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Old 14.11.2011, 16:21
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Re: Vegan advice

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Yes, thank you so much for quoting the bible and "defending" your position with "intelligent design". Haven't had much of a chuckle from this thread so far but that did it for me.
Have to admitt, I chuckeled there too - despite the fact I just tried to string a rational scientific argument together. Simplicity can be so beautiful sometimes
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Old 14.11.2011, 16:32
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Re: Vegan advice

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That is one ugly mofo. No wonder he could not pull any girls. What he needs is an emmo makeover and all women would flock to him lol
Well, you start to get it. This picture shows the stadium we were in when we just started to eat meat. Now look at us today!

And for the irony resistant: Tom made a comment that evolution is always a difficult topic on EF - we had some really thick bible toting intelligent design people in a thread before. So no, I don't believe in it, I am just having fun.

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There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
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Old 14.11.2011, 16:39
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Re: Vegan advice

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How can the oldest civilization IN India which is carbon dated for thousands of years before ACDC & BC, documented dawn of man etc.. survive? How did they survive for hundreds of decades without meat? The oldest language in the world Sanskirt was handed down thousands upon thousands of years by people who were more than Vegan... You can sit here and type such ignorance? You need to brush up on your history my friend, your ignorance is blinding you, I at least know generations have lived and evolved on a meat free diet thanks to historical evidence.
Erm, what?

The Rigveda mentions sacrifices of cows. The Yajurveda talks of Ashvameda (Horse sacrifices). There is also some mention in the Sutras that states what can and cannot be eaten- chickens, carnivorous animals and pigs cannot. Anything else, fair game. And in fact the Apastamba Sutra tells us to provide meat as an offering during the Shradda (the rituals for one's ancestors).

In fact we know, historically that Hinduism grew in an omnivorous culture- In the Mahabharatha there's mention of Indra eating meat. There's mention after mention of Brahmins feasting on flesh and depiction after depiction of hunting. I can go through books at home and pull out examples if you'd like. This is derailing the subject at hand, but really- sanitising a religion to attempt to prove a point is ridiculous.

This is besides the point which is, vegetarianism, veganism, or outright carnivorism (did I just create a word?) are choices, and valid life choices. There is no doubt that a balanced approach to anything is probably best from a health perspective, but then these concerns are the concerns of a wealthy society. The majority of the world is grateful they have a meal to eat, and not filled with doubt about the source of that meal.

We have the luxury to make ethical choices: but what constitutes an ethical choice varies from person to person. For me, as a lifelong vegetarian who has struggled with protein deficiencies, has B12 deficiencies and iron deficiencies- my ethical choice would be to raise any child I have to have a balanced approach to food, including small amounts of at least seafood, if not all meat. YMMV, and that's your prerogative.
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  #164  
Old 14.11.2011, 16:50
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Re: Vegan advice

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There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
Holy cow! You might have just turned an evolutionary biologst into a believing christian!!!
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Old 14.11.2011, 17:12
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Re: Vegan advice

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Well, you start to get it. This picture shows the stadium we were in when we just started to eat meat. Now look at us today!
Still ugly ain't we? Yeah yeah whatevah

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whose emission was like that of horses.
Green house gases? Carbon tax his ass!
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Old 14.11.2011, 17:23
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Re: Vegan advice

I'll just leave this here: Open to discussions and opinions.

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  #167  
Old 14.11.2011, 17:25
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Re: Vegan advice

Thanks, guys, for highly organized and neat debate we are having here. Only a few necessary merges.

And everyone is pretty respectful, very nice..

Well, since the religion has been mentioned..When you think about us being our brothers keepers, sort of speak - I was always thinking why it is the teen in the ultra moralistic phase that all of the sudden seem to care more for the animals, so acutely. I always thought it's the faith in human kind they have, people being able to take care of themselves, so they feel (or, I did) for animals since they are the weakest links, aren't they, in this whole ethical issue.

But. Isn't it the fact that teens happen to be self centred in this period, too, and worry about their own ethics, ego nd self presentation more than anything else..To the point of extremism, pushing all sorts of boundaries to be better than the others. I had a problem with some (I am not saying anyone here is at all) freedom fighters and animal rights defenders that I have met, who basically put their own ethics on a pedestal, no matter what it costs..Say, if majority of meat eaters have a ton of leather as a waste product from animal slaughter, wouldn't it be more ecological to actually use up the waste product? Recycle old wool sweaters rather then pitch them and buy plastic ones, etc.

I just know that there are tribes who survive these days a hair away from death caused by malnutrition because they have those few thin cows in the village they worship and love and take care of. Who are we to say, that they have no right to them morally..I think the prescription that extreme lifestyle often gives, a universal program, just isn't versatile enough. Not universal. That our rights are stepped on, quite often, people here and everywhere, and I would rather be my brothers keeper than my animals keeper, though I admit, it sounds ugly. Still, more humanitarian, than extreme diet follower, me thinks.

We all have limited time and resources, we always have to pick our choices.

Well, this is just a personal opinion of somebody who went through this..trying to be better with disclaimers, but cut me a slack, heh.
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  #168  
Old 14.11.2011, 17:37
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Re: Vegan advice

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I'll just leave this here: Open to discussions and opinions.

Which is why I say that I am a vegetarian
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Old 14.11.2011, 17:43
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Re: Vegan advice

Another thing is, when one visits friends for dinner, you can deal with steaks being served and other meat/dairy to the guests while you happily chow down on your vegan soup, or whatever.

But living at home and constantly sharing dinner table, every night, with meat eaters, being exposed to the smells etc., hearing the meat sizzle on the pan, gets harder. Just a warning, that there might be some reaction later on. I became vegan when I was almost out of home, so it was easy, all vegan friends I know either cooked vegan food for others, or had their own kitchens, etc. Family dinner times could become a tiny bit difficult with teens who are on their ethic mission.
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Old 14.11.2011, 18:40
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Re: Vegan advice

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There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
OMG how do I get that picture out of my head again.
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Old 14.11.2011, 21:26
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Re: Vegan advice

Chemmie I went through that image list again and as far as dietary side of veganism is concerned it is not that difficult. Although completely avoiding general usage products with hidden animal content can be tough sometimes. You can do your best and it's better than not doing anything if you are inclined to being a vegan.

Just a FYI for interested people-Wrigley Chewing gums are animal free.

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We have the luxury to make ethical choices: but what constitutes an ethical choice varies from person to person. For me, as a lifelong vegetarian who has struggled with protein deficiencies, has B12 deficiencies and iron deficiencies- my ethical choice would be to raise any child I have to have a balanced approach to food, including small amounts of at least seafood, if not all meat. YMMV, and that's your prerogative.
Inshan I agree with the general sentiment of your post. Regarding your deficiencies I don't know you or see what kind of diet you eat but my general observation has been that Indian/South Asian vegetarian diet is one of the tastiest but also one of the most unhealthiest and unbalanced diet. There is a reason type II diabetes is rampant there. If I remember a South-Asian is 4 times more likely to get type II diabetes.

If you are really eating a properly balanced diet and still deficient then I would say there are other issues involved and might not be directly related to your vegetarian diet. If you believe your veg diet is squarely to blame then why don't you ditch it and eat non veg food?

Ok this is my dinner from tonight. There is a pile of dark green leaves from three different vegetables at the bottom. Washed it all down with mix of fruits. It was really yummy!


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Old 14.11.2011, 21:41
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Re: Vegan advice

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Inshan I agree with the general sentiment of your post. Regarding your deficiencies I don't know you or see what kind of diet you eat but my general observation has been that Indian/Sout Asian vegetarian diet is one of the tastiest but also one of the most unhealthiest and unbalanced diet. There is a reason type II diabetes is rampant there. If I remember a South-Asian is 4 times more likely to get type II diabetes.

If you are really eating a properly balanced diet and still deficient then I would say there are other issues involved and might not be directly related to your vegetarian diet. If you believe your veg diet is squarely to blame then why don't you ditch it eat non veg food?
Because, in brief, I haven't eaten it for 31 years. Its a question of diet, practice, and comfort. Perhaps even religion though for the most part I'm a completely apathetic Hindu.

In any case, I see nothing wrong in eating meat, or fish. However I'm simply not comfortable with eating it myself. I wish I was! I'd be healthier I think.
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Old 14.11.2011, 21:51
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Thanks, guys, for highly organized and neat debate we are having here. Only a few necessary merges.

And everyone is pretty respectful, very nice..

Well, since the religion has been mentioned..When you think about us being our brothers keepers, sort of speak - I was always thinking why it is the teen in the ultra moralistic phase that all of the sudden seem to care more for the animals, so acutely. I always thought it's the faith in human kind they have, people being able to take care of themselves, so they feel (or, I did) for animals since they are the weakest links, aren't they, in this whole ethical issue.

But. Isn't it the fact that teens happen to be self centred in this period, too, and worry about their own ethics, ego nd self presentation more than anything else..To the point of extremism, pushing all sorts of boundaries to be better than the others. I had a problem with some (I am not saying anyone here is at all) freedom fighters and animal rights defenders that I have met, who basically put their own ethics on a pedestal, no matter what it costs..Say, if majority of meat eaters have a ton of leather as a waste product from animal slaughter, wouldn't it be more ecological to actually use up the waste product? Recycle old wool sweaters rather then pitch them and buy plastic ones, etc.

I just know that there are tribes who survive these days a hair away from death caused by malnutrition because they have those few thin cows in the village they worship and love and take care of. Who are we to say, that they have no right to them morally..I think the prescription that extreme lifestyle often gives, a universal program, just isn't versatile enough. Not universal. That our rights are stepped on, quite often, people here and everywhere, and I would rather be my brothers keeper than my animals keeper, though I admit, it sounds ugly. Still, more humanitarian, than extreme diet follower, me thinks.

We all have limited time and resources, we always have to pick our choices.

Well, this is just a personal opinion of somebody who went through this..trying to be better with disclaimers, but cut me a slack, heh.
I think there is no absolute right or wrong in life. It is all POVs only. It is easy to judge people and I have been guilty of that and will probably always continue to be judgemental on some level. The sight of human chopping a helpless animal to bits drives me crazy and I can't help it. I don't do anything physically to stop them but I detest the person for doing so.

Some other person might act on it physically and fire bomb the butcher and will be termed as an extremist. In the eyes of the animal rights activist the people who butcher animals are committing the extreme and violent act.

Which ever way you look at it humans are extremely flawed creatures.

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Because, in brief, I haven't eaten it for 31 years. Its a question of diet, practice, and comfort. Perhaps even religion though for the most part I'm a completely apathetic Hindu.

In any case, I see nothing wrong in eating meat, or fish. However I'm simply not comfortable with eating it myself. I wish I was! I'd be healthier I think.
Chicken! There are many non veg peopel who are B12 deficient too. I think you have absorption issues which will most likely continue on a non veg diet. Be our guinea pig and go get a burger or better still work on your veg diet. You have no reason to be protein deficient my friend.

Last edited by MusicChick; 14.11.2011 at 22:06. Reason: merging consecutive posts
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Old 14.11.2011, 22:04
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Re: Vegan advice

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I think there is no absolute right or wrong in life. It is all POVs only. It is easy to judge people and I have been guilty of that and will probably always continue to be judgemental on some level. The sight of human chopping a helpless animal to bits drives me crazy and I can't help it. I don't do anything physically to stop them but I detest the person for doing so.

Some other person might act on it physically and fire bomb the butcher and will be termed as an extremist. In the eyes of the animal rights activist the people who butcher animals are committing the extreme and violent act.

Which ever way you look at it humans are extremely flawed creatures.
That makes us perfect, though. The realization it's the imperfections. And people opting for different lifestyles with different values, and living and letting live (pretty horrid literally, since being a carnivor is actually not letting live, I know) is one of the principle of cohabitation.

Hate towards violence on animals is a normal thing. We are removed from the pain animals go through, veg people are more aware of it, it's obvious. Being judgmental is one of the perks of exchanging opinion, nothing against it.

I just think about the fact, it's the perks of being in a wealthy, western culture, that allows us (also financially) to afford certain noble values, while the rest of the planet have no means for it...they might be better brothers keepers than any of us.

I kinda see the fact that immense consumerism that makes western society wealthy is allowing us having this ascetic vegan lifestyle, which is the opposite of what enabled it at the first place. So...rejecting it so hard, looks hypocritical.

I am getting hungry for some vegan food, off to rummage through the frigo. My favorite dish was actually a barley mushroom risoto, miso soup wasn't bad, either, leak soup yum. I wasn't too big on dairy replacement made of soy, but man, I would go crazy after Provamel desserts.
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Old 14.11.2011, 22:25
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Re: Vegan advice

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Because, in brief, I haven't eaten it for 31 years. Its a question of diet, practice, and comfort. Perhaps even religion though for the most part I'm a completely apathetic Hindu.

In any case, I see nothing wrong in eating meat, or fish. However I'm simply not comfortable with eating it myself. I wish I was! I'd be healthier I think.
I understand completely. I stopped eating meat because I simply didn't like it, no, hated it. While traveling in central america I was forced to eat chicken again (for health reasons) and it was incredibly difficult. Still can't eat chicken off the bone. It was so unpleasant I couldn't imagine trying to eat meat again. Yes, I have b12 issues, but not only related to diet.

Anyway, as I was catching up on the new york times just now, I came across some vegan recipes that would probably make a teenage boy forget there was no meat at dinner: vegan pie recipes

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/1...ie/?ref=health
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Old 14.11.2011, 22:56
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Re: Vegan advice

GoVeg you certainly take some gorgeous pictures of food!
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Old 15.11.2011, 09:15
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Re: Vegan advice

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You have no reason to be protein deficient my friend.
Agreed. I have no need to be protein deficient or iron deficient. And I'm constantly working on it, and where diet alone isn't helping- the occasional boost from supplements is doing the job. But from a basic nutrition pov; I'm in a much better place in my early 30s than I was in my early 20s- I'm (slowly) learning what works for me!

I'm happy to BE a chicken, but I'd prefer not to eat a chicken
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Old 16.11.2011, 09:33
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Re: Vegan advice

So yesterday we had my mom's famous vegetable soup (does anybody else call it "Frenchman's soup"?) and my son had two Wienerli and a Brotli along with it and it turned out he liked it after I had taken all the Brussel sprouts out of his bowl.
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Old 02.12.2011, 05:57
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Re: Vegan advice

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...I had taken all the Brussel sprouts...
Brussel sprouts killed the thread! Always knew they were evil
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Old 02.12.2011, 10:25
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Re: Vegan advice

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blah blah blah
India blah Sanskirt blah vegetarian diets blah

Are those people In India part of the monkey meat eating group? Expand your mind before you say that meat can increase your brain size. Dont rely on these theories, expand your mind and dont let your judgement blind you. Becareful, your ideals and outlook will stop you in gaining something great in the near future...

Learn about the chewing habits of herbivores, the food processing habits of tigers, and other meat eating creatures (smaller intestine) raw meat is expelled faster versus humans, we tend to keep things in longer as plants need more time to break down etc..

blah blah blah
herbivore jaw:


Omnivore jaw (non-primate):


Carnivore jaw:


Now what was this nonsense you were saying about humans being natural vegetarians???

Our teeth don't look like an herbivore's... nor do they look like a carnivore's.... but they most certainly look like an omnivore's.

And India??? Why are you bringing up India? Do you even understand why vegetarianism exists in India in its religious contexts of Ahimsa? It's got nothing to do with dietary health reasons. Even still. They make up with lacking meat protein sources in their vegetarian dishes, and meat dishes are still widely available.
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