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  #121  
Old 19.10.2011, 13:16
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

yes that is what I am asking and I guess it sounds strange because who knows what the exchange rate will be when we take the money out, it could benefit us to pay at these exchange rates, or hurt us, we just don't know.

It just isn't that logical to me to pay taxes on money in USD when you can't access the funds to convert them USD, so in essence you just have to keep your fingers crossed for some stability in the currency markets... unless there is some loophole I am missing!
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  #122  
Old 19.10.2011, 15:26
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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There are no restrictions on internet forums to asking rhetorical questions.

I've yet to read a good answer as to why US citizens and green card holders! should have to pay taxes when the don't live in the country.

Don't bother answering as there is no good answer and saying "cuz it's the law" is not really a good answer.

- to avoid the really rich moving their official residence to say the Bahamas to avoid personal taxes

Pretty much the only reason. The islands in the Carribean would be even more mobbed with the filthy rich if they did not have this policy. Imagine if the top 1% were all official residents of Cayman, and were not paying US taxes. The pitchforks would be out, as we like to say, even more than they are already.

Does that make it right, no.

Now, could the rules be changed so it only impacts the really rich, sure. But, that is not how our democracy works. Who would bring forth such a bill, to protect those people who are so unpatriotic to have left the US? (or so how the political rhetoric would go). Maybe one could spin the argument in the American press, that these are hard working Americans, furthering the American cause by being forced to live in hellholes around the world (we can attacch a link to the Complaints Forum as proof)
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  #123  
Old 19.10.2011, 15:37
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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- Maybe one could spin the argument in the American press, that these are hard working Americans, furthering the American cause by being forced to live in hellholes around the world (we can attacch a link to the Complaints Forum as proof)

I suggest the "Laundry in Switzerland sucks thread," not that it would do much good, of course.
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  #124  
Old 19.10.2011, 15:57
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Assuming all my income i earned here is excluded but I earned income in the USA through stocks, dividends, capital gains...etc.

Am I allowed to earn up to my standard deduction + exemption without paying any US taxes?

If married to a foreign national, can i file independently and use her as a dependent? That would bump up my excluded US income even more, right?

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  #125  
Old 19.10.2011, 16:50
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

Thanks for the post, that is very helpful. BTW, what does IMHO mean?
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  #126  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:33
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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- to avoid the really rich moving their official residence to say the Bahamas to avoid personal taxes

Pretty much the only reason. The islands in the Carribean would be even more mobbed with the filthy rich if they did not have this policy. Imagine if the top 1% were all official residents of Cayman, and were not paying US taxes. The pitchforks would be out, as we like to say, even more than they are already.

Does that make it right, no.
If they want to do that's fine. What do I care? But then they need to be actually living there for their 187 (or whatever) days. Isn't the their choice? Freedom, rah, rah!!! Anyway, the super rich don't even need to move out of the country to "work" the system. We all know that & it doesn't hurt the super rich. It hurts the regular families, as usual.

How many countries in the world tax non-resident citizens? How many tax non-resident permanent residents? I'd be interested to know that. I heard it was 2! I think that's a clue.


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Now, could the rules be changed so it only impacts the really rich, sure. But, that is not how our democracy works. Who would bring forth such a bill, to protect those people who are so unpatriotic to have left the US? (or so how the political rhetoric would go). Maybe one could spin the argument in the American press, that these are hard working Americans, furthering the American cause by being forced to live in hellholes around the world (we can attacch a link to the Complaints Forum as proof)
Taxation without representation is what it is.
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  #127  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:47
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

b
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If they want to do that's fine. What do I care? But then they need to be actually living there for their 187 (or whatever) days. Isn't the their choice? Freedom, rah, rah!!! Anyway, the super rich don't even need to move out of the country to "work" the system. We all know that & it doesn't hurt the super rich. It hurts the regular families, as usual.

How many countries in the world tax non-resident citizens? How many tax non-resident permanent residents? I'd be interested to know that. I heard it was 2! I think that's a clue.

Taxation without representation is what it is.
I am simply telling you why it was first put into place. I think it was Franklin Roosevelt (not sure), as he was trying to ensure the rich did not escape the taxes. It will not be overturned because no there is no political will and no representation for this populace as you say. Once something is put in place, it is hard to change it.

Sure it is unfair. There are a lot of things that are unfair. If you are born an American citizen, you don't have freedom from your government.

Sure it hurts regular families (at least those who are earning above the exclusion level).
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  #128  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:50
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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Assuming all my income i earned here is excluded but I earned income in the USA through stocks, dividends, capital gains...etc.

Am I allowed to earn up to my standard deduction + exemption without paying any US taxes?

If married to a foreign national, can i file independently and use her as a dependent? That would bump up my excluded US income even more, right?
why would income earned here be excluded?

And no, if your wife files independently, she is not a dependent. Unless you're suggesting fraud.
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  #129  
Old 20.10.2011, 10:44
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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why would income earned here be excluded?

And no, if your wife files independently, she is not a dependent. Unless you're suggesting fraud.

Is it not the case that income you earn overseas (up to 90 something thousand dollars) can be excluded from your US tax returns as long as you live in the country youre earning the said income???

My wife will not be filing, she's not a us citizen/green carder. I just wanted to know if I have to file my tax return as a married person even though she is not subject to any taxes in the USA?

I don't know where I was suggesting fraud in my previous post.
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  #130  
Old 20.10.2011, 11:20
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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Is it not the case that income you earn overseas (up to 90 something thousand dollars) can be excluded from your US tax returns as long as you live in the country youre earning the said income???
Yes, you are correct, foreign earned income up to that level can be excluded if you meet the conditions.

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My wife will not be filing, she's not a us citizen/green carder. I just wanted to know if I have to file my tax return as a married person even though she is not subject to any taxes in the USA?
As I understand, you have two options: treat her as spouse and file as married, take the deduction as married, but then have to include all her income as well, or file as single (or head of household if qualifiying child) and don't consider her as spouse, nor her income.
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  #131  
Old 20.10.2011, 11:41
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

You file as married, filing separately, and take exemptions for you and her (and any kids), writing in "NRA" where it asks for her SS number.

Tom
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  #132  
Old 20.10.2011, 11:42
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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Yes, you are correct, foreign earned income up to that level can be excluded if you meet the conditions.


As I understand, you have two options: treat her as spouse and file as married, take the deduction as married, but then have to include all her income as well, or file as single (or head of household if qualifiying child) and don't consider her as spouse, nor her income.
Or you can file as "Married Filing Separate" and exclude her income.

It is up to her/him to file his own return. Since he/she probably does
not have a tax id, good luck tracking them.
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  #133  
Old 20.10.2011, 12:20
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

So to the original question.....say my only income in the US is that through capital gains, interest, dividends; and all my swiss based income is excluded as well (under the limit); can i use my exemption and deductible to exclude the $9k or so in us based income
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  #134  
Old 20.10.2011, 12:23
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Re: Swiss-American nonfilers: IRS frustration

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So to the original question.....say my only income in the US is that through capital gains, interest, dividends; and all my swiss based income is excluded as well (under the limit); can i use my exemption and deductible to exclude the $9k or so in us based income
In a word yes. Add up your earned and unearned income, irregardless of source, take your standard deduction(s) or other deductions, and the earned income exclusion, do the maths and see how it all works out.
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