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  #141  
Old 18.04.2011, 14:34
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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PS. Celebrations this weekend as one of the autocall notes reached the limit on the first anniversary. 13% in 12 months........none too shabby.
That's great. Will you see this when it matures?

Autocall notes seem quite complex: http://www.structuredproductreview.c...26-02-2010.pdf

Quote:
...if the autocall trigger has not occurred before the scheduled maturity date, capital is fully protected provided that the underlying has not fallen below a certain level (‘the protection level’) during the term of the investment. ...Conditional capital protection, as you would expect, is cheaper than full capital protection, and so structured products providers can pass on attractive coupons to investors. If the underlying does not fall below the protection level, investors will receive at least the full principal amount back at maturity if the product has not autocalled early.
What does this mean for protection of capital and exposure to risk?

Last edited by Reb77Br; 18.04.2011 at 14:47.
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  #142  
Old 18.04.2011, 14:49
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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That's great. Will you see this when it matures?

Autocall notes seem quite complex: http://www.structuredproductreview.c...26-02-2010.pdf

Can anyone understand this?
1. I think he has seen it. It's kicked out at 13% in one year. If it hadn't it would have rolled over each year until it paid out at the end or kicked out at 13% x the number of years. So yeah, I think he's got the capital and the 13% to go spend now.
2. Yeah. Most structured products are not fully capital protected. They're often based on an "underlying". This could be 4 different blue chip stocks. It could 8 different indices of developing countries. It could be the price of Gold, the price of Silver, the inverse of CHF/EUR plus the FTSE 300.

The is then a condition set eg: if any of the "underlyings" fall below 57% of their starting value (at the beginning of the structured product) then your initial capital is at risk. If they fall, but not below the 57% then you get back 3% per year but not 13% per year.


So, it's important to remember that structured products are not bank accounts. There is a good amount of risk there. You get nothing for nothing in this world, but similarly this doesn't mean that 13% return is either weird or unusual. Many funds have averaged more than this over the past 15 years including all the drops/bear markets. So why a structured product? Well, it helps you get exactly what you want. If you want to take the precise amount of risk that a 13% coupon brings, that product might be for you. If you like Gold, hate silver, are indifferent to India, think China will crash in the short term but recover after 5 years....there's either a structured product for you (to reflect your views) or you can get one structured for you if you have enough money, or club together with like minded friends and have a bank structure you a product like this. You need around 1 million USD for it to be worthwhile for an investment bank to structure a product.
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  #143  
Old 17.05.2011, 13:57
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Just thought I'd bump my favourite thread as the Expat Expo Basel is in town, and I can see financial services industry is well represented there.

There have been scurrilous remarks that they offer a 'one size fits all' solution to your financial planning (namely a fixed term savings plan) regardless of your circumstances, so if anyone can provide feedback after the Expo it would be appreciated by all.
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  #144  
Old 18.05.2011, 15:03
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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...I can see financial services industry is well represented there.

There have been scurrilous remarks that they offer a 'one size fits all' solution to your financial planning (namely a fixed term savings plan) regardless of your circumstances, so if anyone can provide feedback after the Expo it would be appreciated by all.
A couple of the companies represented at the event are members of FEIFA. (Any of these names sound familiar?) FEIFA seems to be some kind of club.
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  #145  
Old 23.05.2011, 19:22
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Not sure if this list was already posted, but here is a list published & regularly updated by the FSA of companies (usually based in Spain, Switzerland or the USA) that operate as 'Boiler Rooms'.

I'll rob their disclaimer;

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The list of unauthorised firms is by no means exhaustive as new names are regularly added. The absence of a firm’s name does not necessarily mean they can be safely dealt with. Consumers need to be aware of the dangers that are posed by such unauthorised entities.
There is also a handy online reporting form, to report any such companies who may have contacted you...
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  #146  
Old 23.05.2011, 19:36
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Not sure if this list was already posted, but here is a list published & regularly updated by the FSA of companies (usually based in Spain, Switzerland or the USA) that operate as 'Boiler Rooms'.

I'll rob their disclaimer;



There is also a handy online reporting form, to report any such companies who may have contacted you...
Long list....
The FSA says these are companies not approved to operate in the UK; so they could be legal or not legal to operate in other countries.
One might jump to a conclusion I suppose?
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  #147  
Old 23.05.2011, 20:15
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Long list....
The FSA says these are companies not approved to operate in the UK; so they could be legal or not legal to operate in other countries.
One might jump to a conclusion I suppose?
Well yes, but it would be a reasonably informed jump; what they say in full is

Quote:
This warning list includes unauthorised overseas firms that the FSA has received complaints about in respect of their activities and/or the FSA has reason to believe they are involved, or have been involved in, activities that contravene section 19 and/or 21 of FSMA.
FSMA is the Financial Services Markets Act, which was the legal Act that created the FSA as the UK financial regulator; Section 19 states that in order to carry on a regulated activity (e.g. selling) the firm must be authorised to do so; and section 21 makes it a criminal offence to sell (specifically in the UK) unless approved to do so.

So, the inference would be, this is a list of companies where the FSA has reason to suspect that the company is not authorised to sell in the UK, is doing so anyway, and in doing so is committing a criminal offence under FSMA.

Ultimately, it is then the investors own decision whether they would choose to deal with those same companies when they are selling into other jurisdictions.

FINMA has a similar list, albeit a lot shorter.
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  #148  
Old 23.05.2011, 21:08
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Thanks for starting this useful post.

I went to the Expat Exhibition in Basel yesterday, it was sponsored by a 'wealth management' company there were many similar organizations there. I told them I was a US Resident (no problems they said) and also asked how they were compensated (all via commission). Today I got an e-mail stating that I had won 2nd prize in the raffle and could they set up a meeting to deliver prize and also have an exploratory discussion (does this feel like time share).

Does anyone have any fee based people they would recommend??
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  #149  
Old 23.05.2011, 22:37
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Hello Sonofsolihull,
first of all, congratulations!
You may well have an entertaining hour listening to what they have to sell, sorry, I mean what they have to say.
As has been pointed out before, they would seem, in some peoples eyes, to offer virtually the same product to every person, namely a life insurance "tax wrapper" to keep your money offshore (the mighty Guernsey usually) and sign up for a 10, 15 or even 20 year policy, with the attraction that you can move your money between funds as often as you like.
The commission may or may not eat the tax advantage, only time will tell.

That said, if you could see your way reporting back once you pick up your prize, we would all be grateful to see if the stereotype persists. Cheers!

An Aussie friend of mine also entered the draw, I'll ask if she has won a prize also.
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  #150  
Old 24.05.2011, 01:57
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Today I got an e-mail stating that I had won 2nd prize in the raffle and could they set up a meeting to deliver prize and also have an exploratory discussion (does this feel like time share).
If the second prize is to listen to a sales drone's drivel for an hour... what was the first prize? A STD? A good spanking?
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  #151  
Old 17.06.2011, 12:58
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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A few months ago I got a series of cold calls from a financial advice company based in the south of Spain. When I asked them in which country they were regulated and if they were licensed to sell financial products in Switzerland they just told me that all of this could be explained by their "consultant". These initial calls were just to find out how much I had available to invest.

The whole thing just screamed of scam, I let them play their game for a while but after about 5 calls they gave up on me.

The one thing that really gets me about these companies is that they admit to "targeting ex-pats", it's almost as if they believe expats are easy pickings. Why not offer the same "advice" to the locals?
Talking of Spain:
Quote:
Fraudsters target British expats
In and around Spain, thousands are falling prey to advisers peddling financial scams and mis-selling investments
British citizens living abroad are being targeted by unscrupulous financial advisers for risky investment schemes and fraud...

British expatriates are ideal targets for chancers and conmen, warns David Marchant, publisher of the Miami-based Offshore Alert magazine. "A typical expat is financially successful," he says. "Also, being strangers in a foreign land, expats tend to work and socialise together, forming a group of people that is easy for conmen to recognise and infiltrate."...

Mr Marchant was the first to raise concerns about Imperial Consolidated, a financial group that sold investments promising returns of 15 per cent a year to UK expats across the world. It collapsed in 2002 after losing up to £200m of investors' money and became the subject of a Serious Fraud Office probe.
Also relevant to Switzerland, of course, as companies/individuals similar or identical to those operating in Spain operate here. Indeed, a Swiss-based company with offices in Spain invested $50 of its clients' money in Imperial Consolidated, before bouncing back under a different name.
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  #152  
Old 17.06.2011, 13:14
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

That firm in Spain called me back again this week, I asked them to email me information about their company, all I got was a badly written email filled with basic English grammar mistakes from someone with "BA (hons), CeMap, FAIQ (Cii)" after his name saying that he wanted some information about my financial situation so.....

Quote:
they will send you a bespoke recommendation via email outlining a few specific products/institutions you might wish to consider.
They also sent a link to their web site where it was interesting to read that....

Quote:
We recommend at all times that you always seek professional advice before entering into any agreements or investment products.
So basically they are admitting that they cannot give professional advice about the products they are selling and that I should get that from someone else. But they still want me to hand over to them my cash
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  #153  
Old 17.06.2011, 17:20
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I went to the Expat Exhibition in Basel yesterday, it was sponsored by a 'wealth management' company there were many similar organizations there. I told them I was a US Resident (no problems they said) and also asked how they were compensated (all via commission). Today I got an e-mail stating that I had won 2nd prize in the raffle and could they set up a meeting to deliver prize and also have an exploratory discussion (does this feel like time share).
These organizations could be very closely related. Here's someone who appears to work simultaneously for that company you mention and for another one.
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  #154  
Old 26.03.2012, 23:15
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Lest we forget the Financial Advisers are still in town, I've pulled this from a recruitment website for them:

Top Sales Person
Remuneration: to be discussed
Requirements
Can negotiate clearly and efficiently over the phone with ENERGY and EXCITEMENT!
Must have a sales attitude to succeed.
Fluent in English
Be able to Learn off of a script to excel in the role
Quick thinker

Advantageous
Focused and determined
Organised
Prioritisation
Multi-tasking ability

Personal Skills/Attributes
People Person
Easy to be around
Can talk the talk
Able to sit down with a stranger and leave being friends!


mmm, not many requirements listed for actually knowing anything about finance then
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  #155  
Old 27.03.2012, 11:34
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

I have been bothered by these people as well. The modus operendi seems to be that they get your name from linkedin, see that you work in Basel/ Zurich/ Geneva/ etc then ring the company switchboard to get to you.

The guys who contacted me claim to have been retained to help British expats at my company, something I know to be entirely fictitious, and kept on calling me until I blanked them

I laso got hassled from a company selling carbon trading credits which is one of the latest scams. Again dont touch it.

Having been persuaded into buying stock in an OTC from an old drinking buddy in Geneva, I can assure you as soon as you engage people you are waving good bye to your money.

Check the FSA list as linked, these companies are on there.

As a rule if you get a cold call, dont touch it. If you have any doubt call the FSA and ask them. They are usually fairly unhelpful but will give you useful information.

Final thought, Grab some beer and popcorn and watch the film Boiler Room. It is good and depressingly close to the reality of these scams. I have a copy, I am up for a screening on the next wet weekend in the Basel area if people are interested
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  #156  
Old 05.04.2012, 23:37
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

This maybe a bit uncommon - but I guess the fight against "the company who must not be named" and other similarily bad financial salesperson (I will not call them advisors as they are not even close to being one) unites us even over the boarders.

I am something of a "regular" on the finance forum of Toytown Germany for some years. About 3000 contributions to my name and I think I am safe to say that I have gathered the reputation to be a fair, unbiased financial advisor to Expats clients in Germany. Since you guys here are not even remotely in my "focus group" of clients (as I have neither a license nor any interest to offer our services to Swiss clients), I hope my words about the typical "offshore perps" can be taken with the proverbial grain of salt...

I have read numerous contris here, specially from this SWAN-something guy who first sold in CH and then vanished to a farm in Spain.
From a German perspective (and not knowing the CH laws - but I am sure somebody can come up with them), here are my comments on what the "company who must not be named" does in Germany:
1. Cold-Calling: first of all, as others have pointed out, it is stupid and bad style if you do it anywhere. There is no good exuce for it. If you as a good financial advisor do not get enough new clients from advertising (which costs more money than cold-calling, oh dear) and references from existing real clients, you are doing something seriously wrong and people should stay away from you just for that reason.
There is no good excuse for cold-calling B2C in finance. Period
And in Germany it is utterly and entirel illegal. If you call someone in Germany EVEN IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED A REFERENCE without his/her explicit permission, you are breaking the law. Again: Period - no room for discussion. But usually you guys do not even have a "reference"....

Don't know the CH laws, but since they are the same in Austria like in Germany, I would be surprised if they were much different in CH, too.
In Germany it is clearly illegal and they still do it - and they know it is illegal, btw.
If somebody breakes the laws just to get in contact with you, question is, what other laws is he/she willing to break to get your money?

2. Offshore pension plans: at least in Germany they are "selling" these pension plans illegally. Appart from the fact that some of these plans are for good reasons banned by the FAS in the UK for UK clients (General Vision, for instance), under German laws you need a specific license to offer these plans which this company does not have. And you have to disclose the costs for the plans in full EUR before anybody signs -which they also never do. And there are a number of other customer protection laws they break when signing up people for those plans. Thus, many people have lost serious money there and this is not a myth - I have the files and we are fighting to get their money back.

3. QROPS investments and autocallable notes
"The company that must not be named" claims to have catered to about 1/3 of the volumn of British pension capital going out of country through QROPS...without proof.
Some of the schemes are pretty questionable, legally speaking.
they all come with high frontloaded costs. If these costs are fully disclosed and someone sign up still, I have no qualms - but I have not seen ONE case where the costs where disclosed in full EUR as required under German laws. Hence they are not folloing legal requirements in Germany
"The company that must not be named" is selling left and right derivatives in Germany - "autocallable notes" from RBS and other providers. Appart from the fact that these are, -legally speaking - bets in the form of bonds and as such quite questionable as investment tools if you look at them closely with regards to the total risk involved, it requires in Germany a special license by the federal authorities to offer and advise on these derivative products. "The company that must not be name" has no such license. Nor is it allowed under any EU rules to offer these products in Germany the way they do. Wonder if they are allowed in CH after all, anyone checked yet?

I can't judge what they do in CH. But the German outfit is clearly boardering on organized crime. If you are ready to violate even the poor consumer protection standards as they are in Germany, people should stay miles upwind from you.

And once again: cold-calling is for perps and jerks...if you are a serious and good independent financial advisor, you do not need to fall so low...

Cheerio
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  #157  
Old 16.04.2012, 13:24
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

14% in six months during a recession. An "exclusive" product.

Better than Bernie Madoff:
Quote:
Otherwise, Madoff and his ilk could never lure victims with the promise of 12 percent returns, year in, year out. They could never hide accounts, empty of all value.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norb-v..._b_196994.html
Nothing like Allen Stanford:
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...bogus certificates of deposit had promised artificially high returns ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17274724
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  #158  
Old 16.04.2012, 17:49
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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14% in six months during a recession. An "exclusive" product.

Better than Bernie Madoff:

Nothing like Allen Stanford:
They only tell you about the ones that make money not the ones they lose on
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  #159  
Old 16.04.2012, 17:58
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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They only tell you about the ones that make money not the ones they lose on
Like every investor, who bought a house in the UK 20 Years ago, Gold 10 Years later or the FTSE in December 1987.

If they avtually had been really good they would have bought the FTSE in December 1987, sold in January 2000 & bought Gold & sold it last year!
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Old 16.04.2012, 18:28
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

The only Google results for that product and its 14% return are Venere sites. Check out post 20 here.
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