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Old 12.06.2007, 21:35
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Tax bill - SHOCK!!

I was just wondering if there is anybody knowledgeable about Swiss tax that could help us with a tax query.

Today my Girlfriend (English and has a C permit) received a tax bill for "Staatssteuer", "Einwohnergemeindsteuer", "Personalsteuer" & "Feuerwehersatzabgabe" to be paid by 31.12.07.

The thing that's worrying us is that last year she paid around just over 10% of her income on tax, and this year the bill is for around 24% of her income. Last year she was still married to a Swiss guy, they divorced in Jan 07. The bill that she has received today seems to be extortionately high in comparison to what she was expecting.

Can anyone shed some light please?
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Old 12.06.2007, 21:39
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

Has she completed a tax form? If not she should. A phone call/ visit to the local tax office will clarify. They are generally very oblidging...
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Old 12.06.2007, 21:42
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

10% is very low. She's working and filing a tax return?

And this is the estimate for 2007 tax? As a C permit holder, she can quite happily pay nothing and file the tax return for 2007 next year and pay when the firm bill comes for 2007.

This is what I do. I've just paid off 2005
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Old 12.06.2007, 21:47
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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Has she completed a tax form? If not she should. A phone call/ visit to the local tax office will clarify. They are generally very oblidging...
I do agree, the Tax office staff are usually veerry polite and obliging. (Well they have to be - beacause they know they WILL eventually get your 10% or more- or it is the "office de poursuite" (debt collector) for you, if you do not pay up!)
Alas, the more you earn, the more you pay!!!
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Old 12.06.2007, 21:50
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

Wow, thanks for the quick replies!

She is working, and filled in a tax form for 2006 and her accountant gave her a provisional bill for around 10,000chf and now for 2007 they are asking for over 18,000chf. She is still on the same salary as 2006.

How does that work with regard to waiting 'til they send the "firm bill"? Can she just ignore the bill for 18,000 and hope that when the firm bill arrives it is for less?
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Old 12.06.2007, 21:53
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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The thing that's worrying us is that last year she paid around just over 10% of her income on tax, and this year the bill is for around 24% of her income. Last year she was still married to a Swiss guy, they divorced in Jan 07. The bill that she has received today seems to be extortionately high in comparison to what she was expecting.

Can anyone shed some light please?

Up to a very high income, 20% tax is about normal. She'll probably have to pay more now because she didn't pay enough last year. For what period was the current bill? They're so far behind in my community that I'm paying for 2005 right now. Since my income has gone up considerably every year since 2004 I haven't had a single correct tax bill ever since I got my university degree. I have no idea how much I owe the state or how much the state owes me. I just kept on calculating the approximate tax burden and paid that every year.

The tax system in this country (unless you're lucky enough to have deduction at source) is a TOTAL MESS. Most people never get a correct tax assessment and nobody ever knows how much exactly they have to pay. In some years you get screwed and have to pay thousands of Francs for the last year where they failed to assess you correctly, some years you get some money back. It's a shame for a country with such a strong financial sector.

The whole state, community and direct federal tax crap doesn't make things easier either. The communities are oftentimes completely incapable of handling all the complex cases.

dawiz
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Old 12.06.2007, 21:54
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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How does that work with regard to waiting 'til they send the "firm bill"? Can she just ignore the bill for 18,000 and hope that when the firm bill arrives it is for less?
you can do that but you'll pay interest for what you pay less than what you were assessed for.
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Old 12.06.2007, 21:58
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

Was that chap in any ways dependent of her (financially, a student say) as you can get some pretty good reductions that way?

I never filled a form in my life when in Switzerland, I paid an accountant who did it for me, deducted everything he could think of and I never had the slightest problem.
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Old 12.06.2007, 22:11
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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Up to a very high income, 20% tax is about normal. She'll probably have to pay more now because she didn't pay enough last year. For what period was the current bill?

The current bill is for 01.01.07 - 31.12.07. Last year she paid "Quellensteuer" on a Permit B from Jan 06 'til July 06 at approx 13% of her wage.

She then paid a tax bill for Aug 06 'til Dec 06 as a Permit C holder also at around 13%.

The current bill for year 2007 is for approx 24%. We were both under the impression that if you are taxed-at-source as a Permit B holder you would pay more in "Quellensteuer" than if fill in a tax form and pay a yearly tax bill as a Permit C holder.

The ex hubby was not dependent and she did pay an accountant to fill in the form from last year.

We are just struggling to understand where the bill for 8,000chf more has come from, but if as dawiz says they don't have a clue who owes what then how are us foreign folks supposed to have a clue how the system works???
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Old 12.06.2007, 22:14
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

Lucky you do not live in Kanton Aargau - here they pay tax in advance for the current year. I had to catch up nearly 3 years tax when I moved from Kanton Zurich. This December I will be ahead for the first time in my life - but it was hard work.
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Old 12.06.2007, 22:16
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

The Credit Suisse tax calculator https://calculators.credit-suisse.com/p/d/calc tells us that she should only be paying 13,340chf.
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Old 12.06.2007, 22:23
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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The Credit Suisse tax calculator https://calculators.credit-suisse.com/p/d/calc tells us that she should only be paying 13,340chf.
ok - but as she paid 10'000 last year for the same income, she'll have to pay the difference of about 3500 this year. That adds up to about 17'000 Fr. and is pretty close to what she got billed for.

dawiz
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Old 12.06.2007, 22:24
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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Lucky you do not live in Kanton Aargau - here they pay tax in advance for the current year. I had to catch up nearly 3 years tax when I moved from Kanton Zurich. This December I will be ahead for the first time in my life - but it was hard work.
yeah, here too (BL). But as they're way behind with the assessment forms, you never catch up :-)
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Old 12.06.2007, 22:35
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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ok - but as she paid 10'000 last year for the same income, she'll have to pay the difference of about 3500 this year. That adds up to about 17'000 Fr. and is pretty close to what she got billed for.

dawiz

Ok, that makes sense.

The biggest issue she has is that her tax bill has almost doubled from when she paid "Quellensteuer". Is it not the case that the tax is cheaper if you have a C Permit and pay one tax bill a year?
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Old 12.06.2007, 23:43
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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Ok, that makes sense.

The biggest issue she has is that her tax bill has almost doubled from when she paid "Quellensteuer". Is it not the case that the tax is cheaper if you have a C Permit and pay one tax bill a year?
Correct - filing a tax return as long as it done by someone who is competant and knows what they are doing should nearly always result in a lower tax bill than would have been paid under Quellensteuer, for the same incoming amount.


However, her circumstances have changed so maybe that has something to do with it. My advice is to talk to an accountant ASAP.
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Old 14.06.2007, 00:09
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

A big thank you to all of who replied yesterday, but it turned out today that the tax office had made a mistake and had billed her for a salary that is double what she earns.

She showed the bill to the accountant who prepared her tax declaration and he freaked and got on the phone to the tax people.

I wonder how many "mistakes" the tax offices make, that actually get paid by unsuspecting folks?
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Old 06.07.2007, 13:53
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Corporate Tax!

hi there i am working for an oil company in geneva temporarily for the summer. i need to find out this information of ANYONE can help.. please!!

What this needs to cover is the filing dates for the following tax returns:

Swiss tax filings
Corporate tax return (both Federal and Canton Genève)

and


TVA / VAT return (quarterly)

please help someone!
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Old 06.07.2007, 14:20
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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A big thank you to all of who replied yesterday, but it turned out today that the tax office had made a mistake and had billed her for a salary that is double what she earns.

She showed the bill to the accountant who prepared her tax declaration and he freaked and got on the phone to the tax people.

I wonder how many "mistakes" the tax offices make, that actually get paid by unsuspecting folks?
The bill for the current year is a provisional bill. They actually get round to doing the correct calculations maybe 18 months later. You then get an unexpected fat rebate
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Old 06.07.2007, 14:46
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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The Credit Suisse tax calculator https://calculators.credit-suisse.com/p/d/calc tells us that she should only be paying 13,340chf.

should I be worried? I just calculated mine and it's 6000 CHF higher than I paid last year (I pay withholding tax every month). I was on an L Permit last year and now on a B permit. Does that make a difference with tax?
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Old 06.07.2007, 16:03
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Re: Tax bill - SHOCK!!

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should I be worried? I just calculated mine and it's 6000 CHF higher than I paid last year (I pay withholding tax every month). I was on an L Permit last year and now on a B permit. Does that make a difference with tax?
There seems to be always a difference between the online calculator and the withholding tax schedule - in that the online tax is higher. Probably the difference comes up to the different possible deductions?
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