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  #81  
Old 09.04.2015, 15:45
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

We need carbs, fats and proteins. All of them.
If you're looking to eliminate entire groups of food from your daily diet, without being necessary (no food allergies, intolerances etc) you're doing a big mistake and you can't last long on this type of diets.
Can't even remember how many people I know who've tried all sorts of diets, lost weight and when returned to "normal" started to bulk weight at a faster pace than ever.
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  #82  
Old 09.04.2015, 16:31
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

Allow me to gently add some gasoline to the fire
Are Paleo Diets more Natural than GMOs? (Scientific American)

Bon appétit!

P.
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  #83  
Old 09.04.2015, 16:54
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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We need carbs, fats and proteins. ..
You really don't need carbs. You can get all you need from fats and proteins. Demonstrated in the 1920s.

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co...-but-meat.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf+html
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  #84  
Old 09.04.2015, 16:54
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

The bit in that I found pertinent to this discussion was:

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As for food ratios, according to a 2000 study entitled “Plant-Animal Subsistence Ratios and Macronutrient Energy Estimations in Worldwide Hunter-Gatherer Diets,” published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the range for carbohydrates is 22 to 40 percent, for protein 19 to 56 percent, and for fat 23 to 58 percent.
That covers the diet food type ratios which plain dwellers ate, and which NotAllThere described, and the forest dwellers of Borneo which I mentioned.
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Old 10.04.2015, 10:04
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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You really don't need carbs. You can get all you need from fats and proteins. Demonstrated in the 1920s.

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co...-but-meat.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf+html
Yes, our body can convert proteins into glucose if we cut off the "carbs" (by this I mean grains, vegs, fruits etc). But why would anyone do this, to begin with? We're not inuits, we don't have to survive on a very limited choice of food. Nature literally offers us everything in this part of the world.
Eating has a cultural and psychological component; excluding dairy products, grains or even vegetables/fruits is against everything I've learned and was used to, and would be an experiment I don't want my body to be subjected to. It's extreme and unnecessary. I don't know what I'd do without fibres for instance, I know my body.
I'm an adherent of small changes rather than of extremes. I limited my intake of refined sugar (yes, I can drink my coffee and tea without sugar, before I thought it wasn't possible), white bread, pasta, sweets, potatoes (and I love potatoes), generally choose foods with a low glycemic index.
I don't follow a strict diet, and I learned to eat some cheese, a yogurt, egg or something that has proteins when I start feeling tired, rather than a cake . (Heh, the attraction of instant gratifications....)
If one follows some principles (basal metabolic rate comes to my mind )and takes care of proportions and quantities, there's room for every group of food in our diet (unless medical conditions).

Last edited by greenmount; 10.04.2015 at 10:18.
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Old 10.04.2015, 10:31
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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If one follows some principles (basal metabolic rate comes to my mind )and takes care of proportions and quantities, there's room for every group of food in our diet (unless medical conditions).
I agree with this; on the first page we said there are no bad foods, there are bad diets. Keep "bad" things in moderation and enjoy everything has been pretty much my motto for a lifetime. HOWEVER, i decided to try eating with 0 carbs during the week just to test this and the results on literally every aspect of my life have improved drastically. Its not only the weight loss, but the overall feeling of well-being, performance in the gym, levels of energy etc. I am not saying this is for everyone, neither am I evangelical about it, just saying that its something that works for me, doesnt seem to work too well for my wife and is definitely not something we will do to our two young boys.
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  #87  
Old 10.04.2015, 10:47
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

There's something about this Paleo diet that I don't understand.

Perhaps one of it's exponents could explain.

If Paleo plain dwellers ate diet of mainly meat and blood and fat and a small amount of carbs, I think we can assume the following:

They ate this diet out of necessity - they needed to survive.
Weight loss was definitely not a concern with this diet. Hunting was difficult and probably dangerous and definitely time consuming. Basically people ate to power their bodies.

What they would not have been doing is following this diet to lose weight- it would have been the opposite.

So, why is the diet now producing the opposite effect in people?
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  #88  
Old 10.04.2015, 11:37
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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There's something about this Paleo diet that I don't understand.
I think people are getting too hung up on semantics. Paleo as a name is a misnomer as in the Paleolithic era hominids were found not only in Eastern Africa, but also in, say, in Europe. Hence, what they ate differed significantly simply due to availability. I PERSONALLY believe that in those times people ate whatever they were able to eat, but this definitely excluded grains. The only consensus seems to be that as soon as we settled (due to farming) circa 10k years ago our ancestors became numerous, shorter and fatter compared to the non-farming population. The way I read this is that grains and a much more sedentary life-style (although still much more active than ours) were the reason for this.
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  #89  
Old 10.04.2015, 11:55
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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So, why is the diet now producing the opposite effect in people?
I think people eat less than before (the diet), even if they don't realise it.
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  #90  
Old 10.04.2015, 13:20
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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I think people eat less than before (the diet), even if they don't realise it.
Might be true in some cases, sure. But not a universal truth. I am tracking my food intake and exercise intensity for the past 18 months and for the 6 months that I am on keto the calories that I consume daily have actually increased by (slightly less than) 10%. Level of physical activity is broadly the same (2 times gym circa 40 min, 2 times running circa 40 min). The only downside I notice is that in the gym due to the lack of carbs my max. effort is lower now compared to before. Volume could be the same, but not my max (only relevant to gym junkies here)
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  #91  
Old 10.04.2015, 14:14
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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Might be true in some cases, sure. But not a universal truth. I am tracking my food intake and exercise intensity for the past 18 months and for the 6 months that I am on keto the calories that I consume daily have actually increased by (slightly less than) 10%. Level of physical activity is broadly the same (2 times gym circa 40 min, 2 times running circa 40 min). The only downside I notice is that in the gym due to the lack of carbs my max. effort is lower now compared to before. Volume could be the same, but not my max (only relevant to gym junkies here)
It seems it works for you so whatever you do and it's good for your health and your state of mind...keep doing it!
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Old 10.04.2015, 14:21
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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The bit in that I found pertinent to this discussion was:

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As for food ratios, according to a 2000 study entitled “Plant-Animal Subsistence Ratios and Macronutrient Energy Estimations in Worldwide Hunter-Gatherer Diets,” published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the range for carbohydrates is 22 to 40 percent, for protein 19 to 56 percent, and for fat 23 to 58 percent.
That covers the diet food type ratios which plain dwellers ate, and which NotAllThere described, and the forest dwellers of Borneo which I mentioned.
I think the big problem is that people are getting 40% of their required calories from carbs, 56% from protein AND 58% from fat.
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  #93  
Old 10.04.2015, 14:37
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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I PERSONALLY believe that in those times people ate whatever they were able to eat, but this definitely excluded grains.
Why? Seriously why do you believe this? Why would humans who eat 'whatever they were able to eat, but this definitely excluded grains' then start domesticating grains? Think about it. The ONLY way people would plant and cultivate grains is if the were already collecting storing and eating them. Why on earth would non-grain eaters suddenly decide to start planting something they do not eat? Do you believe they ate every meat except oxon and ovi-caprids too?
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Old 10.04.2015, 14:51
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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Why? Seriously why do you believe this?
First of all, lets agree that this is all in the intellectual masturbation area as we cant really know :-)
Wheat, which is a grass, originates in the levant (no surprise the area was called the fertile crescent). Hence, Hominids in East Africa didn't really consume grains until it was introduced to them as a domesticated crop much later than the paleolithic era. Moreover, wheat seems to have spread north-east and north-west first and only then south. Hence, these east Africans started consuming grains probably thousands of years later compared to the first settled farmers.
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Old 10.04.2015, 16:30
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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First of all, lets agree that this is all in the intellectual masturbation area as we cant really know :-)
Wheat, which is a grass, originates in the levant (no surprise the area was called the fertile crescent). Hence, Hominids in East Africa didn't really consume grains until it was introduced to them as a domesticated crop much later than the paleolithic era. Moreover, wheat seems to have spread north-east and north-west first and only then south. Hence, these east Africans started consuming grains probably thousands of years later compared to the first settled farmers.
Triticum is not the only grass.

Sorghum is a widespread edible grass for example. http://www.jstor.org/stable/2406774?...n_tab_contents
http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v44...g.2289_F1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorghum_bicolor

Also... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eragrostis_tef
are two other examples of native African grasses that have been domesticated. We probably ate many more varieties of grasses that were not domesticated too. Like you say, we will never know for sure. And the first farmers in the levant were not neolithic before they started farming..... unless you believe that the first farmers were not humans....
(plus Maize in the America's and Rice in the east.... also domesticated because they were already part of the pre-neolithic diet)

Last edited by MsWorWoo; 10.04.2015 at 16:39. Reason: more grass.
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Old 10.04.2015, 16:58
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

Oh, sorry, missed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_millet.
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  #97  
Old 10.04.2015, 18:59
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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The story you linked to was not written by an expert (in the sense that I understand the word).
It was a sample of one person so hardly conclusive.
Modern methods of study control have allowed massive individual studies, and meta-studies to take place which can more easily see the results of various diets and exercise.
Advances in knowledge mean that scientists can understand the human body much better.
If you had read the article and not only the introductory paragraph you would have come to the part where she asked experts from different universities, only to get contradictory information. But whatever..

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Just to add my 2 cents to the debate:

It is important to realise that the body is not just made up for fat and muscle, but that within these two things is a rather large amount of water.

People often assume that the initial weight loss experienced on a low carbohydrate diet (and high protein) diet is due to the body switching fuels and "burning up fat stores" - this is not the case. Two things start happening when you start such a diet: firstly the body uses up it's glycogen stores (the carbohydrates stored) The liver stores approximately 100 g of glycogen and muscle has 400 g of glycogen, so that makes half a kilo in weight. Add to that the fact that with each g of glycogen lost goes approximately 2 g of water. So that makes a fairly quick weight loss of 1.5kg.....

Next you start making ketone bodies from fat (from your body stores, and from fat from the diet) - this increases sodium in your kidneys, and further increases water loss.
In fact loads of scientific studies have shown that the "extra" weight loss people experience with low carb diets compared to mixed diets (i.e., eating a balanced diet, just smaller amounts) can be completely accounted for by loss of body water. Plus glycogen stores and body water will be rapidly restored (they are important after all).

Anyway, to cut a long story short, my point is that if you are doing these sort of diets alter general feelings of "wellness" or due to allergies etc that is one thing (horses for courses and all of that), but these diets for weight loss is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
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We need carbs, fats and proteins. All of them.
If you're looking to eliminate entire groups of food from your daily diet, without being necessary (no food allergies, intolerances etc) you're doing a big mistake and you can't last long on this type of diets.
Can't even remember how many people I know who've tried all sorts of diets, lost weight and when returned to "normal" started to bulk weight at a faster pace than ever.
How many times do I have to tell you that I am not doing it to lose weight?
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  #98  
Old 10.04.2015, 20:53
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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If you had read the article and not only the introductory paragraph you would have come to the part where she asked experts from different universities, only to get contradictory information. But whatever..
Yes, lots said that if you followed such a diet, you would lose weight.

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How many times do I have to tell you that I am not doing it to lose weight?
Then why do you keep quoting articles that state that this diet is a good way of losing weight?
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Old 10.04.2015, 21:24
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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Yes, lots said that if you followed such a diet, you would lose weight.



Then why do you keep quoting articles that state that this diet is a good way of losing weight?
Where did I quote an article?I refered to the one linked by uncle groove only to show you that even scientists from university disagree on what is a healthy diet and now that I did prove you wrong you jump on me and claim I Keep quoting articles about weight loss, when in factI have not quoted a single line in this thread.
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Old 10.04.2015, 22:00
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Re: Paleo - Anyone here doing it?

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Where did I quote an article?I refered to the one linked by uncle groove only to show you that even scientists from university disagree on what is a healthy diet and now that I did prove you wrong you jump on me and claim I Keep quoting articles about weight loss, when in factI have not quoted a single line in this thread.
May be we're at cross-purposes here. Mr. Groove has provided links to more than one article.
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