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Old 03.11.2011, 13:26
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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As I have never been to this US store I might not be able to help you but if you want organic products you should be looking for a "Reformhaus". The biggest chain in Switzerland is Müller. They have many stores in the German part of Switzerland and also some in the Italian part but based on their homepage do not operate in the French part.
They also sell things like soap etc.
Check http://www.reformhaus.ch/verkaufsstellen/index.php

Please do not confuse the Reformhaus Müller with "Müller" which is a German chain and not organic.

Hope that helps!
I gather it's not the organic products that they crave but the concept that WF and TJs offer.

You can get organic products in any supermarket here in Switzerland, not just at a Reformhouse.

Even Lidl sell a lot of organic products including vegetables and really good organic yougurts from the Appenzell area.
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Old 03.11.2011, 13:33
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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I gather it's not the organic products that they crave but the concept that WF and TJs offer.

You can get organic products in any supermarket here in Switzerland, not just at a Reformhouse.

Even Lidl sell a lot of organic products including vegetables and really good organic yougurts from the Appenzell area.
Yes, exactly. It's the cachet of the place.
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  #23  
Old 03.11.2011, 13:45
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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Yes, exactly. It's the cachet of the place.
And not the fact that a lot of the organic food actually comes from China and other places.

In fact the USDA grabbed the organic concept and conveniently took out the bits that didn't fit with the farming methods of big-business agriculture, and created their own organic rules.

So, nice concept and nice feel-good signs over the shop entrances proclaiming that "Wholefoods supports the local farmer" but that's not really the case.
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Old 03.11.2011, 13:54
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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And not the fact that a lot of the organic food actually comes from China and other places.

In fact the USDA grabbed the organic concept and conveniently took out the bits that didn't fit with the farming methods of big-business agriculture, and created their own organic rules.

So, nice concept and nice feel-good signs over the shop entrances proclaiming that "Wholefoods supports the local farmer" but that's not really the case.
The organic food at WF comes from China? What are you smoking? Have you ever been inside a WF?

And where do you think most of the food in Migros and COOP come from? Are apples from NZ from some lesser known canton and not New Zealand? You should take some time the next visit you make to Migros and explore just how many countries the food inside there comes from.

And, I'll assume that you understand that fraud involving the packaging and marketing of bio/organic products is not restricted to the US. There have been newspaper articles about non-organic chicken being repackaged as such even here...and it was from *gasp* one of those easter european countries.

I'm not sure why you feel so insecure as to attack just about anything that comes up about the US, but maybe you could do even a little bit of research to back up your claims before going bonkers as it makes you seem like little more than an idiot and I'm trying hard to figure maybe you're just a miserable git who is homesick and grabbing at reasons to stay...or something.
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Old 03.11.2011, 14:35
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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And not the fact that a lot of the organic food actually comes from China and other places.

In fact the USDA grabbed the organic concept and conveniently took out the bits that didn't fit with the farming methods of big-business agriculture, and created their own organic rules.

So, nice concept and nice feel-good signs over the shop entrances proclaiming that "Wholefoods supports the local farmer" but that's not really the case.
No, actually, I don't agree with that. For example, you used to be able to get all manner of processed meats (proscuitto from Parma, for example) at Whole Foods, and at least 4 or 5 years ago, they stopped selling anything that might have antibiotics or nitrates, hence the lack of availability of some rather nice products. Proscuitto from Iowa, as I said, doesn't do it for me.

Now I've not been in a WF for a couple of years, but I don't think there is a huge amount of mislabeling based on origin. I don't believe that everything in WF is organic, either, but there are some rules about processing. Also, if they deal in local produce, my guess is that not all of it is "organic". A local farmer was once explaining to us how difficult and expensive it was to satisfy the organic designation for a small farm, so lots of them didn't bother. Still, their food was local and minimally processed.

Don't get me wrong - I used to shop there all the time (it was near my house), but I also recognize the cultishness of it, at least where I lived. It's the shopping experience, the way the stores look, the people who hang there, the whole thing. And it did prepare me for Swiss prices after all.
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  #26  
Old 03.11.2011, 15:02
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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The organic food at WF comes from China? What are you smoking? Have you ever been inside a WF?
From the Wholefoods website:

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Whole Foods Market continues to buy from China because we believe in supporting farmers that provide high quality products.
Our strategy is not to run away from our Chinese suppliers, but to take a stand and get closer to our suppliers. We will continue to improve on the audit and testing procedures that are already in place.
Organic farming has a long history in China.
Our strategy is to build long term partnerships with our Chinese suppliers.
We are confident in the quality and integrity of our products from all countries, including China.

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I'm not sure why you feel so insecure as to attack just about anything that comes up about the US, but maybe you could do even a little bit of research to back up your claims before going bonkers as it makes you seem like little more than an idiot and I'm trying hard to figure maybe you're just a miserable git who is homesick and grabbing at reasons to stay...or something.
It's called discussion. Unlike you, I question everything.

I know you are patriotic and all that but I am getting a bit sick and tired of all these threads that knock Europe and paint such a rosy picture of the U.S. (who's homesick now?).

I'm just countering that with the other side of the argument. The trouble is, you think it's an attack on everything in the U.S. which it's not.

Read Edot's post for a more balanced view than yours.
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  #27  
Old 03.11.2011, 15:23
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

I didn't know that WF felt the need to be so explicit about stuff from China... the PR department was totally feeling the need to spin.

Interesting, such a pointed response about China... I bet they got a lot of flack about having food from China in their stores.... WF does have a sizeable International Foods section.

My problem is with WF corporate, and for example how they give out health insurance discounts based on Body Mass Index, allowing possibly unhealthy underweight individuals to get the highest discount, and possibly healthy but overweight individuals to get no discount at all. I just hate things based on prejudice framed as "science."

Well, that and the loss of my proscuitto (which I can get in bulk here, and for a lot less money).

When we first moved to Chapel Hill, the folks who worked in Wellspring (later Whole Foods) were wonderfully funky - tattoo'ed, pierced, dreads. Then WF bought them and I saw lots of these folks migrate to the organic food co-op in town.
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  #28  
Old 03.11.2011, 15:32
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

There's nothing wrong with Wholefoods per se, as long as people realise that they're getting global mass-industry giant farm food in a slightly different guise from other big supermarkets and badged in a make you feel-good way.
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  #29  
Old 03.11.2011, 15:44
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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It's called discussion. Unlike you, I question everything.
Well, then why is questioning anything about Switzerland considered wrong but, having a bash on, say, US Toilet paper habits, butt wiping or making sweeping generalizations about the source of WFs organic foods having an inquisitive mind? I think this is generally called 'bias'.

Sure, WF imports food from China as does every other bloody country on the earth, but to say that 'most' of the food is from China is unsubstantiated bias that goes along with a few other statements you made previously about local food in the US. It's 'discussion' when you agree and something else when you don't.

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I know you are patriotic and all that but I am getting a bit sick and tired of all these threads that knock Europe and paint such a rosy picture of the U.S. (who's homesick now?).
I'm not exactly patriotic, just getting tired of the little bitchy ways in which Euros tend to go at the US in the most absurdly unimportant ways. It's particularly unwelcome from members of the 51st state, one that I also hold a passport to.

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I'm just countering that with the other side of the argument. The trouble is, you think it's an attack on everything in the U.S. which it's not.

Read Edot's post for a more balanced view than yours.
What argument? It's a store full of food that a certain demographic in the US enjoys shopping at. They're a corporation. They make money. They are no different in this than any other grocery in any country in the world...including CH.
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  #30  
Old 03.11.2011, 16:18
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

Now what I miss, is an all you can eat salad bar for one price, like the plantation. Sorry a bit off topic!
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  #31  
Old 03.11.2011, 16:27
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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I'm not exactly patriotic, just getting tired of the little bitchy ways in which Euros tend to go at the US in the most absurdly unimportant ways. It's particularly unwelcome from members of the 51st state, one that I also hold a passport to.
.
Deluded or a poor attempt at humour.

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.........It's a store full of food that a certain demographic in the US enjoys shopping at. They're a corporation. They make money. They are no different in this than any other grocery in any country in the world...including CH.
The thread started with someone asking whether there was anything here like wholefoods that sold Organic produce. I replied that most places in Switzerland did.

How exactly is that anti-U.S.?
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  #32  
Old 03.11.2011, 16:33
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

most US retailers import from China. You won't find much in the world today that doesn't include China somewhere in its supply chain. 'Tis True. Even the Swiss companies that we hold so dear include China in their production and supply. 'Tis true.

So don't beat up WF or any US company unless you're going to beat up the things made in Switzerland... and I'm not just referring to fake Swiss tea kettles. China is the future. We'll just have to grin and bear it.
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Old 03.11.2011, 16:39
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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most US retailers import from China. You won't find much in the world today that doesn't include China somewhere in its supply chain. 'Tis True. Even the Swiss companies that we hold so dear include China in their production and supply. 'Tis true.

So don't beat up WF or any US company unless you're going to beat up the things made in Switzerland... and I'm not just referring to fake Swiss tea kettles. China is the future. We'll just have to grin and bear it.
Or vote with our wallets.

Actually, I was amazed to find in France the other day, that some garlic on sale there was also grown in China.

What was more horrifying was that the French people let this happen.

I'm doing some work for a U.S. company at the moment who are moving production from China back to the U.S.
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Old 03.11.2011, 16:41
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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I'm doing some work for a U.S. company at the moment who are moving production from China back to the U.S.
That scares me... it says to me that it's cheaper to produce in the US than in China, which means either the US is really reaching rock bottom, or China is becoming too expensive, or both.
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Old 03.11.2011, 16:43
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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That scares me... it says to me that it's cheaper to produce in the US than in China, which means either the US is really reaching rock bottom, or China is becoming too expensive, or both.
It has to do with the transportation cost and import duties.
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  #36  
Old 03.11.2011, 16:45
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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That scares me... it says to me that it's cheaper to produce in the US than in China, which means either the US is really reaching rock bottom, or China is becoming too expensive, or both.
I think it depends on the type of technology and volumes.

China has high set-up costs but for very high volume products like the i-Phone, this isn't a problem.
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Old 03.11.2011, 16:47
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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Or vote with our wallets.

Actually, I was amazed to find in France the other day, that some garlic on sale there was also grown in China.

What was more horrifying was that the French people let this happen.

I'm doing some work for a U.S. company at the moment who are moving production from China back to the U.S.
Well, I just hope that China's food quality standards are much better than their electronics standards. We had disaster after disaster with them handling the production of our robotic products line - everything from labor rights issues to deliberate substituting with materials that were deemed unsafe in the US (like lead paint!). In the end, we just had to admit that using these factories to save money ended up costing us almost 10 times more in the end. And no, they weren't some back alley factories.....one of them was Foxconn which makes the iPhone.
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Old 03.11.2011, 17:47
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

try the market in Lörrach on Saturdays
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Old 03.11.2011, 17:59
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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Well, I just hope that China's food quality standards are much better than their electronics standards. We had disaster after disaster with them handling the production of our robotic products line - everything from labor rights issues to deliberate substituting with materials that were deemed unsafe in the US (like lead paint!). In the end, we just had to admit that using these factories to save money ended up costing us almost 10 times more in the end. And no, they weren't some back alley factories.....one of them was Foxconn which makes the iPhone.
Melamine. Need I say more?

China is still largely unregulated and where they are regulated they are taking short cuts that overlooked and easily bribed around. Corruption is rampant, and a lot of western food suppliers are using China as a production area. A LOT. I won't name names, however they're easily discoverable.
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Old 03.11.2011, 18:22
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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Melamine. Need I say more?

China is still largely unregulated and where they are regulated they are taking short cuts that overlooked and easily bribed around. Corruption is rampant, and a lot of western food suppliers are using China as a production area. A LOT. I won't name names, however they're easily discoverable.
Why can't you name them?

Wholefoods even puts it on their website
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