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  #61  
Old 27.03.2012, 00:58
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Re: Mexican food

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With all due respect, I don't think that fast food chains have a mission statement for authentic representation of food and exposure to cultures based on the food.

If one is in search of the finer cuisine of mexico, I'm sure they would not stop by the local Taco Bell. Much like one would not assume to experience Belgian culture by picking up some McDonalds french fries.

Now if I wanted to truly experience the 'finer' cuisine of Mexico's culture I will delve into some of the tasty looking dishes you've listed out.
I in Texas learnt that "Tex-Mex" is NOT "fast-food", at least not necessarily. It is the cuisine of Mexicans in Texas who celebrate Mexican cuisine by adapt it a bit to Texan style.

Taco Bell is not Tex-Mex but Taco-Bell, which is a trademark product line. It is not bad really but of course standardized "chain-food".

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How so?

Fajitas being invented in Texas by Mexicans does not make them Mexican food, nor does chili using human meat by indigenous tribes in Mexico before it was Mexico make beef chili Mexican food!

Also, real chili contains no tomatoes (nor beans), unlike the version mentioned.

Tom
Neither does the point that they did it in Texas make it Texan food
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  #62  
Old 27.03.2012, 02:32
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Re: Mexican food

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"Chilli con Carne" does exist in Mexico. However, it is called "picadillo". It is basically ground meat (of beef or pork) that has been cooked in some sort of sauce, sometimes with tomatoes, sometimes not, sometimes with chile, (we don't call it "chilli", that's the American way of saying it, and by the way, you gringos---chile is not "hot", it is "piquant" or "needlelike", which is a totally different "feel" from the simple, one-dimensional sensation of "heat".), sometimes not.
This isn't really "chili". In fact, most of the time picadillo doesn't have any chiles in it although it is sometimes used as the stuffing for chiles. But I guess it could be a regional thing.

Chiles are the dominant ingredient in "chili".

"Chili" isn't always "hot" either.
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  #63  
Old 27.03.2012, 03:13
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Re: Mexican food

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The reason Mexican food cannot be fast food has to do with the Mexicans and Mexican culture. Mexicans NEVER eat alone. Even if on a lunch break on a construction site, the "alba&iles" (builders) go to the shop on a corner to buy their Coca-Cola and their "tortas" or "lonches" (big sandwiches on a special kind of hearty bread) to sit down together to eat. A lot of Mexicans prefer to eat at restaurants than at home, it is a very common thing. Businesses close between 2-4 p.m., so even after lunch there is always time to relax and enjoy your meal. Some people call this "siesta" time, but hardly anyone sleeps during this time...it is more of a prolonged conversation that spills over after the meal to coffee and general chit-chat.

Food, we Mexicans think, is like all things to be enjoyed. There is always time for work "ma&ana" (tomorrow). And what best way to enjoy it than in good company. You never want to rush good company.

That's why true Mexican food can never be "fast" food.
While that sounds "romantic", it's not what was meant be fast food. And I feel odd to explain it when I think you clearly know what I mean. But anyways...food that can be served on order in a fast period of time.

It's not as if I am singling out fast food as Mexican alone. In fact any kind of food can be fast, if prepared the right way in advance, and made available for quick reheating later.

But just because you have explained it takes for ever in Mexico for people to get back to work, doesn't mean that the food is prepared any slower south of the Rio Grande then north of it.

There are a lot of cultures that have extended lunches, and decisively slow work hours, that doesn't mean that is Mexican specific.
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  #64  
Old 27.03.2012, 03:38
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Re: Mexican food

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"Chilli con Carne" does exist in Mexico. However, it is called "picadillo". It is basically ground meat (of beef or pork) that has been cooked in some sort of sauce, sometimes with tomatoes, sometimes not, sometimes with chile, (we don't call it "chilli", that's the American way of saying it, and by the way, you gringos---chile is not "hot", it is "piquant" or "needlelike", which is a totally different "feel" from the simple, one-dimensional sensation of "heat".), sometimes not.

Picadillo can then be eaten by itself with tortillas, or more usually used to stuff some bigger green chiles, which can then, for a very elaborate and gourmet meal, can then be either be breaded and fried (at which point the dish is now called "chiles rellenos"), or topped with a walnut cream sauce and pomegranate seeds, at which point the dish becomes very elegant and called "chiles en nogada", which is traditionally served at important events like weddings.

Picadillo (or "chilli con carne" as you all falsely call it), is a "poor man's" meal. It is meant to be made with the "spares" of meat, las "sobritas" or that which remains from real meals, and that is why it is very rarely served by itself (like TacoBell would or your Tex Mex place would), but is simply a minor (and *very* minor) step in the preparation of more "real" dishes.

Point is: what you Americans eat at your Tex-Mex place is a very poor, corrupted version of the fascinating cuisine that is Mexico. The next time you travel there, try one of the following:

1. Mole Poblano
2. Pipian
3. Tamales de elote
4. Tamales en hoja de Platano
5. Cochinita Pibil
6. Chiles en Nogada (of course)
7. Caldo de Camaron (this best in a coastal town).
8. Filete de pescado al mojo de ajo
9. Pozole (and if you're brave, its close cousin, el Menudo)
10. Freshly made hot chocolate, thick, medium, or thin variety ("chocolate espeso", "chocolate medio", or "chocolate ligero", respectively)

And well, there are countless others, all more elaborate than the next, and I'm not even getting started on desserts. At any rate, here's a link to the picture of the Chiles en Nogada from above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiles_en_nogada

As for getting a "feel" for what Mexico and Mexican character is really like, short of visiting, these two movies do a great job of capturing the soul of the country, especially via its cuisine:

1. "Gringo Viejo" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098022/

and

2. "Como agua para chocolate" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103994/

With this famous quote coming from movie number 1 above, where the ueber mexican character el Gral. Tomas Arroyo tells the gringo woman visiting south of the border why she will never be Mexican:

"You will tell your children you once ate tortillas....but you will forget their smell."

Mexicans are tied to their cuisine like they are tied to their land, their traditions, and their people. Taco Bell and Tex-Mex is such a bastardization and injustice to what Mexico truly is. Keep it in mind next time you eat there. And go visit the real thing! Your palate will bow to you and thank you.
Tex Mex is not a corrupted form of Mexican food, it's the proper form Of Texas-Mexican food. We are allowed to create food in Texas with the inclusion of the ingredients and the cultures of the area. Or would you prefer we did something Tex French?
Yes Taco Bell is a bastardization. Shame on Taco Bell for creating a menu of food, that people like, and actually selling it to those people. They should be selling bells and not TACOS!!!

I don't think there will be any palate bowing...I have been to Mexico. While I personally like authentic Mexican food, as any good entrepreneur knows in the restaurant business, worldwide, you have less likely a chance of selling what ever is authentic(especially by either trying to force to down people's necks, or worse"educating them"), as opposed to menus designed to appease local tastes.

I love how you constantly repeat how "gringos" will never understand not be what it is like to be Mexican, yet, we have to bow to your cuisine. though we clearly will never get it. Strange maybe?

So we are falsely calling a recipe something you believe is actually not our recipe? You think your people are they only ones to take a dried pepper and make a ground beef concoction? Guess again.

Apparently you are un aware that us, not Americans, not North Americans, not US citizens, but us "gringos" have no actual cooking style, technique, imagination, products, or differentiating cultures of our own. And any kind of cuisine we come up with that slightly resembles yours must be a flat out copy re-named to what we want to call it.

You are wrong. Have a nice day.
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  #65  
Old 27.03.2012, 07:29
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Re: Mexican food

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hahaha--I definitely feel like the ignorant North American now. I had never heard of Chili con carne before I came to Switzerland. I figured it was a specific mixed meal

And only now realized we just call it 'Chili'. I have even taken part (and done fairly well) in quite a few 'Chili Cook-offs' back home. Had no clue the proper name was Chili Con Carne. Definitely never considered it Mexican--perhaps some Mexican flavours and additions though.

and I learned something today.!
chili con carne and what yankees call chili are in no way the same thing.

It like what you might find here or the UK called BBQ and then going to Memphis...worlds apart.
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Old 27.03.2012, 07:33
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Re: Mexican food

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I have a couple Mexican cookbooks and pomegranates are featured in a few recipes. Also, don't they grow there?
They're native to the middle east/Persia, not Mexico. Introduced by the Spanish to Mexico.
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Old 27.03.2012, 08:55
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Re: Mexican food

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Chili is always "con carne".
...except when it's "con queso".

(which is another whole can of worms)
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Old 27.03.2012, 11:55
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Re: Mexican food

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Tex Mex is not a corrupted form of Mexican food, it's the proper form Of Texas-Mexican food. We are allowed to create food in Texas with the inclusion of the ingredients and the cultures of the area. Or would you prefer we did something Tex French?
Yes Taco Bell is a bastardization. Shame on Taco Bell for creating a menu of food, that people like, and actually selling it to those people. They should be selling bells and not TACOS!!!

I don't think there will be any palate bowing...I have been to Mexico. While I personally like authentic Mexican food, as any good entrepreneur knows in the restaurant business, worldwide, you have less likely a chance of selling what ever is authentic(especially by either trying to force to down people's necks, or worse"educating them"), as opposed to menus designed to appease local tastes.

I love how you constantly repeat how "gringos" will never understand not be what it is like to be Mexican, yet, we have to bow to your cuisine. though we clearly will never get it. Strange maybe?

So we are falsely calling a recipe something you believe is actually not our recipe? You think your people are they only ones to take a dried pepper and make a ground beef concoction? Guess again.

Apparently you are un aware that us, not Americans, not North Americans, not US citizens, but us "gringos" have no actual cooking style, technique, imagination, products, or differentiating cultures of our own. And any kind of cuisine we come up with that slightly resembles yours must be a flat out copy re-named to what we want to call it.

You are wrong. Have a nice day.
Oooo!. Touchy, aren't we? A little bit of reading comprehension might be in order, my gringo friend. Get a beer, chillax, and fight with me ma&ana, ok?
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  #69  
Old 27.03.2012, 12:19
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Re: Mexican food

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Oooo!. Touchy, aren't we? A little bit of reading comprehension might be in order, my gringo friend. Get a beer, chillax, and fight with me ma&ana, ok?
I think when you come out and blast people you want to call gringos, and when some one has a response to it, it doesn't mean I am not well read, well traveled, nor well experienced in cooking, it means I don't agree with you because your tone is coming from one of assumption. And I don't like being called Gringo, I certainly don't call you a .........(insert un pleasant American name for a Mexican here)........

And, again, you are wrong.

Yes Chile's a peppers. We have a dish called Chile, that incorporated them into a beef mixture. Chile can also be solely with beans, and there fore vegetarian. It's what happens when you have a culture as diverse as in America that you have all sorts of people experimenting and evolving their food cultures, quite possibly people from our side come up with food creations, that we also name, without first sending couriers across the Mexican countryside, asking if we can name it, what we have thought up. Wether it has anything to do with Spanish, Native "Indian", Chinese, or otherwise.

Maybe what we really need to do is totally remove Spanish from our country, so there won't ever be any mis conceptions about food types. And in the future we can call it "Ground Beef and Beans with added Chiles", but that, and exempting other people's would just be too dull.

Or we can do like the Neapolitan people tried to sue for over the use of the word Pizza. They wanted to make the use of the word Pizza only possible for those that came from from Neapolitan. And if you made a Pizza anywhere say, in San Antonio or in Durango (MX), you could only call it "Flat bread with melted cheese made in the Neapolitan style". But again, that idea is just silliness.

I think I missed the end of that last line...did you say you want to fight me? Or am I just mis reading it? What is ma & ana?
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Old 27.03.2012, 15:36
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Re: Mexican food

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chili con carne and what yankees call chili are in no way the same thing
You'd be surprised.

My basic chile (red or green) uses equal parts meat and chiles if using fresh, or 10:1 if using dried, has no beans, and does not use ground meat (well, if I'm lazy I'll sometimes use the 8mm disk, but generally I cube it by hand, id I could find a disk with 12mm holes I'd be happier to use it).

Now, what mid-westerners refer to as chile is another matter.

Tom
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Old 27.03.2012, 15:54
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Re: Mexican food

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My basic chile (red or green) uses equal parts meat and chiles...
By weight or volume?
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Old 27.03.2012, 16:01
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Re: Mexican food

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By weight or volume?
Weight, with the fresh roasted and peeled, and the weight of the dry measured dry, and not re-hydrated.

Tom
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Old 14.05.2012, 17:59
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Re: Mexican food

New mexican restaurant opened in Zürich:

http://www.elluchador.ch/

No Tex Mex!
The owner grew up in Mexico.

Article in Züritipp (German)
http://www.zueritipp.ch/home/home/ta...tory/19837409/

trpG English
http://therealpickygourmet.com/2012/...trasse-zurich/

ronorp English
http://www.ronorp.net/zurich_en/clas...uchador.247699

Last edited by prof. taratonga; 14.05.2012 at 20:06.
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Old 14.05.2012, 19:37
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Re: Mexican food

I have to say, since I opened this thread, I learned a lot about Mexican food! Thank you so much for allowing me to go to bed less stupid!
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Old 14.05.2012, 20:08
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Re: Mexican food

Gotta say I'm pretty damn excited to try El Luchador. Don't really care if it's 'real' mexican or bastardized chinese-mex, as long as they have tacos like you can get on the west coast of the US ... those soft ones, al pastor, gawd, lengua even, I don't care, so very, very tasty.

Last time I got mexican food in CH it was that chain (in bassersdorf maybe?) that served me a 'burrito' filled with diced pork chops, bell peppers and something like melted emmentaler. Spiced with Knorr. Most bizarre mexican experience ever.

As a former resident of southern arizona, all lines between mexican and US are really, really, blurry anyway..
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Old 14.05.2012, 21:00
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Re: Mexican food

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New mexican restaurant opened in Zürich:

http://www.elluchador.ch/

No Tex Mex!
The owner grew up in Mexico.

Article in Züritipp (German)
http://www.zueritipp.ch/home/home/ta...tory/19837409/

trpG English
http://therealpickygourmet.com/2012/...trasse-zurich/

ronorp English
http://www.ronorp.net/zurich_en/clas...uchador.247699
awesome, I'm glad I decided to do a quick EF browse today. Thanks for finding this! menu's a little light, but if he's authentic it's prolly good!
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Old 20.05.2012, 12:26
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Re: Mexican food

same here, I'm from Tucson, can't wait to try the tacos at El Luchador!
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Gotta say I'm pretty damn excited to try El Luchador. Don't really care if it's 'real' mexican or bastardized chinese-mex, as long as they have tacos like you can get on the west coast of the US ... those soft ones, al pastor, gawd, lengua even, I don't care, so very, very tasty.

Last time I got mexican food in CH it was that chain (in bassersdorf maybe?) that served me a 'burrito' filled with diced pork chops, bell peppers and something like melted emmentaler. Spiced with Knorr. Most bizarre mexican experience ever.

As a former resident of southern arizona, all lines between mexican and US are really, really, blurry anyway..
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Old 20.05.2012, 14:55
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Re: Mexican food

What a great description I found here "bastardized chinese-mex": So far the restaurants I have been here in Switzerland are bastardized chinese-mex, like "El Mexicano" in Bern... I can not understand how the people can eat that!

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Gotta say I'm pretty damn excited to try El Luchador. Don't really care if it's 'real' mexican or bastardized chinese-mex, as long as they have tacos like you can get on the west coast of the US ... those soft ones, al pastor, gawd, lengua even, I don't care, so very, very tasty.

Last time I got mexican food in CH it was that chain (in bassersdorf maybe?) that served me a 'burrito' filled with diced pork chops, bell peppers and something like melted emmentaler. Spiced with Knorr. Most bizarre mexican experience ever.

As a former resident of southern arizona, all lines between mexican and US are really, really, blurry anyway..
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Old 20.05.2012, 16:37
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Re: Mexican food

also former tucsonan reporting in! Hehe. Quite the change to balmy switz eh.

I keep my fridge stocked with mexican sauces from EL Maiz on josephstrasse. Their mexican corn mean makes excellent homemade tamales, corn tortillas, etc, if you have the time, btw.
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Old 20.05.2012, 16:40
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Re: Mexican food

oh, the chinese-mex was a reference to some 'mexican' restaurants in NYC that were (this was maybe 10 years ago) run by chinese... resulting in some very interesting, if not particularly authentic, flavor combos.

I guess I just want tasty, or at least original. The one is Bassersdorf is neither..
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