Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02.04.2011, 11:57
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thun
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
beatholzer has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration /passport / risk to be discovered

My girl friend is a Swiss-US-dual citizen. she has a US passport issued by a swiss embassy, expiring in late 2011.
She never lived in the US apart from birth+some months.
She has no Social Security Number.
She has never filed any tax return forms.

What is the risk that the IRS or other US services find out that she is us citizien and has failed to file tax return?
Are there any records of passport applications or any other forms of records of US (dual) citizens in Switzerland?
What is the risk just to "forget about US citizenship" but to be discovered sometimes?

Thank you so much for an answer.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02.04.2011, 13:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration /passport / risk to be discovered

Quote:
View Post
she has a US passport issued by a swiss embassy
US passport issued by the US embassy in Switzerland - maybe.
Swiss passport issued by a Swiss embassy somewhere - maybe
US passport issued by a Swiss embassy - I'd be really surprised.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02.04.2011, 13:54
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rolle
Posts: 125
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Kristofolo has earned some respectKristofolo has earned some respect
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Where was your girlfriend born?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02.04.2011, 14:03
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rolle
Posts: 125
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Kristofolo has earned some respectKristofolo has earned some respect
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Sorry you mentioned it : she was born in the US. So it is going to be increasingly difficult for her to have a bank account in Switzerland. The risk is that with the new legislations being put in place ( fatca, uswht, etc...) her details might be turned over to the IRS by her bank. Apart from that i dont see how the IRS would know about her.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03.04.2011, 17:18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thun
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
beatholzer has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Thank you for your answers. Of course, the US Passport was issued by the US-embassy in Switzerland.
The core of the question is whether the passport data somehere in the archives of the US embassy (or the US state departement) will be used to search for US- or (in this case dual citizens in Switzerland.
The bank-account-problem will occur only when she tells the bank that she is US citizen, but she did not so far.
From US websites I could find out that you can obtain a copy of your old passport forms, therefore i fear that the US may some time try to find out where their citizens live and if the pay taxes. What do you know about that.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03.04.2011, 18:47
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for your answers. Of course, the US Passport was issued by the US-embassy in Switzerland.
The core of the question is whether the passport data somehere in the archives of the US embassy (or the US state departement) will be used to search for US- or (in this case dual citizens in Switzerland.
The bank-account-problem will occur only when she tells the bank that she is US citizen, but she did not so far.
From US websites I could find out that you can obtain a copy of your old passport forms, therefore i fear that the US may some time try to find out where their citizens live and if the pay taxes. What do you know about that.
Sounds like you two should investigate relinquishing her US citizenship. That way, after a short period, you don't ever have to fear paying US taxes again or having the IRS come after you!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank phdoofus for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 03.04.2011, 18:54
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 117
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 62 Times in 38 Posts
Saulius has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Can't one just change his name on the US passport, so the persons non-US identity cannot be easily linked?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03.04.2011, 18:54
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,499
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,639 Times in 18,682 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
Sounds like you two should investigate relinquishing her US citizenship. That way, after a short period, you don't ever have to fear paying US taxes again or having the IRS come after you!
Indeed, I should convince my kids of the same (unless they want to move there). In any case, they also have Canadian (as well as Swiss), and there isn't much point in having both US and Canadian.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03.04.2011, 18:56
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,499
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,639 Times in 18,682 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
Can't one just change his name on the US passport, so the persons non-US identity cannot be easily linked?
That would be very stupid, and very illegal.

Might get you a free trip to Guantanamo, though.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:00
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 117
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 62 Times in 38 Posts
Saulius has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
That would be very stupid, and very illegal.

Might get you a free trip to Guantanamo, though.

Tom

But one is allowed to change his name. e.g. A friend of mine from Russia
was forced to choose a French sounding name when he got his French citizenship, so his passports have different names.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:04
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
Indeed, I should convince my kids of the same (unless they want to move there). In any case, they also have Canadian (as well as Swiss), and there isn't much point in having both US and Canadian.

Tom
I'm guessing few people do this despite what they say since they look on a US passport as a global 'get out of jail free' card in case everything goes to hell where they happen to be living.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank phdoofus for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:07
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,499
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,639 Times in 18,682 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
I'm guessing few people do this despite what they say since they look on a US passport as a global 'get out of jail free' card in case everything goes to hell where they happen to be living.
I thought that that's what the Swiss passport was for?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:10
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 117
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 62 Times in 38 Posts
Saulius has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
I thought that that's what the Swiss passport was for?

Tom
But what does it help, if the Western countries have extradition
treaties with each other?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:17
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
I thought that that's what the Swiss passport was for?

Tom
I'm more interested in an honest answer to why people keep their US passports if being liable for taxes they are unlikely to have to pay is so onerous.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:24
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,499
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,639 Times in 18,682 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
I'm more interested in an honest answer to why people keep their US passports if being liable for taxes they are unlikely to have to pay is so onerous.
I kept mine until my youngest was 16, then I got rid of it. Realistically, there was no need to keep it that long (or at all).

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:27
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rolle
Posts: 125
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Kristofolo has earned some respectKristofolo has earned some respect
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
I'm more interested in an honest answer to why people keep their US passports if being liable for taxes they are unlikely to have to pay is so onerous.
Because it can be very costly. To dump you US passport you have to be up-to-date with you IRS obligations. If you are not, and that is usually the case of many dual nationals who did not know what the IRS requirements were, you will be asked to file the previous 6 years and of course pay taxes and penalties accordingly.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:36
rrs rrs is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 986
Groaned at 91 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 348 Times in 226 Posts
rrs is considered unworthyrrs is considered unworthyrrs is considered unworthyrrs is considered unworthy
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Seems to me, most people on here who were born in the US , know that they have to file taxes overseas, but they are hoping for to find some loophole.
Does citizenship just come down to who gives the best tax deal nowadays?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:42
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
Because it can be very costly. To dump you US passport you have to be up-to-date with you IRS obligations. If you are not, and that is usually the case of many dual nationals who did not know what the IRS requirements were, you will be asked to file the previous 6 years and of course pay taxes and penalties accordingly.
That's kind of a weak answer, don't you think? WHich is more costly, paying back taxes for six years (which you haven't actually stated that you know that you owe) or paying taxes for the rest of your life?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank phdoofus for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:47
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rolle
Posts: 125
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Kristofolo has earned some respectKristofolo has earned some respect
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
Seems to me, most people on here who were born in the US , know that they have to file taxes overseas, but they are hoping for to find some loophole.
Does citizenship just come down to who gives the best tax deal nowadays?
Many dual nationals were born in the US and left the country as toddlers. They don't even speak english and know even less what IRS means.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03.04.2011, 19:54
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rolle
Posts: 125
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Kristofolo has earned some respectKristofolo has earned some respect
Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Quote:
View Post
That's kind of a weak answer, don't you think? WHich is more costly, paying back taxes for six years (which you haven't actually stated that you know that you owe) or paying taxes for the rest of your life?
If you don't owe anything, I agree, it does not make sense to keep it.

If you do owe, you can ask yourself the question specially if you don't intend to go there again. As of today, provided they know about you and they locate you, the IRS cannot collect.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US IRS bank account levy altehase Finance/banking/taxation 11 04.12.2009 17:55
Frustration - Visa Credit Card - language yupnya Language corner 6 29.10.2009 14:00
Grandpa and IRS Dervaish Jokes/funnies 0 04.09.2009 10:24
IRS Form? bwand8gv Finance/banking/taxation 3 06.03.2009 15:30
Trouser frustration........ cricketer Complaints corner 33 21.06.2007 20:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0