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Old 19.08.2017, 11:01
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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What is your point?

Some guy who is an alleged anti-Semite supported a bill 17 years ago, so he must also support this bill?

By extension, anyone supporting the bill is an anti-Semite Islamophobe?

The hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil monkeys are sadly and ironically just like the 'liberal' response to Halal animal cruelty.
I think everyone is aware of your racism towards muslims...no need to add more to it.
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Old 19.08.2017, 11:08
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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I think everyone is aware of your racism towards muslims...no need to add more to it.
lol, sad really.

I'm an outspoken supporter of animal rights, and also speak out against any and all wacky ideologies that promote violence and suffering.

But hey, instead of debating the issues, it's easier to call me a racist. Islam isn't a race, BTW.
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  #163  
Old 19.08.2017, 11:10
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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I can't drive but I own a car.
I can't drive but am allowed to
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  #164  
Old 19.08.2017, 11:21
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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I doubt that animal welfare groups (in general) are full of anti-semites...however, as far as I know, the EU regulations allow a derogation from stunning in case of religious slaughter taking place in slaughterhouses. CH is not part of EU, I know, just wanted to point out a different view on this matter.
There are many petitions against these practices coming from the aforementioned groups, but the law is there to stay for ensuring freedom of religion and all that. Perhaps a non-issue to many, very important for some.
Yes, in the end it all comes down to what you prioritize. But do we conceptually actually agree that there are limits to religious freedom?

Regarding the current political motion: I know that the EU has a different point of view. Sadly animal welfare laws in the European Union are overall not as extensive as in Switzerland, slaughter without prior stunning just being one example. However, the political motion does not intend to change the current animal welfare law of Switzerland, which already defines practices that are animal cruelty and therefore illegal. It raises the question why we would allow that the law can be bypassed by import. And again, no mention of any halal or kosher products whatsover. All products that are produced under conditions that are cruel to animals would be affected (e.g. Foie gras, furs, frog legs are specifically mentioned in the motion).
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  #165  
Old 19.08.2017, 11:37
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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Yes, in the end it all comes down to what you prioritize. But do we conceptually actually agree that there are limits to religious freedom?

Regarding the current political motion: I know that the EU has a different point of view. Sadly animal welfare laws in the European Union are overall not as extensive as in Switzerland, slaughter without prior stunning just being one example. However, the political motion does not intend to change the current animal welfare law of Switzerland, which already defines practices that are animal cruelty and therefore illegal. It raises the question why we would allow that the law can be bypassed by import. And again, no mention of any halal or kosher products whatsover. All products that are produced under conditions that are cruel to animals would be affected (e.g. Foie gras, furs, frog legs are specifically mentioned in the motion).
I get your point, really. But, as I said in some previous posts, to me personally this is a very complicated and delicate matter.
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Old 19.08.2017, 11:55
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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I get your point, really. But, as I said in some previous posts, to me personally this is a very complicated and delicate matter.
I can understand that too and I respect that.

I was just irritated that one is labelled as an antisemite and islamophobe (not saying it was you) because one values animal welfare laws.
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Old 19.08.2017, 11:59
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

Fois-gras is not cruel, and frog legs are great!

Tom
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Old 19.08.2017, 12:05
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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I can understand that too and I respect that.

I was just irritated that one is labelled as an antisemite and islamophobe (not saying it was you) because one values animal welfare laws.
Actually I found your posts very articulated and free of that sort of bias, even if I don't necessarily agree with you, but each to their own. I wouldn't pay much attention to some provocations.
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Old 19.08.2017, 12:06
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

Nothing to see here..




Having a steel tube pump food down your throat while confined to a small cage, so that your liver can grow to 10x it's normal size, sounds like fun!
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  #170  
Old 19.08.2017, 12:13
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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Nothing to see here..
Quite literally!

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Having a steel tube pump food down your throat while confined to a small cage
They are not normally confined to small cages.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/t...-is-not-u.html

Tom
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  #171  
Old 19.08.2017, 12:29
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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Quite literally!



They are not normally confined to small cages.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/t...-is-not-u.html

Tom
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  #172  
Old 19.08.2017, 12:46
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

Some great foie gras recipes here
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  #173  
Old 19.08.2017, 13:17
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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I'm an outspoken supporter of animal rights
.
Not everyone can adapt to these things, some consider their religious beliefs more important than these (relatively new) regulations.
People are people. What do you do? Easy answer to me - compromise.
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Old 19.08.2017, 13:33
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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Not everyone can adapt to these things, some consider their religious beliefs more important than these (relatively new) regulations.
People are people. What do you do? Easy answer to me - compromise.
Compromise on cruelty to animals to appease religious zealots? Why even bother with the separation of church and state? Soon we'll let liberal democracy erode and be replaced by sharia law..


wait a minute..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...al-chiefs.html

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Old 19.08.2017, 13:55
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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Compromise on cruelty to animals to appease religious VEGAN zealots?
FTFY.

Tom
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Old 19.08.2017, 13:58
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

indeed. Real click-bait, and absolutely not about anyone adopting Sharia law. Helping people to understand how to create their last will and testament in a way that conforms with their own beliefs, while still adhering to the underlying legal system... well it's difficult to see how anybody who got beyond the headline and read the article could think this is not a good thing.
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  #177  
Old 19.08.2017, 14:01
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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FTFY.

Tom
No, you didn't. What you posted doesn't even make any sense, unless you are trying to justify what you yourself believe to be animal cruelty.

I'm not a vegan, FYI..

or a zealot.

Last edited by pilatus1; 19.08.2017 at 14:56. Reason: tzpo
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  #178  
Old 19.08.2017, 14:04
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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indeed. Real click-bait, and absolutely not about anyone adopting Sharia law. Helping people to understand how to create their last will and testament in a way that conforms with their own beliefs, while still adhering to the underlying legal system... well it's difficult to see how anybody who got beyond the headline and read the article could think this is not a good thing.
Indeed, the article clearly states that the idea is that it's 100% compliant with British law, so I don't see the problem, quite the contrary.

"The guidance, quietly published this month and distributed to solicitors in England and Wales, details how wills should be drafted to fit Islamic traditions while being valid under British law."

Tom
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  #179  
Old 19.08.2017, 14:05
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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indeed. Real click-bait, and absolutely not about anyone adopting Sharia law. Helping people to understand how to create their last will and testament in a way that conforms with their own beliefs, while still adhering to the underlying legal system... well it's difficult to see how anybody who got beyond the headline and read the article could think this is not a good thing.
Oh, I read the article alright - did you?

'Keith Porteous Wood, executive director of the National Secular Society, said: “This guidance marks a further stage in the British legal establishment’s undermining of democratically determined human rights-compliant law in favour of religious law from another era and another culture. British equality law is more comprehensive in scope and remedies than any elsewhere in the world. Instead of protecting it, The Law Society seems determined to sacrifice the progress made in the last 500 years.”
Lady Cox said: “Everyone has freedom to make their own will and everyone has freedom to let those wills reflect their religious beliefs. But to have an organisation such as The Law Society seeming to promote or encourage a policy which is inherently gender discriminatory in a way which will have very serious implications for women and possibly for children is a matter of deep concern.” -
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  #180  
Old 19.08.2017, 14:06
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Re: Halal and Kosher meat, possible import ban

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Compromise on cruelty to animals to appease religious zealots?
Since when are people who eat foie-gras and frogs legs religious zealots?

Tom
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