Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Food and drink  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23.08.2012, 22:56
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
PAREKH has no particular reputation at present
Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

Hi guys,

I am evaluating an offer in the Schaffhausen area.

Being a practicing muslim, one of the concerns i have is the availability of Halal meat - especially chicken. From what i have gathered over this forum, looks like I have two choices:

- Get it from Zurich or Waldshut in Germany
- Be a vegetarian

Was wondering if somebody here gets Halal meat from any of these places. Would it cost more ?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 8,639
Groaned at 312 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 19,828 Times in 6,912 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

If availability of chicken is a factor in your decision process, then it is probably not the right job
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
PAREKH has no particular reputation at present
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

Please ... just don't tell that to my prospective employer

Its just that halal meat is important to me. I understand that it is available in Watshuld (and that across the border is a short train ride) and in Zurich.

I was simply wondering if a weekly trip would be feasible. And since the grocery costs seem sky high - would the halal meat cost me extra ?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:11
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

It depends what you mean by Halal meat. All animals in Switzerland have to be stunned before killing. Many modern Muslims accept that this is OK, as the animal is still alive, although stunned, before ritual killing. Most traditional Muslims to not accept this- so they buy Halal meat from France or Germany, as animals are not stunned beforehand.

According to the Koran, an animal has to be alive at the time of slaughter - there is no mention of stunning at all- so I believe that stunning does not mean the meat is not halal.

Last edited by Odile; 23.08.2012 at 23:25.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
PAREKH has no particular reputation at present
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

I tend to agree with you on the stunning part there and the site does look good. But i guess having it delivered would be a lot costlier.

BTW many people consider kosher meat as good enough. Would i have better chances of finding kosher meat ?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

So sorry about the link - I had bookmarked a good section which explained that modern stunning methods do NOT render meat Haram (forbidden) - but it seems it is no longer available on their site. I tried to copy it from my bookmarks, but have not been able to, sorry.

Edit - managed it:

The Halal Meat Authorities
Many people in the UK are now obsessed with the issue of stunning having been given the impression that it is haram. What has in truth happened is that some within a certain UK halal meat authority have taken a disliking to stunning and as a consequence people have been (mis)informed that it is totally haram. In fact, the meat is still halal - all it means is that businesses can not get that authority's logo on their produce.
If one reads their literature or website carefully one will note that they do not term stunned meat as haram anywhere. What one finds is that they have implemented a "blanket policy" against stunning on the basis that there may be some doubt over whether or not an animal is alive at the time of slaughter. This shows that they agree that if a stunned animal is alive at the time of slaughter it is halal.
We asked the authority, the Halal Monitoring Committee, for their response on this matter and they kindly responded with the following proving that just because an animal is stunned it is not haram:
"HMC is erring the side of caution by adopting a blanket policy to the issue of stunning and not certifying it. HMC has never claimed that all animals die due to stunning or that stunning the animal renders the animal Haram automatically."
The Arguments
Some of the reasoning used by voices against stunning is based around the following ayat of the Quran:
"Forbidden to you (for food) are dead animal, blood, the flesh of swine, and that over which has been invoked other than the name of Allah, that which has been killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a headlong fall or by being gored to death, that which has been partly eaten by a wild animal, unless you are able to slaughter (in due form), and that which is sacrificed on stone (altars)." (5:3)
The authorities argue that:
1) Research has shown that animals can and do die from stunning. If an animal dies because of stunning it is haram to eat. As we can't be 100% sure that the animal was alive at the time of slaughter we should then avoid all stunned meat.
We are partly in agreement. However, as we work in an abattoir we know from first hand experience that it is impossible for a lamb to die from a low voltage stun. In addition, if we follow the logic that because an animal may "possibly die" before slaughter we should not eat it, then why do we not also apply that logic to the person slaughtering the animal? They "possibly" did not follow the correct procedures for the slaughtering in terms of carrying it out properly and as a result we should consider the meat as haram. In fact the chances of this happening are higher than an animal dying from stunning.
2) The ayah says, "forbidden to you is the blood to consume." The halal authorities state that blood is dangerous if left inside the meat. Stunning can cause more blood to stay in the animal if the animal dies before being slaughtered.
Again, this is only applicable to an animal that dies before slaughter. It is not applicable to those that are still alive with hearts pumping when slaughtered meaning the blood runs free from the animal just as it would if it were alive. Furthemore, there is independent research to suggest the bleeding of stunned animals is equal to those on un-stunned.
3) The ayah says, "and an animal killed by a violent blow". This is compared to the act of stunning an animal and therefore invalidates it being halal.
Anyone who works in an abattoir will tell you that when you stun a lamb, there is absolutely no "blow" as this would make it impossible to stun it. The tongs must be carefully placed on the head otherwise they would not stay there.
Fatwa about Stunning
Some of the halal meat authorities have cited fatwa from scholars to support their stance that it is haram. Upon closer inspection however one finds that such fatwa are quoted out of context and not in full.
For example, one fatwa oft cited is that of Muhammad Usman, Darul-Ifta, Jamia Sarul Uloom, Karachi. His fatwa has been used to say that stunning is haram, whereas if one reads the fatwa in full you will see that he in fact does not say it is haram at all but in fact that it is completely halal. A few of his comments include:
"As for the ruling regarding the meat of an animal slaughtered in this way [meaning stunned], if the animal was definitely alive at the time of slaughter, and was slaughtered correctly, it would be considered Halal."
"It is not correct to check some animals and deduce from this that the rest were also alive. In such a situation the meat of those animals about which it is known with certainty or beyond reasonable doubt that they were alive at the time of slaughter, and they were correctly slaughtered , will be considered Halal. And the meat of those animals about which it is known (or there is a strong possibility) that they were dead at the time of slaughter, or those animals about which it is not possible to ascertain if they were dead or alive at the time of slaughter, will not be considered Halal, and it is not permissible to use such meat."
"The jurists have mentioned many signs that can be taken as proof of an animal being alive at the time of slaughter, for example if the animal bleeds at the time of slaughter like a living animal, or closes its mouth or eyes, or pulls together its legs, or shows any kind of movement, etc. Therefore, if the fact that the animal was alive can be established in any way, it will be permissible to slaughter it, and its meat will be considered Halal. The observation of movement in the animal, or establishing the fact that a pulse exists is sufficient to prove an animal alive."
For more legal opinions from scholars please read Fatwa on Stunning Animals.
Conclusion
As mentioned above, in an ideal world stunning would not be used. However the act of stunning according to the principles of fiqh (jurisprudence) are not seen as rendering any meat haram as long as the animal is treated well, alive at the time of slaughter and all other necessary actions and conditions are carried out properly. This is the position adopted by the majority of scholars including the late Zaki Badawi and one adopted by the Halal Food Authority.
As a result all our meat is 100% halal - this is indisputable for the simple reason that we know that every animal slaughtered is alive at the time of slaughter.
In addition to being halal our meat has the extra benefits that it is tayyib - it has been ethically treated, free of injected hormones and alien bodies, grazed on organic grass and slaughtered by someone who takes the act seriously and conducts it according to the shariah.
Allah knows best.



Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:36
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
PAREKH has no particular reputation at present
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

I did find stuff there about stunning not rendering the meat haram.

http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/ar...a-stunning.php

And you have been helpful .

Infact i was looking for the option to thank you on the post but since i am a "newbie" ... i'll just type it out ... Thanks man.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PAREKH for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

Woman No need to apologize - you are welcome. Salam.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:41
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
PAREKH has no particular reputation at present
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

Quote:
Woman
My bad & my turn to say sorry.

Thanks woman.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PAREKH for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 24.08.2012, 02:30
Kash_Z's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 455
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 594 Times in 195 Posts
Kash_Z has a reputation beyond reputeKash_Z has a reputation beyond reputeKash_Z has a reputation beyond reputeKash_Z has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

Dude, four weeks ago when I visited Schaffhausen for my project (http://halal-helvetica.ch) I didn't find any halal-butcher at all, and the locals I met confirmed that there is no halal butcher located in Schaffhausen.

One option other than Zurich and Waldeshut is to go down to Winterthur (check the site for the exact location) though that isn't so close either.

Since you are such a short distance away from Germany why not just head north of the border and stock up there - although there are import limits on what you can bring back.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 24.08.2012, 03:17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
condor has no particular reputation at present
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

There is a turkish store, with halal meat for reasonable prices.
5 min from Hardbruke train station, it works untill 20:30 (if you have Gleis7 you can go there after 7 for free))

Konya GmbH

Hohlstrasse 271
8004 Zürich, Schweiz

044 492 15 32

47.383078,8.513497 on google maps
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24.08.2012, 06:55
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
PAREKH has no particular reputation at present
Re: Halal Meat around Schaffhausen

Sounds good. Thanks a lot guys.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
halal meat, schaffhausen




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Halal meat in Zug ? Amit_Purohit Food and drink 1 03.08.2012 18:12
Halal/kosher meat in french speaking part of Switzerland sitifazilah Food and drink 8 21.07.2010 15:12
Indian Grocary & Halal Meat - Zurich Yasmine#1 Food and drink 9 01.09.2008 15:14
Shopping around Schaffhausen Orla Food and drink 7 04.07.2007 10:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0