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Old 03.11.2011, 17:41
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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Deluded or a poor attempt at humour.
Nope, on that I'm actually being rather serious. I'm a subject and lived in London for a number of years and found it interesting that the UK became so much like the US that it really is the 51st state; that and how the Brits always seem to be the most vocal about criticizing the US, especially when in need of a boost for a weak argument, e.g. slagging off on WF organic groceries rather than your own equivalent purveyors.

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The thread started with someone asking whether there was anything here like wholefoods that sold Organic produce. I replied that most places in Switzerland did.

How exactly is that anti-U.S.?
No, you replied with some highly critical stuff about how you'd rather have your produce local rather than shipped in from CA and, when that didn't seem to stir enough bees, you then carried on to claim how 'most' of the organic produce at WF is from China which, not only rather hyperbolic, for someone who hasn't answered my question asking if you've ever actually set foot inside of a WF store, was predictably troll-ish.

The OP asked specifically if there was something like WF in CH to which the answer is a rather certain "no". The question wasn't about if the produce is from China or if they are more or less greedy than some guy with a garden plot down the road from you. Sure, you can get organic/bio stuff here just like you can in many other countries and, just like all those other places you are no more likely to be sure of the origin and 'bio-ness' than anywhere else unless you grow it yourself.
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  #42  
Old 03.11.2011, 20:40
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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Melamine. Need I say more?

China is still largely unregulated and where they are regulated they are taking short cuts that overlooked and easily bribed around. Corruption is rampant, and a lot of western food suppliers are using China as a production area. A LOT. I won't name names, however they're easily discoverable.
And when the exported products get checked, it's on a random basis. Not every single item is checked for quality control when leaving the country because it's just not possible to do. And the managers we entrusted at the factories were taking bribes to use cheaper and dangerous materials and then placing our company name on the product.

Our product design was sold out the back door of Foxconn and a dangerous fake was made and sold back to the US with our company name on it as well. The court battle that ensued almnost drove us to bankruptcy.

Anyways, don't mean to get off topic but organic foods here really do tend to cost more than in Calfornia - where it seems everything grows. And no matter the source, there just has to be stricter regulations and everything should be checked, tested, whatever before we put it in our mouths.
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  #43  
Old 03.11.2011, 20:59
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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Anyways, don't mean to get off topic but organic foods here really do tend to cost more than in Calfornia - where it seems everything grows. And no matter the source, there just has to be stricter regulations and everything should be checked, tested, whatever before we put it in our mouths.
Not everything, but a lot, yes. As a frequent and rather discerning shopper at WF, I think the only thing I ever came across in my own selection at WF that was labelled as being from China was some frozen edamame. This was a few years ago and I took the bag to the manager nearby and asked if they had any non-chinese edamame since I consciously try to not buy anything, especially food, from the ecological tragedy that is china. He listened to me, took my business card and a few weeks later emailed me that they had, indeed, found a US source for the frozen edamame and included a voucher to get my first bag of the US edamame product free of charge.

I really do believe that WF and TJs tries harder than the average grocery to not only get local produce (in MA, they always had local apples, carrots, etc and sometimes even had the farmers in the shop to answer questions) but to also respond to consumer concerns regarding the source of their products. Whenever I bought fish, I would ask the fishmonger about the origin of the fish and if it was raised or caught since I do think most wild seafood is tainted (e.g. Japan after the gov worked so hard to cover up the 3 reactors that melted down - tip of the iceberg).

I don't really think that anything is truly 'organic' but I do enjoy corn chips that have only 4 ingredients or bread that is still warm and tastes like I might have baked it myself.

I'm not expecting a grocery to save the world, but it is a wonderful thing to have a grocery where you can go that not only tries diligently to do the right thing, but also treats you like a customer with a wildly varied selection of goods that are designed to part you from your money in exchange for the bliss that is the joy of a ginger spice cookie that is soft, but chewy, spiced but not overly so. Or a free-range turkey that is so flavorful that your guests insist you must have done something special to it other than bake it.
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  #44  
Old 03.11.2011, 21:06
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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So don't beat up WF or any US company unless you're going to beat up the things made in Switzerland...
$


That is a rather ridiculous line of argumentation. So in order to critize a swiss company, you'd have to critize an american company first.

For example, i'm pretty convinced that a) the KAG products in Switzerland are "more" organic and bio than the ones you find in Whole Foods. Yet I'm also convinced b) that there are american companys that have "more" organic and "bio" products than, lets say the Naturaplan products you find at the Coop.

What is the influence of statement a) when it comes to assess the validity of statement b)? Excatly zero!
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Old 03.11.2011, 21:33
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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$


That is a rather ridiculous line of argumentation. So in order to critize a swiss company, you'd have to critize an american company first.

For example, i'm pretty convinced that a) the KAG products in Switzerland are "more" organic and bio than the ones you find in Whole Foods. Yet I'm also convinced b) that there are american companys that have "more" organic and "bio" products than, lets say the Naturaplan products you find at the Coop.

What is the influence of statement a) when it comes to assess the validity of statement b)? Excatly zero!
I think the point she tried to make was that no company, no grocery, not even of the Swiss variety, is any more white as the driven snow than any other. I'm not convinced that anything labelled 'organic' is truly organic since the entire biosphere is contaminated with compounds that few even test for in such limited requirements. Tell me, what do you think of when you think something is 'organic'? Is it a lack of pesticides or is it the idea that some singular farmer is out there with a hoe beating back the weeds that diminish his harvest?

With 7 billion folks on the planet now, the idea that anything is really, truly 'organic' is a fantasy left only for the 1% that so many folks now rally against. Most of the food in both COOP and Migros come from somewhere else as this is a small country largely populated by people, mountains and creatures that graze. A very large percentage of your food comes from somewhere else and even if it's stamped as 'organic', do you really trust that everything in that product was grown without any pesticides or any residual toxins in the soil?

Let's be real...the premium we pay for foods that we think didn't come from a source within 100km of where we live is to assuage our concerns that we live in a very un-organic world, one that we don't know for sure if the food we're paying a premium for is, in fact, free of those things that we hope aren't in them. We can, however, make some choices, e.g. not buying canned tomatoes in PVC lined cans. We pay our money and we take our chances. There are no guarantees in this world...not even in CH where things are sold at 4x the price. It comes from the same source much of the time.
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  #46  
Old 03.11.2011, 22:51
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Re: Whole Foods - somewhere like that here in Switz?

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I think the point she tried to make was that no company, no grocery, not even of the Swiss variety, is any more white as the driven snow than any other. I'm not convinced that anything labelled 'organic' is truly organic since the entire biosphere is contaminated with compounds that few even test for in such limited requirements. Tell me, what do you think of when you think something is 'organic'? Is it a lack of pesticides or is it the idea that some singular farmer is out there with a hoe beating back the weeds that diminish his harvest?

With 7 billion folks on the planet now, the idea that anything is really, truly 'organic' is a fantasy left only for the 1% that so many folks now rally against. Most of the food in both COOP and Migros come from somewhere else as this is a small country largely populated by people, mountains and creatures that graze. A very large percentage of your food comes from somewhere else and even if it's stamped as 'organic', do you really trust that everything in that product was grown without any pesticides or any residual toxins in the soil?

Let's be real...the premium we pay for foods that we think didn't come from a source within 100km of where we live is to assuage our concerns that we live in a very un-organic world, one that we don't know for sure if the food we're paying a premium for is, in fact, free of those things that we hope aren't in them. We can, however, make some choices, e.g. not buying canned tomatoes in PVC lined cans. We pay our money and we take our chances. There are no guarantees in this world...not even in CH where things are sold at 4x the price. It comes from the same source much of the time.

If you don't really believe in organic food, why do you shop at whole food?

In what way is criticizing an American firm criticizing America?

Why is this all off a sudden about Switzerland?

What difference does the practice of a Swiss firm make when you are talking about an American firm (and vice-versa)?
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