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Old 17.02.2011, 16:20
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

I don't really care about organic for taste reasons or health benefits. But I do like the idea that farms use less pesticides etc and that animal welfare standards are bit higher.
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  #22  
Old 17.02.2011, 16:36
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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I try to eat additive free but am not convinced by BIO labeled food. It looks like good marketing to me by the shops.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with marketing by the shops. The food either comes from a BIO certified farm or not. However, the problem with BIO is that some retailers promote that it is healthy eating, which isn't actually correct on its own.

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I don't really care about organic for taste reasons or health benefits. But I do like the idea that farms use less pesticides etc and that animal welfare standards are bit higher.
Exactly. We have a small farm (we run it to BIO standards but haven't got the certificate yet) on Flumserberg and sell a lot of BIO quality cheese at our market in Zurich. What I, and most people I know who sign up for the BIO "cause" believe, is that buying BIO food encourages farmers to work the land, and care for their animals, in a more ethical manner and with much more care and attention to detail.

My free range Appenzellar Barthuns live a fantastic life, but produce probably 40% less eggs (and smaller ones to boot) than the factory chickens that live a short nightmare of a life. But the taste and colour is amazing. When a chick is ready for eating, it is also much smaller than a supermarket one, and the flesh is golden yellow, almost going towards the brown of a turkey.

Running a BIO farm, particularly in Switzerland, costs a lot more and is much harder work. There may be a small minority of farmers who go organic because their products can reach higher prices, but trust me, my BIO farmer neighbours care for their land and animals a lot more than my non BIO neighbours.

A BIO meal made from fat, cream, red meat, sugar and high in salt is just as unhealthy as one made from non BIO ingredients, but you know there are no pesticides and anti-biotics that may cause you health problems at some point in the future.
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  #23  
Old 17.02.2011, 16:47
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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Some would say that the only reason organic food is more expensive (in England anyway) is because the people who care enough to eat organic ususally have more money...I'm not saying that I wholeheartily agree but this is an opinion I've heard several times before.
Organic (and free-ranging livestock) need more space in which to graze (space costs money). Organic arable farming depends oncrop rotation and lating fields fallow which means smaller yields on average over the years.

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I an understand why food which is "morally" better for us (fair trade) is more expensive as people are paying for their conscience.
Fair-trade farmers are guaranteed a minimum price. Again, this costs.


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What does annoy me though is that free range eggs are more expensive battery eggs: it's been proven that it's cheaper to produce free range eggs as the farmers don't have have to pay for heating etc.
I doubt this - do you have any figures to back this up.


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Surely this is also due to the fat content though? If you buy the cuts of meat with a lower fat content then they won't shrink as much anyway. Friends of mine always buy 25% fat beef mince and then moan at how much of it disappears.
Dubious, but accepted practices to bulk out meat include injecting water, not fat (water is pretty cheap) into the meat. However, to get the water to stay there, it's mixed with pork and beef products including the hide and bones.

It's this water that's evaporating.
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  #24  
Old 17.02.2011, 16:56
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

On a more optimistic note and as evidence that you occasionally get more than you were expecting I was in the CooP the other evening and saw the guy filling the loose carrot tray by tearing open prepacked bags of bio carrots and dumping them in.

Of course I could get all pessimistic now and wonder whether they were really bio in the first place but I bought a kilo of those loose carrots thinking that I got a good deal and they tasted fine to me!

And answering the OPs question if you really did notice any difference could you be sure it wasn't just because you thought you would (placebo)?
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  #25  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:07
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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I have - they do it primarily for the money. No one would be an organic farmer if there was no demand for organic products.
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Running a BIO farm, particularly in Switzerland, costs a lot more and is much harder work. There may be a small minority of farmers who go organic because their products can reach higher prices, but trust me, my BIO farmer neighbours care for their land and animals a lot more than my non BIO neighbours.
My earlier post would appear to contradict yours but that wasn't my intention.

Farmers are like anyone else, they need to make money to pay for running the farm and for their families. If there was no money in it then they wouldn't do it.

And like anyone else, they normally want to maximise their profits (which for today's organic farmers translates to just about breaking even).

A lot of dairy farmers in the U.K. went Organic a few years ago when the government subsidised the conversion which, as Grumpy has touched on, takes time, measured in years and does cost for those few years you're running as organic but not selling at organic prices.

When the bottom fell out of the organic market, the ones out for a quickish buck quickly reverted to non-organic farming but others stayed on as they saw it as a good thing to be in.

And the animals are treated much, much better and have a much better life.

Hats off to all you farmers that care!


On a different, but positive note, the planning applicatiion for the largest dairy farm (non-organic) in Europe, to be built in Leicestershire, was turning down this week due to water pollution concerns.
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  #26  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:24
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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My earlier post would appear to contradict yours but that wasn't my intention.
I should have said that a small minority of farmers may go BIO just because their products can reach higher prices. Of course the ones who go BIO for the ethics also appreciate that the extra work might bring in some extra income too.
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  #27  
Old 17.02.2011, 17:36
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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And answering the OPs question if you really did notice any difference could you be sure it wasn't just because you thought you would (placebo)?
Good point. In 3-4 weeks I reckon the only differences you could reasonably expect to notice could be set down to:
1) stress levels - could be higher, because shopping and cooking just got more complicated - or could be lower as you feel warm and fuzzy about what you're doing
2) particular foods you have substituted - maybe you ate less meat because bio is so much more expensive, or maybe you stopped drinking Red Bull and substituted water and fruit smoothies.

If you kept everything exactly the same in your diet, except bought organic products instead of equivalent non-organic ones, you might be able to make a comparison (although the stress/satisfaction levels would probably still screw it up). You can't reasonably do that though because (unless you already cook almost everything from scratch, don't eat out, etc.) there aren't exact organic equivalents of everything you eat.
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  #28  
Old 17.02.2011, 18:07
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

Yes to both.
I grow my own vegs. I just don't have any attraction to added chemicals, so I can certify my stuff is organic.
It tastes better than the best vegs I can find at the supermarket.
And at the end of the day I hope that the healthy lifestyle will pay off.

OTOH I am beginning to refuse to pay into the hands of unscrupolous middlemen whenever I can. Since I also have the choice of buying directly from a farm (not necessarily certified organic, but "honest") I much prefer the money to go directly to the hands that work the soil. At least I can stare into the face of my man, if the goods aren't up to spec...

IMHO, YMMV, etc...


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  #29  
Old 17.02.2011, 18:49
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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On a more optimistic note and as evidence that you occasionally get more than you were expecting I was in the CooP the other evening and saw the guy filling the loose carrot tray by tearing open prepacked bags of bio carrots and dumping them in.

Of course I could get all pessimistic now and wonder whether they were really bio in the first place but I bought a kilo of those loose carrots thinking that I got a good deal and they tasted fine to me!

And answering the OPs question if you really did notice any difference could you be sure it wasn't just because you thought you would (placebo)?
Actually, there are times that bio stuff is cheaper than non-bio stuff. I was in an EDEKA in Germany once and this was the case for fennel and there were still people buying the non-bio one, although to be honest they have the bio stuff in a section to itself so most people didn't really compare. I stopped the store manager and asked him about it and he said it happens quite often.
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  #30  
Old 17.02.2011, 19:49
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

When we made the move to Organic I found my shopping stress levels levels went down not up. There are whole sections of the supermarket I can just waltz by because I don't need to look at the products since I am not going to buy them, there is less temptation to buy crap that would normally fiill the trolley and cooking is just the same as the ingrediants haven't actually changed. The recipie does not care if the meat is organic or not.

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1) stress levels - could be higher, because shopping and cooking just got more complicated - or could be lower as you feel warm and fuzzy about what you're doing
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Old 17.02.2011, 21:07
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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Actually, there are times that bio stuff is cheaper than non-bio stuff. I was in an EDEKA in Germany once and this was the case for fennel and there were still people buying the non-bio one, although to be honest they have the bio stuff in a section to itself so most people didn't really compare. I stopped the store manager and asked him about it and he said it happens quite often.
Okay, so rain on my parade why don't you! Seriously, I've never even thought to look, I'll make a point of it from now on.

Cheers
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  #32  
Old 17.02.2011, 21:11
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

I have to admit that sometimes I find the organic vegetables sometimes not to my taste - maybe they are going a bit past their date.

But the taste of organic meat is so superior and yes, it is a lot more expensive, but we only have meat once a week so it is a real feast.
For me it is about the living enviroment of the animal.
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Old 17.02.2011, 22:57
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

I guess for me it is a bit of a balance. I have started trying to get into the routine of shopping at the markets, eating produce in season, supporting local farmers, small producers of happy free-range meats and eggs, etc. I try to resist buying from the big mega-corporations. I try to buy as much bio as possible but I also don't want bio flown or shipped from overseas when I could have something that comes from a non-bio farmer Switzerland. When we first moved here, we found the prices of meat so startling that we started eating more beans and vegetarian alternates and we just have continues this way. We feel better, have lost weight, and spend less on groceries. And I have found that eating seasonally has brought a variety to my diet that I really appreciate.
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  #34  
Old 18.02.2011, 10:44
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

If in doubt, eat and drink as Mother Nature intended.

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Old 21.02.2011, 03:21
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

Great comments/ideas . I've got more to think about now
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Old 21.02.2011, 20:55
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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I try to eat additive free but am not convinced by BIO labeled food. It looks like good marketing to me by the shops.
I wanted to post +1, but the role is to post at least 10 characters, so: +1!!
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Old 21.02.2011, 22:21
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

I have been transitioning to organic foods as much as possible over the past 2 years. I try to eat as much whole foods staying away from the processed foods with additives as much as possible and that also includes processed foods that are labeled BIO, they can be just as bad for you as regular foods. I'd like to know what natural chicken flavor as an additive is? No company I have written to has given me a straight answer.

I have noticed a difference since I've changed my diet in so much as I can't stand the over salted chemical tastes of ready made processed foods anymore. It does mean that I have to be much more organized in the kitchen but it is worth. Not just for the taste, I do actually feel healthier for it. Most people who know me keep asking what I've done because apparently I look so much better these days.

In my humble opinion its worth a little more money and effort to have a clean diet. The local bio farmers have my full support.
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Old 21.02.2011, 23:44
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

Organic food myth.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019

I only buy Organic when there is no choice, I don't want to waste my money with inefficient processes which brings no benefits.
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  #39  
Old 21.02.2011, 23:53
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

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I just read about the dishwashing liquid that markets itself as super-green - the one with the frog upfront - and that they also make it with palm oil which is the worst worst deforastation cause.
No, it's not the worst cause of deforestation. Nothing like ...

It is these" my friend told me down the yoghurt bar that ..." type rumours that end up with parents telling there kids really weird and factually void factoids ....
I once worked with someone who refused to use Fairy Liquid, because according to the symbols on a bottle, the makers were devil worshippers. I kid you not ....
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Old 22.02.2011, 07:43
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Re: Eating 100% organic/additive free. Do you do this or are you considering it?

I think there are many notions that get happily mixed up in this thread... at least 3:
  • Pesticides-free, aka organic
  • additives-free
  • heritage-breeds, full maturation, local food, non-genetically modified

Most posts battle against the first point; and indeed, IMHO many of the arguments against pesticides can be dispelled. It remains that some pesticides are worse than others, and as consumers we cannot choose and pick. Some natural ones can be worse than the chemical solution, more expensive, more damaging.

The second point really address industrial production of food. Buy a box of Oreos, read the label, we all are already aware of the dozen additional ingredients there for fake taste, color, texture, preservation, agglutination, surface-finishing, texturizing, stabilizing... Other cookies are not much better, and the same can be said for most products on the shelves of our supermarkets (here as much as in the rest of the world): I prefer to do an extra effort and prepare some of that stuff at home - plus I enjoy cooking. Giving up fast-food is not a huge effort.

Heritage breeds and local food? wow that is lovely. I wish I had more time to look for them, and include them more often in my cooking. yum yum. it is one of my plans for this year...

In the french area: http://www.decroissance.ch/index.php...3.A9durable.ch
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