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-   -   Financial Mis-selling to expats (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/71732-financial-mis-selling-expats.html)

Uncle Max 13.03.2011 15:21

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swans1984 (Post 1131376)
If you belive this, shwo the proof where and who are the 37 branches

You're being rather defensive there, swans1984. If you work for such a company, understandably you may feel a tad slighted at people anonymously posting messages of caution, but surely it would be better to declare and give some feedback rather than adding fuel? I can't see people deliberately posting warnings to others for sh!ts and giggles alone.

I know several people who've worked in such brass plate hot houses and the stories of hard selling would make a sailor blush. In the interests of fairness, we do ask people to be specific about their complaints rather than just saying "Entity X is a dodgy house: avoid!!!!!", as we would with any other business.

Considering the investments made and frequency with which complaints are made on this Forum alone, it's in the community interest to expose dodgy tactics and completely legitimate to complain about poor service. Company reps are welcome to reply, as did a certain car hire service manager on another thread recently. He was transparent and he rescued his company's PR to this Forum's 60,000+ members.

Just sayin'...

swans1984 13.03.2011 19:25

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Max (Post 1133813)
You're being rather defensive there, swans1984. If you work for such a company, understandably you may feel a tad slighted at people anonymously posting messages of caution, but surely it would be better to declare and give some feedback rather than adding fuel? I can't see people deliberately posting warnings to others for sh!ts and giggles alone.

I know several people who've worked in such brass plate hot houses and the stories of hard selling would make a sailor blush. In the interests of fairness, we do ask people to be specific about their complaints rather than just saying "Entity X is a dodgy house: avoid!!!!!", as we would with any other business.

Considering the investments made and frequency with which complaints are made on this Forum alone, it's in the community interest to expose dodgy tactics and completely legitimate to complain about poor service. Company reps are welcome to reply, as did a certain car hire service manager on another thread recently. He was transparent and he rescued his company's PR to this Forum's 60,000+ members.

Just sayin'...

No i dont work for any of these companies,but on this forum seems people have nothing better to do than make pathetic threads up and complain, if people have had bad experiences like you said they should say about them but at the moment its all hear say and Chinese whispers.

By making these calls people are only doing their job, would its better than claiming the social

Doctor 13.03.2011 19:48

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swans1984 (Post 1133977)
No i dont work for any of these companies,but on this forum seems people have nothing better to do than make pathetic threads up and complain, if people have had bad experiences like you said they should say about them but at the moment its all hear say and Chinese whispers.

By making these calls people are only doing their job, would its better than claiming the social

If you ask me, YES!

I did work in a computershop once, where the owner advertised a computer at CHF 949, and when the customer called and asked about it, he interrupted him and said it was a huge success and is already sold out. we dont have it anymore, but I can offer another one, it is almost the same, it just has a bigger Harddisk and custs CHF 100 more.

When I worked for him, and picked up the phone and fired off that line, I was "only doing my job", but I still feel, I cheated the customers.

When they are "only doing their job", people may end up loosing their savings, and end up paying a large amount of charges for nothing.

I have a principle: If a company is cold-calling me to sell their product, it is not good enough, that people would actually want to buy it.

dino 13.03.2011 20:33

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 17clarence (Post 1128217)
Well, as no-one has ever come forward to say that they have actually turned a profit out of a product sold by one of these companies, you may well be correct.

Or is there someone out there who has ?????

yes, the guy who sells you the product. he always makes money off it.

swans1984 13.03.2011 20:33

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor (Post 1134005)
If you ask me, YES!

I did work in a computershop once, where the owner advertised a computer at CHF 949, and when the customer called and asked about it, he interrupted him and said it was a huge success and is already sold out. we dont have it anymore, but I can offer another one, it is almost the same, it just has a bigger Harddisk and custs CHF 100 more.

When I worked for him, and picked up the phone and fired off that line, I was "only doing my job", but I still feel, I cheated the customers.

When they are "only doing their job", people may end up loosing their savings, and end up paying a large amount of charges for nothing.

I have a principle: If a company is cold-calling me to sell their product, it is not good enough, that people would actually want to buy it.

But in this line of business its the way the companies work. How do you know the products aint good enough have you used them, NO YOU HAVENT SO YOU CANT COMMENT CAN YOU
Like i said a number of times show proof about people losing money where are all these people.
I used to work for vodafone cold calling selling upgrades so you saying them products aint good enough cause i was cold calling

dino 13.03.2011 20:37

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swans1984 (Post 1133977)

By making these calls people are only doing their job, would its better than claiming the social

sorry. cheating people out of their pension savings is not 'doing a job'.

they would actually be better off (for the rest of us) claiming social security.

swans1984 13.03.2011 20:43

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1134044)
sorry. cheating people out of their pension savings is not 'doing a job'.

they would actually be better off (for the rest of us) claiming social security.

But like i said before where is the proof that they are cheating people
You are saying this so back it up with the proof please
What they did and which company come on show us all

Uncle Max 13.03.2011 20:56

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swans1984 (Post 1134037)
But in this line of business its the way the companies work. How do you know the products aint good enough have you used them, NO YOU HAVENT SO YOU CANT COMMENT CAN YOU
Like i said a number of times show proof about people losing money where are all these people.
I used to work for vodafone cold calling selling upgrades so you saying them products aint good enough cause i was cold calling

Getting defensive again, swans1984. Shouting doesn't help get the message across, which is a tactic still considered effective by the hot house flowers. People are making "pathetic threads" to publicise the practices of such operators, and rightly so. There's no orchestrated campaign; merely members discussing their experiences. It would be refreshing to hear one of the honourable firms responding. It would only help their PR to Switzerland's premier website for Engish speakers :rolleyes:

Putting one's financial security into the hands of rude and ill-informed peddlers is not a wise decision, but many are financially clueless and in a new land may well believe someone knocking on their door offering tales of milk and honey are pukka. Clearly, some of these barrow boys are not.

Or do you think customer - and potential customer - feedback is not valid info for EF members? Hard sales and tricky tactics are certainly not the way well regarded companies operate "in this business."

I've no idea what vodafone has to do with financial services providers :confused: Are you sure you don't have a connection to such sharp operators?

swans1984 13.03.2011 21:02

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Max (Post 1134063)
Getting defensive again, swans1984. Shouting doesn't help get the message across, which is a tactic still considered effective by the hot house flowers. People are making "pathetic threads" to publicise the practices of such operators, and rightly so. There's no orchestrated campaign; merely members discussing their experiences. It would be refreshing to hear one of the honourable firms responding. It would only help their PR to Switzerland's premier website for Engish speakers :rolleyes:

Putting one's financial security into the hands of rude and ill-informed peddlers is not a wise decision, but many are financially clueless and in a new land may well believe someone knocking on their door offering tales of milk and honey are pukka. Clearly, some of these barrow boys are not.

Or do you think customer - and potential customer - feedback is not valid info for EF members? Hard sales and tricky tactics are certainly not the way well regarded companies operate "in this business."

I've no idea what vodafone has to do with financial services providers :confused: Are you sure you don't have a connection to such sharp operators?

Im 100% sure as i dont even live or work in Switzerland anymore and definite not in finance.
It just really annoys me on this forum people have opinions but cant back them up with facts.
I was stating about vodafone as someone said cold calling means the products aint good enough i was just saying.

But you say people discussing their experience but no one is coming forward to say they have dealt with these people are they.

Uncle Max 13.03.2011 21:18

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swans1984 (Post 1134066)
Im 100% sure as i dont even live or work in Switzerland anymore and definite not in finance.
It just really annoys me on this forum people have opinions but cant back them up with facts.
I was stating about vodafone as someone said cold calling means the products aint good enough i was just saying.

But you say people discussing their experience but no one is coming forward to say they have dealt with these people are they.

Fair enough, you don't work for such operators but members are entitled to discuss their experiences, as long as they are reasonable comments. Consider, perhaps, that people may not wish to divulge their financial arrangements but will discuss their concerns. Cold calling isn't the problem; it's the behaviour of the caller. Certain advisors have developed a notorious reputation for being less than customer oriented.

glinaa 13.03.2011 21:27

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan_Zurich (Post 1131462)
I recently opened a savings account with "[company name removed after they threatened to sue]"

Since when is asking for opinion a ground to sue anyone?

KMGSUISSE 13.03.2011 21:33

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Good Evening

In response to Uncle Max thread I have the following points I would like to raise.

I am one of the directors of an IFA firm based in Switzerland who provide services to expats. The first point I would like to question is the point raised by Clarence about 37 companies being in the office block. The office block in question is one of the most prestigious office blocks in Basel and was originally the where the bank of international settlements was based.

In the block we have a private bank, three asset managers, a private equity firm, a firm of solicitors and Sun micro systems plus many other large well established businesses. To have an office in this block you need to sign a five year lease, cover all of the refurbishment costs and provide a large deposit. This is a sign of huge commitment and is not the sort of decision made by a fly by night organisation.

A good example is the Rosenthal campus in Basel, on this campus there are 30+ companies operating, including Novartis, Syngenta, BASF and more, just because there are 30 companies operating from the campus does not mean it is not all above board.

I therefore feel the comment is uncalled for and has little relevance; it would be different if we were talking about a serviced office with a post box. To provide advice in a city such as Basel or Zurich and service a niche market such as international workers a city could be serviced by five or six advisors which would mean that you would not need a big office anyway. There is a firm of financial planners based in Basel who have been established for over twenty years who operate from a multi occupancy office with only two members of staff, I do not think this is a gauge of whether they are credible and above board, they just have no need to have huge expensive premises.

I feel that our company has been unfairly labelled and associated with some other firms who may be operating in the same market place which is not fair. I would welcome a meeting with any English forum members who feel badly serviced or advised and would welcome an opportunity to address these, the title of the thread is Financial Mis-selling to expats, which means that by putting my company under this thread you are excusing us of this which is unfounded and not true. As a company we work with some of the most senior people in finance, banking, asset management and taxation both in Switzerland and internationally, who I can also ask to attend the meeting to relay any fears, if we were unregulated and miss advising none of these companies would work with us.
Unfortunately cold calling is part of the financial services industry as it is proactive rather than reactive, with cold calling you still have to establish your expertise and develop a level of trust before you can take on a client, which is exactly what you would be required to do if the business came from a referral or other form of marketing. In fact many of my clients have told me recently that many of the local banks in Switzerland are now starting to employee cold calling in an attempt to take on new clients.
I have never known any potential client phone up and ask for critical illness, income protection or life cover – but that definitely doesn’t mean they don’t have a tangible need for this, most clients don’t even know how to find this – even if they do realise they have a need. In this scenario firms offering a professional and independent service are raising awareness of important financial planning needs. I do agree that to keep being contacted is very frustrating so any company operating this marketing method should have a good data base management system to record when people request not to be contacted again.
The was a case recently in Basel where a senior executive passed away, his widow received his death in service benefits and a widow’s pension but was saddled with a huge amount of mortgage debt and three young children to bring up on a very low income as he did not have enough cover in place, this client would clearly have been in a better position had they sort good independent advice.
Mis selling to expats is a very bold statement and not one that should be made lightly, we are family run business offering professional, independent advice to the expat community. I would welcome a meeting with an English forum member to address any issues and hopefully relay any fears.
I wish you all a good evening and look forward to meeting you soon, maybe at one of the curry nights.

st2lemans 13.03.2011 21:34

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan_Zurich (Post 1131462)
I recently opened a savings account with "[company name removed after they threatened to sue]" and I'm starting to feel concerned.

This alone would make me feel concerned.

Tom

gata 13.03.2011 21:37

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swans1984 (Post 1134037)
But in this line of business its the way the companies work. How do you know the products aint good enough have you used them, NO YOU HAVENT SO YOU CANT COMMENT CAN YOU
Like i said a number of times show proof about people losing money where are all these people.
I used to work for vodafone cold calling selling upgrades so you saying them products aint good enough cause i was cold calling

I heard dozens of bad comments about those companies and no positive feedback. Im not stupid to try them after the things i heard

Guest 13.03.2011 21:43

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KMGSUISSE (Post 1134102)
Unfortunately cold calling is part of the financial services industry as it is proactive rather than reactive,


Should you, or one of your employees, ever decide to "cold-call" me at work, I would be most displeased.

I trust you chaps keep latex gloves in your office?

Treverus 13.03.2011 21:46

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swans1984 (Post 1134066)
Im 100% sure as i dont even live or work in Switzerland anymore and definite not in finance.
It just really annoys me on this forum people have opinions but cant back them up with facts.
I was stating about vodafone as someone said cold calling means the products aint good enough i was just saying.

But you say people discussing their experience but no one is coming forward to say they have dealt with these people are they.

Oh, really? When did you move? Where do you live then? In January you sent me a PM offering me financial advice. You told me you work here... :confused:

dino 13.03.2011 21:54

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KMGSUISSE (Post 1134102)
Good Evening

In response to Uncle Max thread I have the following points I would like to raise.

This must be a record of some sort ... 1st post. 2 groans already.. :D

Uncle Max 13.03.2011 21:55

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KMGSUISSE (Post 1134102)
...I am one of the directors of an IFA firm based in Switzerland who provide services to expats...

Hello and welcome to the Forum.

As you have not declared whch company your work for here - I assume it's not called KMGSUISSE as that would be a commercial name and be breaking Forum rules - we can not justly respond to your comments about unfairness against your particular firm.

I appreciate fairness is important, however, and Members are aware they ought to be reasonable in their comments and criticisms. That's not to say no criticism is tolerated; as previously mentioned members are welcome to discuss their experiences with any company.

Any company who feels they have been misrepresented may by all means justify their position; it would be a service to the community if more did so, rather than resorting immediately to lawyers.

Guest 13.03.2011 21:55

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1134131)
This must be a record of some sort ... 1st post. 2 groans already.. :D

That's what you get when you try to defend the indefensible. :)

Treverus 13.03.2011 22:02

Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats
 
Quote:

That's what you get when you try to defend the indefensible. :)
Can we leave Islam out of this thread?

I am genuinely interested in an explanation why one needs to register dozens of companies on the same address... even if the physical space is rented for five years - this does not make the practice look less shady, does it?


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