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  #121  
Old 13.04.2011, 19:35
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Well, as no-one has ever come forward to say that they have actually turned a profit out of a product sold by one of these companies, you may well be correct.

Or is there someone out there who has ?????
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....Two insurance bonds, each with different major companies. One is holding Autocall notes and the other is doing rather well in various funds and loyalty bonus on maturity. Also, QROPS and an account with their fund platform for trying my own hand at fund investing.....
Hi Stuart, as the OP I put a stake in the ground to say these products were not ideal, and worked more in the favour of the salesman rather than the purchaser. That said, you appear quite happy with what you have, despite buying the very products mentioned. I hope you do well out of them, really.

People have worked out (me included) that it could take 6 years to cover the commission on some of these products.
Did you work out the commission charged on the insurance bonds and how long it took to break even? Also, how long are they for ?
Do they have the pitfalls mentioned where 'payment holidays' still incur charges debited from your fund and increasing your payments into the fund result in higher charges whereas reducing the payments later do not result in reduced charges? etc etc.
I think you can balance the argument somewhat as the first person to come forward.
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  #122  
Old 14.04.2011, 14:03
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Hi Stuart, as the OP I put a stake in the ground to say these products were not ideal, and worked more in the favour of the salesman rather than the purchaser. That said, you appear quite happy with what you have, despite buying the very products mentioned. I hope you do well out of them, really.

People have worked out (me included) that it could take 6 years to cover the commission on some of these products.
Did you work out the commission charged on the insurance bonds and how long it took to break even? Also, how long are they for ?
Do they have the pitfalls mentioned where 'payment holidays' still incur charges debited from your fund and increasing your payments into the fund result in higher charges whereas reducing the payments later do not result in reduced charges? etc etc.
I think you can balance the argument somewhat as the first person to come forward.
Hi,

In my particular case, no agents commission was deducted from the monies invested. Just the usual charges (discounted) to buy into a fund.
As all my investments were lump sums, no payment holidays apply.

Regards,
SP
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  #123  
Old 14.04.2011, 15:24
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Hi,

In my particular case, no agents commission was deducted from the monies invested. Just the usual charges (discounted) to buy into a fund.
As all my investments were lump sums, no payment holidays apply.

Regards,
SP
Very good,but the company is not doing this work free of charge so I wonder where their income comes from
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  #124  
Old 14.04.2011, 15:53
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Very good,but the company is not doing this work free of charge so I wonder where their income comes from
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Hi,

In my particular case, no agents commission was deducted from the monies invested. Just the usual charges (discounted) to buy into a fund.
As all my investments were lump sums, no payment holidays apply.

Regards,
SP
I am guessing StuartP meant that he paid them a fee for their time, much in the way that you can at any IFA in the UK.
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  #125  
Old 14.04.2011, 15:58
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I am guessing StuartP meant that he paid them a fee for their time, much in the way that you can at any IFA in the UK.
http://www.pfhub.com/mutual-fund-terminology/#Entry and Exit Loads
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  #126  
Old 14.04.2011, 17:04
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Very good,but the company is not doing this work free of charge so I wonder where their income comes from
Perhaps they just say that they don't charge commission.
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  #127  
Old 14.04.2011, 19:59
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Perhaps they just say that they don't charge commission.
I was looking for some evidence on the commission charging but couldn't find any for the company and product I had in mind, then I stumbled across this gem:

http://boards.fool.co.uk/unregulated...spx?sort=whole

of course no-one pays commission to the salesman, that would be too transparent and would ring too many alarms bells. But they are getting their commission, off you.
Of course if the product is good, service excellent and you make plenty of money it's not a problem.
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  #128  
Old 14.04.2011, 20:01
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I was looking for some evidence on the commission charging but couldn't find any for the company and product I had in mind, then I stumbled across this gem:

http://boards.fool.co.uk/unregulated...spx?sort=whole

of course no-one pays commission to the salesman, that would be too transparent and would ring too many alarms bells. But they are getting their commission, off you.
Of course if the product is good, service excellent and you make plenty of money it's not a problem.
I agree, and this is the crux. If you invested in a property with a mortgage, you'd pay far more in interest over 25 years, but it's all in the service you do (or don't) get.
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  #129  
Old 15.04.2011, 12:04
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Perhaps they just say that they don't charge commission.
Commission paid to agent from the Companies they recommend should I (as the client) decide to use their products. I see none of this passed on to me as the client. Even in the UK it used to happen like this in my experience.

To be clear, none of my funds went through the agent. I always deal directly with the company recommended.

SP

PS. Celebrations this weekend as one of the autocall notes reached the limit on the first anniversary. 13% in 12 months........none too shabby.
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  #130  
Old 15.04.2011, 13:00
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...#ixzz1GrwSNIIQ

Seeems to be a lot of different information flying ground
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  #131  
Old 15.04.2011, 13:18
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I agree, and this is the crux. If you invested in a property with a mortgage, you'd pay far more in interest over 25 years, but it's all in the service you do (or don't) get.
Yes but a mortgage isn't a fee you pay form some clueless lad to tick boxes and hold a well-rehearsed sales speech, half of which he himself doesn't fully understand. A mortgage is a completely different category of service and the bank that sells it to you is to some degree exposing itself to your risk and may have to write off some value should you default. That risk is factored into the cost somehow.
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  #132  
Old 15.04.2011, 14:15
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Yes but a mortgage isn't a fee you pay form some clueless lad to tick boxes and hold a well-rehearsed sales speech, half of which he himself doesn't fully understand. A mortgage is a completely different category of service and the bank that sells it to you is to some degree exposing itself to your risk and may have to write off some value should you default. That risk is factored into the cost somehow.
Sort of. The risk is factored into the extra cost. There isn't much risk in lending on a 40% LTV property in central London but the bank will still make a massive percentage net profit on the loan. And not all financial advisers are clueless lads. Again, if you're getting a clueless lad, you're being ripped off. If you're getting someone who knows his stuff, it could be a bargain at twice the price. Also, the way retrocession commission (especially on funds) works is that it's the fund that pays (especially out of their annual management charges) means it's they who make less of a profit. It's not extra commission that being paid.
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  #133  
Old 15.04.2011, 14:38
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I am guessing StuartP meant that he paid them a fee for their time, much in the way that you can at any IFA in the UK.
I paid the agent (IFA) no fees.
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  #134  
Old 15.04.2011, 14:39
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Commission paid to agent from the Companies they recommend should I (as the client) decide to use their products. I see none of this passed on to me as the client. Even in the UK it used to happen like this in my experience.

To be clear, none of my funds went through the agent. I always deal directly with the company recommended.

SP

PS. Celebrations this weekend as one of the autocall notes reached the limit on the first anniversary. 13% in 12 months........none too shabby.
About "13% in 12 months" - in which currency?

I hope it is denominated in CHF otherwise you lost money?
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  #135  
Old 15.04.2011, 14:46
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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About "13% in 12 months" - in which currency?

I hope it is denominated in CHF otherwise you lost money?
You assume I want to exchange, however, this is medium term and will be reinvested in the same currency.

Never hold CHF apart from Beer money. ;-))
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  #136  
Old 15.04.2011, 14:49
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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About "13% in 12 months" - in which currency?

I hope it is denominated in CHF otherwise you lost money?
That reminds me of my S&P 500 ETFs... great performance over the past year: http://www.finanzen.net/index/S&P_500

Unfortunately did the doallr lose more than that against the CHF though... so it is more Valser than Cristal for me...
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Old 15.04.2011, 14:50
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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You assume I want to exchange, however, this is medium term and will be reinvested in the same currency.

Never hold CHF apart from Beer money. ;-))
That doesn't matter - it means that if you had bought CHF and put them in a box next to your bed you would have gained more money...
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  #138  
Old 15.04.2011, 15:07
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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That doesn't matter - it means that if you had bought CHF and put them in a box next to your bed you would have gained more money...
I think we may be getting a little off topic here - Stuart seems to have come across a decent IFA, and is happy with what he got - I'm not sure we have any right to judge what specific investments he chose to make as we know almost nothing about his individual circumstances/risk tolerance etc.

Using 20:20 hindsight to say that investing in CHFs would have been better isn't exactly clever either... I can think of plenty of things that would have been even better investments if only I'd had a functioning crystal ball 12 months ago.
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Old 15.04.2011, 15:22
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I think we may be getting a little off topic here - Stuart seems to have come across a decent IFA, and is happy with what he got - I'm not sure we have any right to judge what specific investments he chose to make as we know almost nothing about his individual circumstances/risk tolerance etc.

Using 20:20 hindsight to say that investing in CHFs would have been better isn't exactly clever either... I can think of plenty of things that would have been even better investments if only I'd had a functioning crystal ball 12 months ago.
I am not judging anyones investment but my own. All I am saying is that I agree to marton as I made the same experience: I have right now several investments in my portfolio that made a great development. But the view in my account looks like: Price you bought at: x; Current price: x+15%; Overall performance -xxxx CHF...

It doesn't matter if your investment in currency x made 13% - if at the same time the currency went to down against the CHF more... and I find the argument that "I only have beer money in CHF" is not really valid - there are currency risks, especially when you live in a country where you need CHF to pay your beers. So I could not care less what interest they offer me in ZWD...
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  #140  
Old 15.04.2011, 15:34
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I am guessing StuartP meant that he paid them a fee for their time, much in the way that you can at any IFA in the UK.
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I paid the agent (IFA) no fees.
I wasn't saying you would be ripped off by paying the agent a fee, exactly the opposite.

A few years ago I used an IFA in London a few times, each time I had the option of having his service for free with him earning commission or to pay him a fee for his time.

Each time I paid about £150.00 for his time and the 10% commission he would have earned (each time amounting to £500 - £1000) was paid into my fund which meant it made 5 - 10% before we even started. It was he who offered me this option, I didn't have to ask for it. (And I paid directly to the company, not him).
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Last edited by grumpygrapefruit; 15.04.2011 at 15:36. Reason: a bit of clarity
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