Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13.05.2010, 21:54
MrChilli's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
MrChilli has no particular reputation at present
Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

Hi Everyone,

Having paid a tax accountant last year, this year I thought I'd do my own Zürich tax return. I've got pretty much everything filled out OK, copying my return from last year and using Google translate a with text copied out of the Wegleitung.pdf file that comes with the software from the Zurich tax website.

I have a query though, on the Versicherungsprämien page, the first question asks "1. Private Krankenversicherungsprämien- 601", which I believe means "Private health insurance premium". Last year my tax man put down "2400 geschätzt" (i.e. estimate), and I assume that means he estimated 2400 per month. That's much more than my actual premium, but nothing like what I pay per year.

In the section under that, it asks for my bank account interest and adds them together. It seems odd to me to add together a monthly premium paid to a yearly interest payment.

So what should I put down in box 601, the monthly insurance premium or the yearly total?

One another question, I believe I can offset income something like 6500 CHF by paying into a pension (using box 16.1?) (I already have an employer pension also). I've also read that I can pay into my pension for all the years since I was 25 (up to a max of 20% of my salary, as I've only been here 2 years). What's the difference between these extra payments and the 6500 CHF? I assume they are not the same thing? If I payed a chunk of the money to make up for my unpaid years, where would this go on the tax return?

Last question...I'm currently filling out my return for 2009, can I backdate any payments or is all of this really only relevent for my 2010 return onwards?

All thoughts appreciated!

Thanks,
Phil
Hüttikon 8115
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14.05.2010, 09:24
jaudi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 562
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 492 Times in 229 Posts
jaudi has a reputation beyond reputejaudi has a reputation beyond reputejaudi has a reputation beyond reputejaudi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

entry 601 should be your annual health insurance premium.
the approx. 6500 is 3rd pillar savings account which you can take with any bank - this is independent of your BVG pension
and yes, you can probably make additional payments into your BVG pension, but you need to get confirmation from your pension provider (some do not accept additional payment, or have restrictions) - your pension provider should be able to tell you how big a 'hole' you have in your pension, depending on your current payments - other limits are as you mention 20% of salary as you are here <5 years after 2006.
The 6500 approx. should be stated in section 14.1 (3. Säule a), any additional BVG payments should be in section 16.1. AFAIK any payment relevant to 2009 must be made by Dec31 2009, you cannot backdate now.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14.05.2010, 10:08
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,466
Groaned at 358 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 12,595 Times in 4,294 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

1) The insurance premiums, like everything else on the tax form are per year not month. I think your 'expert' underestimated this. Surely it's a fairly easy to find as you pay it each month?

2) It would be more helpful if you quoted the section numbers of the Zurich tax form. If you mean 604, I leave that blank as interest is shown on a separate sheet section 150.

3) Section 250? CHF6500 is if you are employed, the 20% is if you are self employed - as I understand your question.

4) I don't understand what backdate payments means. What you earned and spent in 2009 goes on the 2009 form and likewise for all other years...
__________________
**Triple vaxxed with Moderna plus 21/22 season flu jab.**
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15.05.2010, 17:22
MrChilli's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
MrChilli has no particular reputation at present
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

Hi All,

Many thanks for your answers, reading on and between the lines, I think it answers all my questions.

For the annual health insurance premiums, I got it wrong, his 2400CHF was actually about right .

When I say 'backdate to 2009', yes, I did wonder if I could pay into my pension now to offset against 2009 pay, but I guess not. Payments now will go on the 2010 tax return.

Here's another question; Why would I want to invest in a pillar 3 private pension (and offset the 6500ish from income) when I could top up the missing years in my employers pension instead? Is there an advantage here somewhere, that I'm missing.

And last one; I changed gemeinde mid 2009, my 2008 tax return went to Zürich but the 2009 one will go to the local gemeinde. For 2008, I didn't receive a tax statement or anything, as I would in the UK, to declare my tax balance with the authorities. Should I have received anything? If so, could it have got lost as I moved from one gemeinde to another? I'd be nice to know my position.

Thanks,
Phil
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15.05.2010, 20:27
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

Quote:
View Post
Hi All,

Many thanks for your answers, reading on and between the lines, I think it answers all my questions.

For the annual health insurance premiums, I got it wrong, his 2400CHF was actually about right .

When I say 'backdate to 2009', yes, I did wonder if I could pay into my pension now to offset against 2009 pay, but I guess not. Payments now will go on the 2010 tax return.

Here's another question; Why would I want to invest in a pillar 3 private pension (and offset the 6500ish from income) when I could top up the missing years in my employers pension instead? Is there an advantage here somewhere, that I'm missing.

And last one; I changed gemeinde mid 2009, my 2008 tax return went to Zürich but the 2009 one will go to the local gemeinde. For 2008, I didn't receive a tax statement or anything, as I would in the UK, to declare my tax balance with the authorities. Should I have received anything? If so, could it have got lost as I moved from one gemeinde to another? I'd be nice to know my position.

Thanks,
Phil
You can always deduct the 3a contribution. You can also deduct any authorized top-ups to your pension plan. In short, it is not either/or. You may qualify for both.

If you move within canton ZH, then you are taxed at the municipality where you were resident on 1st January.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17.05.2010, 21:19
MrChilli's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
MrChilli has no particular reputation at present
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

Thanks for your reply, I visited my company's pension advisor today and she confirmed everything that's been said here.

She just laid down a shocker though; as a married couple (which I'm not just yet), you are treated as a single entity with a single bigger income (i.e. both your incomes together) and taxed to suit. Bottom line, you pay more tax if married.

I can hardly believe that to be true. If it is, are there any benefits to being married, apart from being on your spouse's pension?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17.05.2010, 21:33
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your reply, I visited my company's pension advisor today and she confirmed everything that's been said here.

She just laid down a shocker though; as a married couple (which I'm not just yet), you are treated as a single entity with a single bigger income (i.e. both your incomes together) and taxed to suit. Bottom line, you pay more tax if married.

I can hardly believe that to be true. If it is, are there any benefits to being married, apart from being on your spouse's pension?
Indeed, incomes of a married couple are clubbed to determine the combined taxable income. However, there are special deductions when both spouses are working. And married persons are taxed at a lower rate. So it is difficult to unconditionally state that married couples pay more taxes. That is often so, but not always so.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18.05.2010, 23:05
MrChilli's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 72
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
MrChilli has no particular reputation at present
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

Maybe it's not such a disaster after all then. Guess I'll have to suck it and see!

Thanks everyone for your help!

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27.03.2011, 00:19
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 8053 Zurich
Posts: 117
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 54 Times in 33 Posts
ip2012 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

Thanks for the clarification about the health insurance part. Does one have to prove what premium was paid for health insurance, or is, as the op said "geschaetzt" (estimated) good enough?

If one has to prove the premium amount, what document(s) does one submit?
Thanks for your replies!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27.03.2011, 10:12
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich now London
Posts: 246
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 104 Times in 58 Posts
pabcbc is considered knowledgeablepabcbc is considered knowledgeablepabcbc is considered knowledgeable
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

For the insurance amount, I first multiplied my montly premium by 12.

Then I found out that my insurance (Avanex) has an online query category called exactly that (Insurance expenses for tax), so I asked for it and got a neat doc in the mail that not only stated the premium but also the excess and other items that might go into that amount, making it larger. ALso providing backup for any tax follow up.

So I advise checking with your insurance to see if they provide a purpose-built statement. It will be a bit short in time for 31.3 though.

THe insurance document does not have to be attached to the return.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank pabcbc for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 27.03.2011, 21:32
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 711
Groaned at 12 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 428 Times in 246 Posts
Brooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputation
We just finished our taxes for 2010 and I included the entire health insurance amount, premium payments plus the other amounts we had to pay (shared cost). Is that correct? Our insurance company sent us a summary including all of that.

One other question, I found out that we did this wrong for 2009. How do I submit an amendment for 2009?

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27.03.2011, 21:53
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

In ZH the max deduction is 2400 & for Bundessteur its 1700 so unless you did not put any figure in it's probably not worth doing anything!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27.03.2011, 22:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 711
Groaned at 12 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 428 Times in 246 Posts
Brooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputation
I think for a family of four it's much more. We are in Aargau and this year we were able to deduct >6000. Last year, basically the amount ended up being added to our income instead of deducted. I recalculated and our tax would have been several thousand francs lower. So it's worth pursuing.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 28.03.2011, 21:36
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 711
Groaned at 12 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 428 Times in 246 Posts
Brooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputation
Sorry, you were right. I didn't realize the premium was not deductible, only the shared cost. It didn't make any real difference.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 28.03.2011, 21:49
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

The 2400 / 1700 is for a single person.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28.03.2011, 23:20
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 711
Groaned at 12 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 428 Times in 246 Posts
Brooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputation
Ok. This may also be a difference between AG and ZH. Someone told me that AG doesn't allow the premiums to be deducted (also the Gemeinde said this) but may ZH does?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 29.03.2011, 00:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steuererklärung health insurance & pension query

1700 is the limit for a single person for Bundessteur regardless of canton.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 29.03.2011, 07:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 711
Groaned at 12 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 428 Times in 246 Posts
Brooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputationBrooks85 has an excellent reputation
Thanks. We included our information from our insurance company so the Gemeinde corrected it for us.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
health insurance, pension, steuererklarung, tax return




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Health Insurance & Test Flu Nil Complaints corner 25 20.09.2009 23:06
Cheap & Reliable Health Insurance for Non-Eu Intern hannah2009 Insurance 3 09.07.2009 16:11
Twin pregnancy & health insurance dillema. simonwelsh66 Insurance 10 22.09.2008 00:32
Smoking & Health Insurance Nickers Complaints corner 21 07.08.2007 23:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0