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  #121  
Old 05.03.2011, 22:38
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Re: Aromat

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MSG is a an amino acid, found in lots of proteins, so it is generated in your gut when these proteins are digested. Gelatin is one third glutamate. It is also a neurotransmitter, used in the brain. It is consumed in large amounts in the Far East as soy sauce, fermented fish sauce, etc, with no apparent ill effects. And in Europe as yeast extracts: Marmite; Vegemite and Cenovis, with no apparent ill effects.

Given all this, it is very suprising that people say that they are allergic to it. Indeed, Wikipedia the source of all knowledge ) says that there is no conclusive evidence for such a phenomenon.
OK, if you (and Wikipedia ) say so ...
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  #122  
Old 05.03.2011, 22:55
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Re: Aromat

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MSG is a an amino acid, found in lots of proteins, so it is generated in your gut when these proteins are digested. Gelatin is one third glutamate. It is also a neurotransmitter, used in the brain. It is consumed in large amounts in the Far East as soy sauce, fermented fish sauce, etc, with no apparent ill effects. And in Europe as yeast extracts: Marmite; Vegemite and Cenovis, with no apparent ill effects.

Given all this, it is very suprising that people say that they are allergic to it. Indeed, Wikipedia the source of all knowledge ) says that there is no conclusive evidence for such a phenomenon.
It is also manufactured artificially.
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  #123  
Old 05.03.2011, 23:09
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Re: Aromat

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MSG is a an amino acid, found in lots of proteins, so it is generated in your gut when these proteins are digested. Gelatin is one third glutamate. It is also a neurotransmitter, used in the brain. It is consumed in large amounts in the Far East as soy sauce, fermented fish sauce, etc, with no apparent ill effects. And in Europe as yeast extracts: Marmite; Vegemite and Cenovis, with no apparent ill effects.

Given all this, it is very suprising that people say that they are allergic to it. Indeed, Wikipedia the source of all knowledge ) says that there is no conclusive evidence for such a phenomenon.
Then how can you account for the fact that so many people are intolerant/allergic to it?
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It is also manufactured artificially.
Precisely, and I believe that this is when its usage is most damaging.

Last edited by NSchulzi; 05.03.2011 at 23:21. Reason: sp
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  #124  
Old 05.03.2011, 23:17
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Re: Aromat

You've gotta love claims that allergies are the figment of peoples imagination.

When you see the effects of it, you would realise this is not made up in peoples minds.
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  #125  
Old 05.03.2011, 23:37
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Re: Aromat

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Then how can you account for the fact that so many people are intolerant/allergic to it?

Precisely, and I believe that this is when its usage is most damaging.
1) Commercial MSG is not made artificially. It is fermented by bacteria, because it's cheaper that way.
2) What is the difference between a molecule "made artificially" and one "made naturally"? I would say that they are identical, but then I'm a chemist.

RE. self diagnosis of allergies: the brain can play tricks on you. In a famous psychology experiment people ate steak and chips (fries) under a red light. When the light changed to white light, they discovered that the steak was blue and the chips were red, colored with harmless food dyes. Half of them vomitted.

Last edited by FrankZappa; 05.03.2011 at 23:39. Reason: minor spelling corrections
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  #126  
Old 05.03.2011, 23:45
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Re: Aromat

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1)

RE. self diagnosis of allergies: the brain can play tricks on you. In a famous psychology experiment people ate steak and chips (fries) under a red light. When the light changed to white light, they discovered that the steak was blue and the chips were red, colored with harmless food dyes. Half of them vomitted.
That may be so, yet how can you account for obvious physical symptoms?
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  #127  
Old 05.03.2011, 23:53
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Re: Aromat

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Then how can you account for the fact that so many people are intolerant/allergic to it?
What percentage of the population is allergic to MSG?

More than those with nut allergies? (I'll bet not)

Should we ban nuts?

Tom
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  #128  
Old 05.03.2011, 23:55
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Re: Aromat

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1) Commercial MSG is not made artificially. It is fermented by bacteria, because it's cheaper that way.
2) What is the difference between a molecule "made artificially" and one "made naturally"? I would say that they are identical, but then I'm a chemist.

RE. self diagnosis of allergies: the brain can play tricks on you. In a famous psychology experiment people ate steak and chips (fries) under a red light. When the light changed to white light, they discovered that the steak was blue and the chips were red, colored with harmless food dyes. Half of them vomitted.
You are correct it is made using bacteria, it is also made within an industrial environment. This in itself is not necessarily bad agreed.

When a person has a predisposition to a certain chemical, when taken in concentrated forms (which MSG is) it can be detrimental to that persons biological system.

Your example has absolutely nothing to do with allergic reactions to certain food.

Allergies can manifest themselves in people that are not even aware they are eating a certain food that causes a reaction.

Ask a child eating a food who is allergic to peanuts, when it is not labelled as having peanuts. What can happen to that child? Death is an extreme reaction but it does occur and is well documented. Is this a figment of that childs imagination? Mind tricks leading to death?
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  #129  
Old 06.03.2011, 00:00
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Re: Aromat

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What percentage of the population is allergic to MSG?

More than those with nut allergies? (I'll bet not)

Should we ban nuts?

Tom
Certainly agree it should not be banned.

It would help if restaurants were legally obliged to state what ingredients they use in their food (for all types of allergies). Easier said than done.
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  #130  
Old 06.03.2011, 00:03
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Re: Aromat

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What percentage of the population is allergic to MSG?

More than those with nut allergies? (I'll bet not)

Should we ban nuts?

Tom
I don't know, on both counts. However, it is much easier for one to make a concerted decision to avoid nuts; whereas the insidious use of MSG makes it somewhat more difficult to avoid.

And the whole issue of MSG has arisen from the initial topic of this thread, ie, Aromat, which contains a relatively huge amount of MSG; a fact that most of the consumers on here, at least, appear to have been unaware of.
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  #131  
Old 06.03.2011, 00:29
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Re: Aromat

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Allergic or intolerant to MSG?
Medically proved or self diagnosed?
Why is that relevant? It is completely acceptable that one possibly does not tolerate MSG, if you looked around, elsewhere in EU, you would find govs being extremely careful with legislature concerning E numbers, E 621 especially (with colors, artif. sweeteners, preservatives, etc). Back home it is banned from any kid food, and it must be declared as ingredient together with warning "MSG is a neuroactive agent, children should avoid it, do not give it to anyone under 3yrs because it can cause hyperactivity, avoid ingestion if you experience allergic reaction" etc. Just like artificial sweeteners must have label saying it is harmful for phenylketonurics and can cause diarhea.

It will be the same here, soon. I have no doubts about it. Aromat is pushed, coz it is manufactured here and it is not difficult to get hooked on it and crave the flavor. Easy. One does not need to cook that well, either.

Just remember bisphenoA, while a few years back people didn't even know about it here and crappy baby bottles and plastic toys, milk storage containers were happily sold here to uninformed customers, elsewhere people were already alarmed. Sometimes things take a little longer here.

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MSG is only the sodium salt of a naturally occurring substance - glutamic acid. That in turn is one of the most common neurotransmitters in the brain
Yes. It is. And one does not need PhD to actually know that what is present in nature, in very simple and digestible form, can be evil for some people in artificial form or higher doses. Everyone knows there are people who cannot really absorb artificially manufactured vits and minerals, how come? Shouldn't we all just metabolize them easily since they are naturally present in fresh food? Well, we don't. I gag if I pop a artificially manufactured Calcium, shouldn't I just love it since it is present in dairy in a natural form and I can easily absorb that one?

And, yes, very good neurotransmitter it is. I put myself on a ramen noodle diet anytime I was seriously cramming, since it really did help me think, analyze, retain data and boosted my memory big time. On the other hand, it gave me monstrous headaches, water retention, dizziness, sleep problems, spazz, irritability and general appetite mess.

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Most of the information is anecdotal and doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny. We would label fish, nuts, celery, soya, mustard as allergens. But not MSG
Most of the info you can find, and I have access to as well since my family is all into toxicology, health risk assessment and the whole environmental public health inspector shebang, is simply info stating that the relevant tests have not so far proven substantial risk that would be 100% applicable to humans, yady ya. Not that MSG is harmless. Only that so far, certain tests have not proven it harmful. Says nothing about how healthy it actually is, nor when in the future the right tests will actually happen or when there is enough cash to actually do some proper testing. Just like with anything else that has later on been proven bad/good. I wouldn't suggest anyone to load up on it, really, and my family stays away from this, anyone I know, pretty much. We are grossed out by jocks chowing down on powdered chemicals in shakes even though you can get protein in natural form, sure. Why would somebody use chemically manufactured white crystallic substance, that smells and tastes completely fake, on their normal food, beats me. We all obsess on different stuff, but I wouldn't shoot down and mock people here who have had difficulty with this particular chemical, since I know too many (myself included) who follow suit.

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What I've come to realize is that MSG-based seasonings* -- be it Aromat, liquid Maggi sauce, regular bouillon cubes, or Ajinomoto in Asia -- are often used by amateur cooks who simply don't know how to actually give food flavor...
Great post, tooki. I agree. I can always taste that thing in anything, it is hard to disguise it. Pretty much all canteen food I have eaten here, Coop resto, Migro soggy veggies, meats dishes, ets. It's omnipresent. Ikea is great, I haven't tasted that (with the exception of the meatball sauce and veggie sauce they serve with salmon) anywhere in their food. Their kid pasta dishes are also MSG free, I think. Blech. The worst is when I order some great crispy beautiful salad and am dying to bite into some lovely greens and then the MSG dressing kills my taste buds...Murder.

If you know how to cook, you can do it without MSG. You can do it without dreadful amounts of butter and overstewing, too. You can go to your local reformhouse or healthfood store, and get buillon that is 100% natural, those are so lovely, especially the wet ones, with yeast. Marmite, yeast extract, gel buillons chemical free, miso, nut pastes and oils, you name it, even Knorr does stock with no chemicals, it is fab. Food pastes from Marks and Sparks, genial and chemical free, too. Once you stay away from MSG, you realize how nice and different food can be.
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  #132  
Old 06.03.2011, 22:30
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Re: Aromat

the last part of this video talks about MSG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpE6097WXd0
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  #133  
Old 13.03.2011, 23:56
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Re: Aromat

Just a followup: Last night, on my quest to make really tasty chicken broth without added stuff, I finally tried the method of roasting it first. What a difference! I took a whole chicken and cut it into about 12 pieces, tossed them with salt, pepper and olive oil, and shoved them into a 250C oven (convection; as hot as my oven would go) to get the skin nice and deep golden brown. I guess that took 10 mins or so. Then I put it in a pot with onion, a tad of carrot, garlic, a bay leaf or two, and salt. 45 minutes later, the best stock I've ever made.

(With it, I made this recipe, which I wholeheartedly recommend: Chicken Soup With Lemon and Bulgur. It was a winner all of my dinner guests enjoyed.)
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  #134  
Old 14.03.2011, 00:05
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Re: Aromat

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the last part of this video talks about MSG.
You do realize the Internet is not a definitive source of information? Anyone can put up whatever they want, which can range from a true learned expert on a topic, all the way to a complete loon.
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  #135  
Old 14.03.2011, 23:30
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Re: Aromat

yeah, of course.
I actually do not care about MSG or whatever.
Hey, i do not drink, smoke or anything so a bit of MSG is ok :P
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