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  #21  
Old 22.09.2011, 13:45
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Thanks.....good link

Help me out with what though?
...all your questions about eggs, meat, milk 'n whatnot. The shop is near the Thun Bahnhof and the farm is just above Seftigen. Why not see for yourself?
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  #22  
Old 22.09.2011, 13:48
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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I like this attitude on the topic!

Personal I avoid the product due to generally abigious use of the terms and actual benefits.
Chemmie - this is a great point and one which I think the industry has got badly wrong.....what is it FOR? Is it
1. Health
2. Nutrition
3. Sustainable Agriculture / Green concerns
4. Animal Treatment (not esp important for potatoes)

Thats actually one of the reasons I asked the question....I was interested why people buy what...

(I can't for the live of me see an argument for organic t-shirts or toilet roll, for example)
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  #23  
Old 22.09.2011, 13:49
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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I buy nothing with a "BIO" sticker on it. It's a choice I made many years ago, and I am still to find a good reason to change it. Won't put a "conventional" carrot bomb on you because you do though
This I don't understand. I can understand if you don't make a deliberate buying decision to buy bio based on costs or what-have-you, but this seems to be totally unsubstantiated.

For argument's sake, if 1L of bio milk cost less than 1L of conventional milk, everything else being the same, would you avoid buying bio? Why?

I don't want to sound confrontational, I just fail to see how the bio label can be viewed negatively. Sure, some have stricter quality control and standards than others, but in and of itself, I see it only as a positive system.

Would love to hear your thoughts.
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  #24  
Old 22.09.2011, 13:50
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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In principle, my OH and I would like to buy organic and free-range as often as possible (also local, but that's a bit OT). Funnily enough, we each do it for different reasons. She does it mostly for the personal health benefits. I do it mostly for the ecological benefits.
I tend to choose organic over non-organic if it's locally sourced fruit and veg otherwise we try and get it from local farmers (But don't always succeed)

We always buy organic milk - again local if we can because it tastes better (I ought to do one of my blind tastings to see whether it really does).

(But then we don't normally get organic cheese or butter)

Meat is almost always organic or Natura-farm as it tastes better (IMO) and the animals get treated better (fact).
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Old 22.09.2011, 13:51
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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...all your questions about eggs, meat, milk 'n whatnot. The shop is near the Thun Bahnhof and the farm is just above Seftigen. Why not see for yourself?
Ah, I see - thanks. It wasn't so much that I had questions about it myself, I just interested in how people make their buying choices.

I know the shop actually.....but never shopped there. (Its actually a pet frustration of mine - their opening hours, but thats a different thread!)
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  #26  
Old 22.09.2011, 13:51
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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4. Animal treatment (not esp important for potatoes)

don't judge the potatoes ! :d:d:d
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Old 22.09.2011, 13:53
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Chemmie - this is a great point and one which I think the industry has got badly wrong.....what is it FOR? Is it
1. Health
2. Nutrition
3. Sustainable Agriculture / Green concerns
4. Animal Treatment (not esp important for potatoes)
To me, this is why it is the obvious choice. It addresses (note I didn't say solves) ALL of these issues.

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(I can't for the live of me see an argument for organic t-shirts or toilet roll, for example)
T-shirts made from 100% organic cotton as well as toilet paper (or other paper products) from sources that are sustainably managed through forest certification schemes are geared more toward those who make their buying decisions for ecological reasons.
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Old 22.09.2011, 13:54
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Isn't all food organic?
salt isn't.
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  #29  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:02
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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T-shirts made from 100% organic cotton as well as toilet paper (or other paper products) from sources that are sustainably managed through forest certification schemes are geared more toward those who make their buying decisions for ecological reasons.
With a risk of taking it off topic, I'm not sure that those things are necessarily "organic"....you can get sustainable forestry with FSC certification, and cotton is like any other crop and i THINK (not pretending I KNOW) that organic cotton yields much less than conventional farmed cotton and so needs much more water etc.
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  #30  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:02
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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back in the US I definitely leaned towards buying and promoting orgranic and even leaned vegetarian in my eating habits. Even though I'm not consciously shopping for organic here, it probably is an unconscious decision that I'm making even if I'm not aware of it. I think it's also a reason why I prefer Coop to Migros.
I leaned toward vegetarian as well back in the US. Possibly because organic foods in all forms were in abundance. You could get tofu in any form and flavor and the selection of organic fruits and veggies was overwhelming so I never got bored with eating. Plus, the prices were pretty affordable.

It's a lot more difficult, limited, and expensive here but I still try to get bio fruits & veggies when I can.
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  #31  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:05
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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are there any people like me who buy SOME things are organic for specific reasons?
I try to buy organic anything fresh that I'm going to consume raw; mostly:

* Almonds and Hazels to do my own nut milk
* Organic hemp for hemp oil, milk and butter
* Seeds to sprout
* Cane sugar
* Milk (from the farm) to make homemade cream, butter and yogurt

I don't usually buy organic vegs and fruits, as I grow them myself.

But to be completely honest, I often wonder if this "organic" buzzword isn't just a complete scam to make us feel better
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  #32  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:05
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

I think the Swiss producers and consumers are pretty serious about Bio. This site, unfortunately only in German, covers it pretty thoroughly.

http://www.bioaktuell.ch/

...and yes, I can taste, and sometimes smell the difference between Bio and non-Bio, particularly when it comes to insecticides and chemicals used in both production and post production. I am not at all a fanatic about it, but the difference is certainly noticeable, once you have become sensitized to it.

...and just to mention one small point on TP, and many other products for that matter, the preservatives can, for example, make your ass sore and really screw you up.
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  #33  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:08
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

For me, I always buy Bio yoghurt, I sampled all the supermarket natural yoghurts... and it's the best!
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  #34  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:09
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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...and just to mention one small point on TP, and many other products for that matter, the preservatives can, for example, make your ass sore and really screw you up.

What's TP??!! I want to avoid it!
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  #35  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:10
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

I ought to add that we always buy organic yogurts.

If I asked myself why - it would have to be because they taste better, they really do.

It amazes me on this forum, the food snobs who say things like you can't cook a proper authentic Napoletana pizza unless you have a purpose-built 5000CHF brick pizza oven and use buffalo mozzarella from virgin buffalo fed on a diet of spring greens etc etc and anyone else is just wasting their time.
And then on another thread the same person says they get their chickens at Denner for 7CHF a kilo supplied by a battery farm but don't think to consider the taste difference (or worse, can't tell the difference).

(Just an example, more or less).

Anyway, taste is paramount.

Last edited by Tom1234; 22.09.2011 at 14:19. Reason: grammar
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Old 22.09.2011, 14:13
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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@Meisie: I don't mean to try to prevent you from going vegan, but you really should check out the "Naturafarm" range from Coop:
http://www.coop.ch/pb/site/viva/node...Lde/index.html
As far as I know, they have extremely stiff and high standards for their meat and the way the animals are kept and fed.
Thank you moepp . I'm still on the fence about it.. This thread is really great as many of the links posted the and other info given, provides me with answers I have about the food here in CH. One of the main reasons why I am on the fence about it is really because I just can't imagine Swiss farmers mistreating their animals. I know, sounds naive.
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Old 22.09.2011, 14:15
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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  #38  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:19
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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What's TP??!! I want to avoid it!
...Toilet Paper, silly.
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  #39  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:20
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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What's TP??!! I want to avoid it!
I like your commitment. To be completely eco-friendly, you must use your hands.
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  #40  
Old 22.09.2011, 14:24
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

Just imagine you are a farmer, and after every harvest you need to replace the "goodness" you have just taken from your land. You could use cow manure or you could buy some fertilizer from Landi. You are also a business man and need to keep costs low as your salary here is only about CHF 6'000 per month.

Which action would you take
a. Buy lots of fertilizer for your crops and watch most of it wash away into the rivers.
b. Buy the minimum necessary and maximise your profits.
c. Buy manure and spread it, ensuring you can keep the Bio certification.

The results will be
a. Vegetables with traces of edible chemicals.
b. Vegetables with traces of edible chemicals.
c. Vegetables with traces of edible chemicals.

During the growing period you need to reduce white fly, carrot fly etc.
a. You use lots of insecticide spray, kill 'em all!
b. You use the minimum chemicals advised to maximise your profits.
c. You are not allowed any chemicals, maybe you plant marigolds and lavender.

When you harvest your crops
a. They are decent looking vegetables.
b. They are decent looking vegetables.
c. They are looking happy with half of them chewed up with bugs & worms.

My argument is the farmer is not going to use too many chemicals because it directly affects his income. He might go along with all the difficulties and obtain the Bio certification, but his yield will be poor and the image quality of the crops will be poor due to all the worm holes: he will have to raise the price to remain solvent.

All my Grandparents died before they reached 68 years of age. Both my parents are over 90 years old. So an enormous increase in life expectancy in just one generation, and I assure you my parents only ever shopped in London supermarkets - no Bio!

If you feel the need to buy Bio then please go ahead. I buy whatever is on special offer. I notice that cheap meat has a fish smell, probably after being fed with ground fish. I do buy Coop Bio eggs in the green boxes, as they do taste better than the others.

Interestingly Aldi sell many Bio products which are much cheaper than the Coop / Migros Bio products.

Do you realise that Bio reared animals go to the same slaughter houses as the working class animals? I believe it is here that conditions could be improved, especially for chickens and other poultry.
.
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