00%


Taxes at Source 19,85%

Total tax 32,92%

after the extra 13% tax, the offer is not so good any more…..
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Old 10.05.2007, 12:50
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

don't confuse tax with deductions
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Old 10.05.2007, 12:51
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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Hi again
Well I got the job, and was happy with the offer, around 115,000chf, and some other benefits, free health insurance is one.
But the total tax was a big Surprise!!
I thought it would be around 19-25 %, but no, the total is over 33%, when I add the following.

Swiss Social Security 5,05%
Unemployement Insurance 1,00%
Maternite Insurance 0,02%
Old Age Pension Fund 7,00%


Taxes at Source 19,85%

Total tax 32,92%

after the extra 13% tax, the offer is not so good any more…..

Can see where your coming from, but remeber VAT here doesn't run up to 24%, which I understand is the current rate in Norway? So you will get more bang for your buck.

33% tax rate, including all the stuff you have documented is pretty generous when you compare to any other Wester European nation, try the UK for example once you include NI contributions.

My two rappens worth.
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Old 10.05.2007, 12:52
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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Hi again



Taxes at Source 19,85%
The taxes at source (Quellensteuer) gets partly refunded if you have your income properly taxed in Switzerland.
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:16
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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The taxes at source (Quellensteuer) gets partly refunded if you have your income properly taxed in Switzerland.

how's the tax refund work by the way? I have permit B and I got taxed at source too. I am totally new to this things, even back in my home country, I was confused with our tax system too.
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:26
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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don't confuse tax with deductions
what is the difference?? both gose out your pocket...

This realy made my mood go down....
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:30
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

Yes but in the UK for example you pay 33% tax.
Then a pension, council tax and if you have private health care, that goes on as well.
So the 33% tax goes up to over 50% of your income.
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:32
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

You can avoid some tax with a little work. But frankly, I don't work that hard to avoid tax - the rates are that low anyway. If you're willing to be flexible where you live, you can reduce that exposure (tax).

You should see the benefits of at least 12% of the deductions.

If you can't then you are not being forced to take the job.

I think the Swiss taxation system is largely spot-on. If you don't want to pay tax, look for a job in one of these places: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:33
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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what is the difference?? both gose out your pocket...

This realy made my mood go down....
*sigh*

The difference is that the 7% which you pay in the pension fund are actually savings that belong to you and are matched by another at least 7% paid in by the company, which also belong to you.

The 1% unemployment... you won't fully appreciate it until you'll get to receive unemployment benefits.
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:33
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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how's the tax refund work by the way? I have permit B and I got taxed at source too. I am totally new to this things, even back in my home country, I was confused with our tax system too.
you fill out a tax return and hope for the best.

Oh how sick you'll feel to hear I am just about to pay 2005 taxes
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:36
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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what is the difference?? both gose out your pocket...

This realy made my mood go down....
You could try moving to a place that has a lower 'Steuerfuss', try using the 'steuerrechner' on homegate.ch to calculate the taxes you'd pay in different places... Anybody know any good low tax areas around Geneva? I don't have too much knowledge of the area.
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:41
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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*sigh*

The difference is that the 7% which you pay in the pension fund are actually savings that belong to you and are matched by another at least 7% paid in by the company, which also belong to you.

The 1% unemployment... you won't fully appreciate it until you'll get to receive unemployment benefits.
So you are saing that 14% is something I can take out when ever I like? or put in to a house etc?
Can I cash out the pension fund if I am to move back?
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:42
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

7% is AVH which sits there until you retire. There is another thread about pensions so search and you will find.

Depends where you are going as to what you can take out. Leaving so soon?
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Old 10.05.2007, 13:48
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

if u pay quellensteuer you will generally pay too much tax and have the right to fill in a return if ur income is more than 120k p.a.

this income can include rental income from abroad for example.

otherwise if u make pillar 3 payments to an additional pension you can fill in a return on this basis too.

whatever happens the quellensteuer should be adjusted towards year end based on your final accrued income for the year if you stay at the one employer. If you look at the tax tables for your commune/canton you can check this.

When i wanna fill in a return I just make out I have additional income from abroad i wanna 'declare' especially if in your 1st year it's partial and then they send you a return. worked for me here in zurich and bern since i got here and i got it every year since with 3-7k refunded per year even without 3rd pillar.

7% pension matched by your employer is excellent. Minimum can be lower depending on age so be happy.

Or you don't like saving?

Otherwise marry a Swissie so you no longer pay tax at source or wait 5 years for your C permit

HTH
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Old 10.05.2007, 14:03
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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if u pay quellensteuer you will generally pay too much tax and have the right to fill in a return if ur income is more than 120k p.a.

this income can include rental income from abroad for example.

otherwise if u make pillar 3 payments to an additional pension you can fill in a return on this basis too.

whatever happens the quellensteuer should be adjusted towards year end based on your final accrued income for the year if you stay at the one employer. If you look at the tax tables for your commune/canton you can check this.

When i wanna fill in a return I just make out I have additional income from abroad i wanna 'declare' especially if in your 1st year it's partial and then they send you a return. worked for me here in zurich and bern since i got here and i got it every year since with 3-7k refunded per year even without 3rd pillar.

7% pension matched by your employer is excellent. Minimum can be lower depending on age so be happy.

Or you don't like saving?

Otherwise marry a Swissie so you no longer pay tax at source or wait 5 years for your C permit

HTH
Okay, the more I read, the better is geting, my mood is on its way up again

But are you saing, that after 5 years when I will get the C permit, I don't need to pay the 19,85 Taxes at Source?
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Old 10.05.2007, 14:39
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

Just a point, you say you have secured health insurance. This is a good benefit (not to be sniffed at one might say).
For a single person, health insurance costs between 350 and 500 CHF per month (Depending on where you live). For a family, that can go up to CHF1300 or more. For an exact quote see www.comparis.ch
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Old 10.05.2007, 14:44
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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Just a point, you say you have secured health insurance. This is a good benefit (not to be sniffed at one might say).
For a single person, health insurance costs between 350 and 500 CHF per month (Depending on where you live). For a family, that can go up to CHF1300 or more. For an exact quote see www.comparis.ch
JuJu .... think you need to look into what you are paying .. for example we family of three (2 adults, 1 18 mth old) have "halb privat" for 850chf per month ....
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Old 10.05.2007, 14:48
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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Yes but in the UK for example you pay 33% tax.
Then a pension, council tax and if you have private health care, that goes on as well.
So the 33% tax goes up to over 50% of your income.
Ha, 33% - I wish. Where the UK salaries compare to here (in the City of London), you would be paying a minimum of 40% base tax plus NI, etc - this normally comes out to about 50-60% stoppages. Then either your cost of living is really high or your commute cost is high (in time and money).

Been there, done that and hated every minute of it.
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Old 10.05.2007, 14:52
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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Ha, 33% - I wish. Where the UK salaries compare to here (in the City of London), you would be paying a minimum of 40% base tax plus NI, etc - this normally comes out to about 50-60% stoppages. Then either your cost of living is really high or your commute cost is high (in time and money).

Been there, done that and hated every minute of it.

Indeed, worked out that I was pretty much working until July for the governement when I lived in UK .... now its more like mid-April ....
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Old 10.05.2007, 15:00
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Re: Tax - Surprise!!!

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JuJu .... think you need to look into what you are paying .. for example we family of three (2 adults, 1 18 mth old) have "halb privat" for 850chf per month ....
All I can think of is that it's dearer in Basel than in Bern. I am in a similar family situation and my bill is CHF1100 and they have included "exclusions" on several possible illnesses. I did shop around, 'twas not the absolute cheapest but suited me better on the cover provided. My highest quote was close to CHF 1300.

Last edited by JuJu; 10.05.2007 at 15:02. Reason: Forgot the last point
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