Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Food and drink  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
Someone else mentioned 'Venti' or perhaps it was in the article. Never heard of it before; what's it supposed to be?
It's pretentiousgittish for 'big'.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post
Because Debenhams aren't reinventing coffee and forcing a global standard. They're simply taking existing drinks and renaming them.

So a "shot of strong coffee" is whatever they sold before as an "espresso". And a "frothy coffee" was a "cappuccino". So nothing has changed, there is no standardisation and I'm not sure how many foreigners would prefer to see "a strong shot of coffee" over "espresso" on the menu.
What you're failing to accept is that many people, English and 'foreign', don't always know what the various pseudo-Italian terms mean, whereas the new, plain-English, menu makes it clear.

See other post - I've no idea what a 'Venti' is, apart from someone suggesting that it's large. Is it strong, weak? Black, white, very white? with something else added? I've no idea, but if it were included on the Debenhams menu I'd know exactly what it was.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:29
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post

Besides, I am of the opinion, like VI, that if people can’t cope with run-of-the-mill coffee orders they really shouldn’t be out in society. And for the record, I have no idea about what other options there are in any coffee house, as my tastes are limited to coffee with various amounts of milk/foam, so am usually able to make a decision without too much difficulty.
Besides, any real coffee house will not ask you what size coffee (mug/cup) you want (see my earlier comment about "standards").
Ugh, people used to be just fine ordering coffee, it was simple, "I'll have a coffee please", "cream and sugar?", "yes please".

Simple.

Then these pretentious coffee shops popped up everywhere, charging four times the price and not offering the option for a coffee anymore, we all had to face boards of fancy names that made no sense to most, where did the coffee go? No doubt I'll get some smart alec telling me the simple answer, if it's so simple, why couldn't they just call it a ****ing coffee?

And the sodding sods going on and on about their coffee, how they're addicted to it, and how they simply can't survive without their order of super pretensionocha with a topping done just so, because how you order your coffee really defines one as a person.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank cyrus for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post
Although one could argue that the Italians don't have the monopoly coffee naming, terms like espresso, cappuccino, latte macchiato all have "standards" which describe a particular mix/make-up of the content
They haven't though. Especially in England, there's no set size and strength for these things, and some of the terms (someone else mentioned the various interpretations of 'latte') have been misused or perverted in some countries.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
There's a reason why 'French soft white cheese' isn't called Feta...
Err, actually, in France, it's quite common to get stuff called 'Feta' which is neither Greek nor made from Sheep's milk. Similar in character, perhaps, but sadly Feta doesn't have any sort of protected meaning or status.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:34
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,232
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
What you're failing to accept is that many people, English and 'foreign', don't always know what the various pseudo-Italian terms mean, whereas the new, plain-English, menu makes it clear.
Not really.

What combination of coffee vs. milk vs. froth is coming in those "simple and clear" definitions?

At least with a capuccino, I know it should be appox. 1:1:1.

Quote:
View Post
Ugh, people used to be just fine ordering coffee, it was simple, "I'll have a coffee please", "cream and sugar?", "yes please".

Simple.
It still is, if that is what you want. Not quite sure where you are going with this, although as I mentioned, I have relatively simple tastes so stay away from all the fancy stuff myself and specifically said "run-of-the-mill" coffee choices, which include to my mind espresso, cappuccino and late macchiato. You'll have also noted that I too don't go in for the whole fancy size naming, but rather say small, medium or big.

I still maintain that there are "standards" that are easy to remember.

As for judging people on their coffee choices - that's you writing, not me.

Quote:
They haven't though. Especially in England, there's no set size and strength for these things, and some of the terms (someone else mentioned the various interpretations of 'latte') have been misused or perverted in some countries.
I couldn't agree more with this. Hence see my earlier comment about checking out where you go for a good coffee.
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:34
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,226
Groaned at 2,458 Times in 1,778 Posts
Thanked 39,330 Times in 18,537 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post
If someone gave me a panini when I asked for a toastie, I'd ask for my money back. Just sayin'
Ummm, panini is plural, panino is the correct word, which, by the way, is Italian for a sandwich of any kind, and NOT a specific type.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
Err, actually, in France, it's quite common to get stuff called 'Feta' which is neither Greek nor made from Sheep's milk. Similar in character, perhaps, but sadly Feta doesn't have any sort of protected meaning or status.
Feta has had PDO status since 2002.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:36
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post
At least with a capuccino, I know it should be appox. 1:1:1.
In a cafe run on Italian principles by people who know what they're doing.

... which rules out the overwhelming majority of cafes in England and Wales.

__________________________________________________ ____

Sorry... missed this:

Quote:
View Post

So, your argument is based on the type of establishment where you get your coffee from?

When I go for my coffee, I tend to try and pick somewhere I think they know what they are doing (easily done by checking what kind of machine they have to make the coffee).

Although I take your point - have you ever ordered a capuccino in France?
If I go to a proper cafe, run by Italians or people who really know their onions, I'm quite happy to ask for a cappucino or whatever, just as I'm happy to order Feta in a Greek restaurant, or eggs over easy in an American diner.

Otherwise, I'd rather the people serving me didn't pretend they were selling something they're not.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:43
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,131
Groaned at 170 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
What you're failing to accept is that many people, English and 'foreign', don't always know what the various pseudo-Italian terms mean, whereas the new, plain-English, menu makes it clear.
If you don't know what an "espresso" is, just ask. Or say "I'd like a small strong coffee please" "ah that's an espresso!" "ok".

Or should all menus change into plain english? No longer "pie" (how would a foreigner know what that is) but instead a "combination of meat and vegetables in a thick sauce surrounded in pastry and cooked in an oven"?

It's an espresso.

You keep mentioning "Venti", but that's irrelevant. That's a Starbucks word, not a type of Italian coffee preparation.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:44
Castro's Avatar
la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,697
Groaned at 126 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 17,135 Times in 5,437 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Three cheers for common sense and plain English.
I was once ejected from the Harrods Food Hall for requesting 5 ounces of their finest cat sh*t coffee. Apparently I should have asked for 'Kopi Luwak' whatever the hell that is?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:44
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 35 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 6,966 Times in 2,251 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Look, I'm all for simplicity. And I'll concede that most people who are drinking a coffee at Debenham's aren't looking for a top-quality coffee-drinking experience. But I think that this dumbing down makes things more confusing, not less confusing.

Simple coffee, with or without milk? Great. But why not call it a 'filter coffee', which is widely understood.

Really really milky coffee? Is this a coffee-based drink, like the French cafe-au-lait? Or is this an espresso-based drink, like a cafe latte? The attempt to dumb it down has actually made it more confusing.

Frothy coffee? Again, is this espresso-based (a cappuccino) or some horrid coffee-based drink thought up by the whizzes at Debenhams?

A shot of strong coffee? Seriously, is there anyone who has a preference for an espresso who doesn't know how to order it by name? If 'filter coffee' is what people mean when they order a 'coffee' in the UK, there's zero risk of someone ordering an espresso and being surprised by its small size.

The 'mug' of 'strong shot of coffee' doesn't help, either. Why not just call it 'small' and 'large'?

Simpler English is great. Ambiguous English masquerading as simple English isn't.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:47
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,490
Groaned at 578 Times in 453 Posts
Thanked 24,676 Times in 9,934 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
Someone else mentioned 'Venti' or perhaps it was in the article. Never heard of it before; what's it supposed to be?
Venti - Italian for twenty. A 20 fluid Oz coffee in the U.S.

This terminology really has no place outside of the U.S. and certainly makes no sense in Switzerland or Milton Keynes for that matter.

I actually agree with Carlos and like the Italian names for coffees and if anything, they should be the international standard.

The problem comes when they get mixed up and confused, for example, in the usage of the word macchiato which can mean a dash of milk in an espresso or a dash of espresso coffee in a milky coffee depending on whether you are are having a caffe macchiato or a latte macchiato.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:51
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,335
Groaned at 173 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post
No longer "pie" (how would a foreigner know what that is) but instead a "combination of meat and vegetables in a thick sauce surrounded in pastry and cooked in an oven"?
I think of "pie" as fruit surrounded by flaky pastry and eaten for dessert...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jobsrobertsharpii for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 31.10.2012, 12:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
I thoroughly approve. If you ask for a 'latte' in an English cafe, you might get a cafe latte or a latte macchiatto or something else completely, depending on who's serving you.

If you ask for an espresso at Leicester station, you'll be informed that "it's a really, really small coffee. Is that alright for you, duck?" And it will taste like squirrel poo.

Plain English is better than misinterpreted, badly pronounced fake Italian.

And while we're at it, they're 'toasties', not 'paninis' [sic]
And if you ask for a latte in Italy, you get a glass of milk.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 31.10.2012, 13:04
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
Feta has had PDO status since 2002.
Try telling that to the French supermarkets then.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 31.10.2012, 13:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post
You keep mentioning "Venti", but that's irrelevant. That's a Starbucks word, not a type of Italian coffee preparation.
It wasn't me that mentioned it first, I was simply pointing it out as an example of non-universal coffee naming which gave no understanding (to me) of the product on offer.

Now that I see the derivation it's even more absurd if it's used in the UK, especially given that it's presumably 20 US fluid ounces, not proper Imperial ones.

As for the rest of it - well, TBH, I don't get why anyone would want to put milk or anything else (except sugar, of course - I like sugar) in a coffee, nor would I ever want coffee that hadn't been 'espressed', so the simplest way of naming things for me would be:

Expresso.
Expresso diluted to a coffee cup size.
Expresso diluted to a tea-cup size.
Double Expresso.

Hot, milky drinks should be listed separately and clearly labelled as milk to avoid confusion. And I guess that's why I have a problem with all these unknown terms - I might end up with something dreadful if I'm not careful.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 31.10.2012, 13:29
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,232
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
Expresso.
Expresso diluted to a coffee cup size.
Expresso diluted to a tea-cup size.
Double Expresso.
What's an expresso?

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 31.10.2012, 13:40
Meeyat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 680
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 874 Times in 349 Posts
Meeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond reputeMeeyat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbing down coffee

When we're at it, can we please standardize wine names? No more fancy-schmancy unpronounceable French naming. "Would you prefer Merlot Chateau de Haupt-Novryignon-Sur-Saine, 2008; or perhaps you'd rather have Medoc avec Pepe-le-Pew-Bourgogne, 1984?"

Gimme a break! Can this be only red or white, please? And "rose", which is reserved for snobbes, btw, would become "diluted red wine"
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 31.10.2012, 13:41
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Dumbing down coffee

Quote:
View Post
What's an expresso?

An espresso served on the Midnight Express to keep the engineer awake.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your Capsules Coffee machine Experience? Aldi or Tschibo? Which makes best coffee?? Buisiki Daily life 13 22.02.2016 22:23
Recycle Coffee Grounds (and Coffee) 21 ways ozibird Other/general 0 14.04.2012 01:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0