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  #81  
Old 22.09.2011, 18:05
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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I would also like to point out that only a small fraction of the human population would be present if ... and the world would be very different ....
For the better, IMO.
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  #82  
Old 22.09.2011, 18:20
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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For the better, IMO.
Bloody technology. It all went wrong once we came down from the trees.
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  #83  
Old 22.09.2011, 18:29
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Bloody technology. It all went wrong once we came down from the trees.
Only one solution.
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  #84  
Old 22.09.2011, 18:49
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Only one solution.
...sort of.

The problem with humans is that they always make sure that the supply of humans exceeds the supply of survival resources.

Study the nitty-gritty truth of Easter Island, supplant their gods with our material gods, and there goes the rest of the world.

Sampler: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2309582
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  #85  
Old 22.09.2011, 19:02
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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I would also like to point out that only a small fraction of the human population would be present if it wasn't for the Haber-Bosch process for making synthetic fertilizer.
Would have been good. No? Any fertilizers being worked on to control human pests?
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  #86  
Old 22.09.2011, 20:43
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Mine are

1. Eggs / Chicken - I don't like the conditions or the medication they are given

3. Milk - same reason as chicken, to avoid the medication and growth hormones
May be naive, but I wonder if Swiss meat/milk/eggs can be assumed more bio than other countries'. The zillions of cows and sheep I've seen while cycling/hiking around the country seem very close to nature (and as happy as a cow can be). I can't imagine those farmers using growth hormones or over-medicating.

Does anybody know if there are industrial animal farms in Switzerland, with the abysmal conditions I've seen in films like Unser taglich Brot (Europe-based) and Food Inc. (U.S.-based)?
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  #87  
Old 22.09.2011, 20:51
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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May be naive, but I wonder if Swiss meat/milk/eggs can be assumed more bio than other countries'. The zillions of cows and sheep I've seen while cycling/hiking around the country seem very close to nature (and as happy as a cow can be). I can't imagine those farmers using growth hormones or over-medicating.
There are farms in the U.K. that are run in a very similar way to the Swiss ones with small herds fed on grass in open fields most of the year.

The cows look very fit and happy there too.

Growth hormones are banned here.

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Does anybody know if there are industrial animal farms in Switzerland, with the abysmal conditions I've seen in films like Unser taglich Brot (Europe-based) and Food Inc. (U.S.-based)?

Chicken battery farms have been banned in Switzerland since 2009. Not sure about other forms of high-capacity farming.
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  #88  
Old 22.09.2011, 21:02
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

What the hell does a 'happy cow' look like?



How do you find 'happy cows'? Is there some kind of bovine e-meter like the Scientologists use? Do you have something like a pH meter that you stick in their poop to check for endorphins?
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  #89  
Old 22.09.2011, 21:02
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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May be naive, but I wonder if Swiss meat/milk/eggs can be assumed more bio than other countries'. The zillions of cows and sheep I've seen while cycling/hiking around the country seem very close to nature (and as happy as a cow can be). I can't imagine those farmers using growth hormones or over-medicating.

Does anybody know if there are industrial animal farms in Switzerland, with the abysmal conditions I've seen in films like Unser taglich Brot (Europe-based) and Food Inc. (U.S.-based)?
Yes there are.
I don`t know why, but every so often I get VgT magazine dropped in my letter box ..... and this investigates those farmers, and organisations, that support this type of thing.... Cruelty to Animals... whether it be Pharmaceutical firms with their animal experiments, or rabbits/hens/pigs, cows/etc for meat production.

They also publish a Black List of suppliers to avoid, if you care about the state of the animals you eat.
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  #90  
Old 22.09.2011, 21:08
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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What the hell does a 'happy cow' look like?



How do you find 'happy cows'? Is there some kind of bovine e-meter like the Scientologists use? Do you have something like a pH meter that you stick in their poop to check for endorphins?
They jump around in a happy fashion.

People think they know their dogs and cats are happy so why not cows?

Perhaps it's more that they don't look unhappy.

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  #91  
Old 22.09.2011, 21:11
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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What the hell does a 'happy cow' look like?



How do you find 'happy cows'? Is there some kind of bovine e-meter like the Scientologists use? Do you have something like a pH meter that you stick in their poop to check for endorphins?
There`s a farm near me where you can see "happy cows". Lovely.
They live in a big barn, with open stalls, where they can wander in and out as they like, with their calves ....... beautiful big meadows where they spend their sunny days.

The farm runs a restaurant. I`m pretty sure its not on any tourist maps, such a pity.

You can eat outside (smoking)... or inside .... in summer they have outdoor movies on a giant screen ........ and in the day the cows and the bull scratch themselves on the screens poles.

You can buy meat at the farm ...... graphic photos of how your animal grew up to slaughter age ........ .. but at least it lived a fairly normal type of life!

It`s in Buchberg ... called, I think ..... Bessenbeitz ...or something like that.
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  #92  
Old 22.09.2011, 21:12
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

I've seen literature from a Baselland animal rights organisation (sorry, can't recall the name) with photos and articles about factory farms/animals being kept in poor conditions. They actually named the farms in some cases and in others worked with the farmers to enrich conditions.
Don't know how widespread these abuses are though.

I agree with many posters that the negative environmental impact of intensive agriculture is a very good reason to buy organic as there is usually an environmental protection element in bio certification criteria. I'm not totallyconvinced that I'll live longer if I eat organic stuff, but I do remember a study being published that showed that two year olds that had eaten a wholely organic diet had much lower pestcide residues in their bodies than a control 'non-organic' group. I guess they used little children in the study as their diets can be, and often are, strictly controlled by concerned parents.

Someone mentioned cotton, which is one of the 'dirtiest' crops and uses a lot of water (in organic and non organuc system). Ironically, it's GM technology that is condemned by a lot of organic supporters that has enabled cotton to be produced in a much cleaner way.
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  #93  
Old 22.09.2011, 21:13
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Chicken battery farms have been banned in Switzerland since 2009. Not sure about other forms of high-capacity farming.
I'm sure you are right...but there are still industrial farms and other types.....would be interested what the Swiss standard is vs naturafarm vs bio....does anybody know?
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  #94  
Old 22.09.2011, 21:24
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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I'm sure you are right...but there are still industrial farms and other types.....would be interested what the Swiss standard is vs naturafarm vs bio....does anybody know?
According to this link, there are strict limits to the size of animals farms so industrial farming (i.e. on a really large scale) is basically illegal

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In Switzerland industrial animal production is not possible for different reasons: the animal and water protection laws, maximum limits for animal stock and the fact that the construction of livestock buildings is subject to approval by the authorities.
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Old 22.09.2011, 22:01
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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There`s a farm near me where you can see "happy cows". Lovely.

The farm runs a restaurant.
So....they get to be raised in full view of where they're going to be slaughtered and eaten and this makes them....happy? Me thinks thou doth anthropomorphize too much. Would you be 'happy' if alien invaders started farming humans for food but let them run around in grassy meadows and have internet access but you occasionally had to watch your friend or your relative go over to 'the barn' around the time a lot of happy peckish aliens arrived every weekend?
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Old 22.09.2011, 22:04
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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What the hell does a 'happy cow' look like?
Happy cows come from California, silly.



Last edited by bedevil; 22.09.2011 at 22:07. Reason: fixed link
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  #97  
Old 22.09.2011, 22:07
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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Would you be 'happy' if alien invaders started farming humans for food but let them run around in grassy meadows and have internet access but you occasionally had to watch your friend or your relative go over to 'the barn' around the time a lot of happy peckish aliens arrived every weekend?
Sorry but that's totally unrealistic.

Aliens are certainly not peckish.
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Old 22.09.2011, 22:18
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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New Zealand slaughters animals according to Muslim laws, and exports the chilled lamb in refrigerated transport to Arab countries, so it can be done. We don't need to send live animals on ten day journeys to African and middle east countries, just to satisfy the local religious beliefs, the animals can be slaughtered in Europe.
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Many countries outlaw ritual slaughter.
Just because the slaughter follows Muslim law, does not make it ritual slaughter. To make meat Halal for Muslims is similar to making it Kosher for Jewish. In fact, if it is kosher, it is also considered Halal. It is mainly based on the METHOD of slaughter. For kosher, I believe, a prayer is also said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

Last edited by bedevil; 22.09.2011 at 22:19. Reason: added link
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  #99  
Old 22.09.2011, 22:21
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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So....they get to be raised in full view of where they're going to be slaughtered and eaten and this makes them....happy? Me thinks thou doth anthropomorphize too much. Would you be 'happy' if alien invaders started farming humans for food but let them run around in grassy meadows and have internet access but you occasionally had to watch your friend or your relative go over to 'the barn' around the time a lot of happy peckish aliens arrived every weekend?
Okay, should we instead say the cows are healthy and not under stress?

I'm sure a vet would be able to deduce that.



The same way that a vet could deduce that a cow living in a 10,000 cow feed lot in other countries was probably under more stress and less healthy.

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Old 22.09.2011, 22:31
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Re: What do you buy that is Bio / Organic?

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According to this link, there are strict limits to the size of animals farms so industrial farming (i.e. on a really large scale) is basically illegal
Wasnt really the answer to the difference between standards
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