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  #81  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:34
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Re: Vegan advice

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You've become quite the militant in one day!

Actually, in Switzerland, if you buy bio milk, it's isn't like this. Come to the dairy farms in my area if you don't believe me. (and I know a lot in the U.K that are lovely places as well).

My post about the OPs boys become carnivores wasn't solely a joke.

People here are going on about a vegan diet being a valid diet. Well, so is a carnivore diet and eskimos have been surviving longer than us on such a diet (and are healthy too).


And, if the daughter wants some re-educating about livestock farming, in Switzerland at least, there are plenty of farms around us where she can see grass fed animals in a pleasant environment.

I have always been militant, just didnt have the balls to show it! No I couldn't voice these opinions, as I was an Omnivore, and that would have been contradicting.

There are farmers in Switzerland who do keep their cows in poor shape, that is why the animal rights authorities do unannounced visits.

Eskimos consume their meat raw, dont they? I think their longevity is attributed to the climate in which them live in, being half frozen most of time, allows your organs to last longer??
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  #82  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:35
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Re: Vegan advice

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MusicChick please stop spreading misinformation...
Someone who just signs up specifically to discuss this topic, vs someone who is part of this community and has been for a while.

I think I know who's word carries more weight.
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  #83  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:36
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Re: Vegan advice

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I don't understand why this thread went from a friendly discussion into a milk and meat lobby battering.

What is the problem with drinking milk? Even if it's other species milk? If it gives people pleasure and helps them keep the calcium intake, why not let people enjoy their warm cup of cow juice? Really, does one need to take immediately the banner "be anti-milk because it's possible to live without it"?

Yes, there are cultures that live without milk (I have to because I am allergic). There are cultures that live without meat. There are cultures that live without beer.

But just because someone else can do it, there is no need to go berserk on those that chose to do it.

The great thing about getting out of the “Neolithic diet” or the “ancestors diet” or whatever, is the fact that us, living comfortably here in Switzerland, get to chose what we want to eat. We also get to find out what diet is actually healthy to each individual. Let people live happily and responsibly with their choices.
I don't care what anyone consumes. I gave up on save the planet utopia long time ago. I just do what I can for my inner peace and for my own health.

My points were purely to counter claims that dairy and meat products are necessary to be healthy. I was merely trying to demonstrate that being dairy and meat free is not crazy like people make it out to be. Although I personally think dairy and meat can be bad for your health. More neutral research not funded by meat or dairy industry seems to back my assertion. Protein from animal source is not best for you.

“The countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis are the ones where people drink the most milk and have the most calcium in their diets. The connection between calcium consumption and bone health is actually very weak, and the connection between dairy consumption and bone health is almost non-existent.”

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Corn flakes are not really unhealthy. There are healthy choices available. There is actually no unhealthy food per se. What defines "unhealthiness" is the quantity intake.
I disagree. I would say quantity and quality
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  #84  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:39
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Re: Vegan advice

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...More neutral research...
I.e. research that backs up your point of view?
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  #85  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:40
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Re: Vegan advice

I don't want to have to close the Thread but it is really a request for advice by someone's whose daughter wants to stick to a Vegan diet. Either it goes back on topic or it has to be closed until the OP requests it be re-opened to allow her to ask more questions.
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  #86  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:40
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Re: Vegan advice

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Someone who just signs up specifically to discuss this topic, vs someone who is part of this community and has been for a while.

I think I know who's word carries more weight.
I like the topic so I decided to give my 2p worth. Sorry I don't do community service nor care if you take or ignore my advice.
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  #87  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:41
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Re: Vegan advice

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I wondered whether the OP was willing to cook yet another set of meals for her boys if they decided only to eat meat.

And what if the husband (assumption here, I know), decided that he only wanted to eat fish and seaweed?

Where will the OP draw the line?
Ahem, by "boys" I meant my son and MG's SIL

And I remember days when I cooked three different things for four people, that was too much even for me and I cut it down to maximum two.
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  #88  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:42
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Re: Vegan advice

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“The countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis are the ones where people drink the most milk and have the most calcium in their diets. The connection between calcium consumption and bone health is actually very weak, and the connection between dairy consumption and bone health is almost non-existent.”

There's no correlation. We all know that. Tell us something that isn't common knowledge.
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Old 07.11.2011, 16:43
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Re: Vegan advice

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Well I wasn't being entirely serious, as you might have inferred from the "seriously" starting the next sentence.

But the point was that it will be very difficult, especially here in Switzerland, to obtain sufficient nutrition from a vegan diet that also excludes soy, nuts, capsicums and pulses.

Thanks for the groan, BTW. Note that you're the one who seems to be proselytising here, not me.


Only because of the extra work involved. Most carnivores would be happy to do so in principle, and the idea that we're somehow ignorant of what's involved in meat production just doesn't ring true at all, especially not in this day and age.
I beg to differ, its not because of the hard work, many, many people do not have the guts to kill an animal, but they will buy it, because its flesh has been deskinned and cut into bite sizes. Have you ever watch an animal die from a gun shot? That would be in person, and not on Youtube.

And what is so wrong with proselytising? Isnt that one of the roles of a forum?

the OP's daughter eats some pulses and I am sure with time, she will learn to enjoy beans. But what I dont get is the importance of Peppers, how would that destroy her diet( life)?

The OP asks for advice on Vegan recipes, ect. Not members asking her if her 16year old wants to kill herself, that was most inconsiderate to a person who is trying to help and support her daughter.
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  #90  
Old 07.11.2011, 16:43
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Re: Vegan advice

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I don't want to have to close the Thread but it is really a request for advice by someone's whose daughter wants to stick to a Vegan diet. Either it goes back on topic or it has to be closed until the OP requests it be re-opened to allow her to ask more questions.
I'm with you on this, and shall withdraw until I have something more to add to help MGD.
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Old 07.11.2011, 16:44
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Re: Vegan advice

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I don't want to have to close the Thread but it is really a request for advice by someone's whose daughter wants to stick to a Vegan diet. Either it goes back on topic or it has to be closed until the OP requests it be re-opened to allow her to ask more questions.
Sorry if I opened a can of worms here.... but I do appreciate all the information and the different opinions I get.
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Old 07.11.2011, 16:45
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Re: Vegan advice

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Ahem, by "boys" I meant my son and MG's SIL

And I remember days when I cooked three different things for four people, that was too much even for me and I cut it down to maximum two.
I grew up in the household of often having two warm meals to choose from, one from last night, one fresh. Could be easier for logistics and the pickier eaters, if one of them is always vegan, since there are vegan dishes that people eat without even knowing it's vegan..(curries are fun, tapas, etc.)

Another thing is, you can have a thick vegan soup for your vegan as a meal, and for the rest as the starter. Soups are really cool for starting to cook your own vegan food, since you can't really mess it up, learn how to juggle spices, and how fast/slow veggies cook before they overcook (handy for stews).

Edit - Just saw this thead being closed, ok, let's vacation it a tiny bit and give it another try a little laters.
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  #93  
Old 07.11.2011, 19:52
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Re: Vegan advice

Oh wow!!! This thread has gone loopy!

Glad to hear she does some cooking anyway, and that you do some cooking and baking together, and that she eats chickpeas (the best pulse IMHO ).

I was going to suggest that maybe she builds up a little repertoire of dishes that happen to be vegan but everyone else can eat (and enjoy) too.

Savory things like a mushroom risotto, or a chickpea and pumpkin curry, or a 'sheperd's pie' with lentil and veg filling and sweet potato mash topping, etc. And sweet things like some vegan muffins or vegan brownies, or a carrot cake (use oil for moisture).

Then perhaps she can cook one family meal per weekend? (No cooking for you and everyone eats exactly the same thing at the same time)
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Old 07.11.2011, 20:07
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Re: Vegan advice

I was a vegetarian for around ten years and a vegan for a couple of those. Worst decision I ever made. I did it in an informed way but still ended up terribly anemic and B12 deficient.

People often go 'like for like' when comparing things such as calcium, iron and protein in foods. Our bodies absorb these nutrients in different ways. Heme vs non-heme iron is one example. If you take 10 grams of egg protein, for instance, it is not equivalent to 10 grams of soy protein.

Our bodies don't absorb supplements the way they absorb food and that is one reason why vegetarianism was such an epic fail for me. Despite eating a healthy diet and supplementing with mandatory micronutrients such as B12, I was sick all the time and had a plethora of icky symptoms.

That all being said, some people really do seem to thrive on a vegetarian diet such as a lacto-ovo one. Vegan diets - perhaps not so much. The advice I'd give has already been given - see a dietitian for initial meal planning.

I became a vegetarian in my early teens and simply cooked for myself. Or, where it was a vegetarian dish I thought others would like, I cooked for all. Sometimes, my parents found a vegetarian recipe that looked great and so they'd tell me in advance not to cook for myself that night. I personally think a 16-year-old should occasionally be cooking dinner for the family, regardless of whether she's vegetarian or not.

I still enjoy vegetarian food once in a while. We could all do with eating more veggies and legumes. But I'll never give up meat, eggs and dairy because for me, it means giving up my health.
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Old 07.11.2011, 20:28
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Re: Vegan advice

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Savory things like a mushroom risotto, or a chickpea and pumpkin curry, or a 'sheperd's pie' with lentil and veg filling and sweet potato mash topping, etc. And sweet things like some vegan muffins or vegan brownies, or a carrot cake (use oil for moisture).
Unfortunately, being a vegan, she can only have mushroom risotto if she forages for mushrooms herself (or, as this thread suggests, gets her mum to do it for her).
Mushrooms are commercially grown in horse manure or chicken litter, both bi-products of the animal farming industry.

There are some great vegetable risottos though using things like Romanesco cauliflower.
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Old 07.11.2011, 20:32
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Re: Vegan advice

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Unfortunately, being a vegan, she can only have mushroom risotto if she forages for mushrooms herself (or, as this thread suggests, gets her mum to do it for her).
Mushrooms are commercially grown in horse manure or chicken litter, both bi-products of the animal farming industry.

There are some great vegetable risottos though using things like Romanesco cauliflower.
Oh boy I never expected this to become so complicated..
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Old 07.11.2011, 21:10
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Re: Vegan advice

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Oh boy I never expected this to become so complicated..
And remember ... you may only go foraging for mushrooms after the first 10 days of the month. The mushrooms are protected during those first 10 days, for some reason. And every edible type has a poisonous counterpart lookalike!
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Old 07.11.2011, 21:34
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Re: Vegan advice

You are now live at the MacGregor's dinner table. They are having Irish Stew, no meat for the vegetarian.

Mom: How about I'll make this nice vegetable soup your grandma used to make?

MG's SIL looks indifferent and doesn't reply.

Son: Oh really, you don't have to.


So much for vegetable soup
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Old 07.11.2011, 21:38
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Re: Vegan advice

We ate vegan tonight.

Celeriac soup as we had a lot of them from the MIL's allotment.

You can add that to your daughter's list!
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Old 07.11.2011, 21:40
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Re: Vegan advice

My niece is vegan and although it makes cooking a little more complicated it means everyone else gets nice sides to enjoy with their meal with meat.
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