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Old 17.07.2008, 15:58
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Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

hi everyone!
i know this is probably a strange question but my 2 girls are celiac and in the US drink cows milk from grass fed cows (so no grains in the cows diet - theyre very sensitive!!). we're considering a move to laussanne at the beginning of next year so i was trying to find whether something similar was available in switzerland - we could drive to get it!!
thanks
candice
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Old 17.07.2008, 16:00
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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hi everyone!
i know this is probably a strange question but my 2 girls are celiac and in the US drink cows milk from grass fed cows (so no grains in the cows diet - theyre very sensitive!!). we're considering a move to laussanne at the beginning of next year so i was trying to find whether something similar was available in switzerland - we could drive to get it!!
thanks
candice
Soy Milk is sold here if that will do the trick.
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Old 17.07.2008, 16:05
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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Soy Milk is sold here if that will do the trick.
Where please?
Migros? COOP?
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Old 17.07.2008, 16:08
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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Where please?
Migros? COOP?
Reformhaus also has soy and rice milk. The pharmacy in the Zug Bahnhof sells these too so check your local pharmacy.
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Old 17.07.2008, 16:44
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

thanks - that might work as i know some soy and rice milks are gluten free - now i just have to convince them to drink the stuff!!! if i could find a cows milk it would definitely be easier
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Old 17.07.2008, 16:50
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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Where please?
Migros? COOP?
you can order it online via both
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Old 17.07.2008, 16:51
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

I would recommend checking with a pediatric gastroenterologist. Are you sure that your daughters are really reacting to the grain proteins in the cow milk. It seems unlikely that the proteins would pass directly into the milk.
Are you sure for instance that the children are not lactose intolerant which is well-known to be common in children with celiac disease. The solution then would be to use a lactose free milk or soy milk.
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Old 17.07.2008, 17:01
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

thanks very much for the reply - they dont appear to be lactose intolerant as both can drink cows milk with no problems - the youngest is still breast fed (in addition to a little cows milk) and can't tolerate me eating any gluten at all in my diet, so while we dont know if the gluten goes through cows milk for sure it definitely goes into breast milk so we dont see why not?? not very medical i know!
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Old 17.07.2008, 19:54
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

I think your best bet is to get milk from cows in alpine pastures. There are certainly cows up there that are supposed to eat grass. Not sure if it will be grass only, but I would expect so, as summer grass should be sufficient feed (but am no expert!). Basically, they produce cheese from these cows, which is called Alpkaese and which involves a protected manufacturing procedure (has to come from above 1500m and from pasture fed cows; bergkaese is not the same as it can be produced in high areas at any time, and not just from grass fed cows, see below).

So I would find out from perhaps the organisation of farmers that produce Alpkaese if the milk from these cows is also sold separately. Maybe start here? http://www.schweizeralpkaese.ch/

Bergkäse und Alpkäse wird oft unter demselben Namen verkauft. Alpkäse darf Bergkäse genannt werden - umgekehrt gilt das nicht. Während der Bergkäse auch während des Jahres am Hof erzeugt wird, wird der Alpkäse ausschließlich im Sommer erzeugt, wobei die Kühe fast den ganzen Tag im Freien verbringen und sich von den Alpwiesen ernähren.
See also http://www.chaeschilbi.ch/bergkaese.html
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Old 17.07.2008, 20:04
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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I think your best bet is to get milk from cows in alpine pastures. There are certainly cows up there that are supposed to eat grass. Not sure if it will be grass only, but I would expect so, as summer grass should be sufficient feed (but am no expert!). Basically, they produce cheese from these cows, which is called Alpkaese and which involves a protected manufacturing procedure (has to come from above 1500m and from pasture fed cows; bergkaese is not the same as it can be produced in high areas at any time, and not just from grass fed cows, see below).

So I would find out from perhaps the organisation of farmers that produce Alpkaese if the milk from these cows is also sold separately. Maybe start here? http://www.schweizeralpkaese.ch/

Bergkäse und Alpkäse wird oft unter demselben Namen verkauft. Alpkäse darf Bergkäse genannt werden - umgekehrt gilt das nicht. Während der Bergkäse auch während des Jahres am Hof erzeugt wird, wird der Alpkäse ausschließlich im Sommer erzeugt, wobei die Kühe fast den ganzen Tag im Freien verbringen und sich von den Alpwiesen ernähren.
See also http://www.chaeschilbi.ch/bergkaese.html

Thanks very much for taking the time to post this and to find the links - i will definitely look into it!
Thanks again
Candice
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Old 17.07.2008, 20:50
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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thanks very much for the reply - they dont appear to be lactose intolerant as both can drink cows milk with no problems - the youngest is still breast fed (in addition to a little cows milk) and can't tolerate me eating any gluten at all in my diet, so while we dont know if the gluten goes through cows milk for sure it definitely goes into breast milk so we dont see why not?? not very medical i know!
According to the Swiss Celiac Disease Patients Organisation, milk doesn't contain gluten. And the Swiss retailer Coop has its entire milk palette on the gluten free products list (1, 2)

I fear you have to "get medical" and figure out which substance causes the allergies, or the answers here won't be of much use.

Here is some (German) information about lactose intolerance from the Swiss milk industry. The milk products contain different amounts of lactose.

None: hard cheese, specially treated milk
Traces: half-hard and soft cheese, specially treated yoghurt
Usually tolerated: yoghurt, curdled milk
Borderline: butter, cream
Considerable: cream cheese
Usually problematic: milk, buttermilk, whey
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Old 17.07.2008, 20:57
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

Hi,

Not in Switzerland, but not so far away checkout this organization, that has been around for well at 40 years. I know my brother is a coeliac.

http://www.coeliac.co.uk/

Mark
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Old 17.07.2008, 21:25
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

This might interest you
http://www.nutraingredients.com/news...ailer-launches
Swiss retailer launches gluten-free range

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Old 17.07.2008, 23:57
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

It is also possible to be allergic to casein, a protein in milk like lactose, rather than be allergic to lactose. It is important to know that there are different types of casein, some problematic, others much less. The type of casein in milk depends on the cow race.

To check out if it is casein or lactose intolerance check out a few links in google http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...e+Search&meta=
or check for A1 versus A2 milk. I know they tried to launch low allergenic milk (with the A2 casein protein) in Australia, but do not know if it took off (and whether the research has been confirmed).

Edit: preliminary search indicates it is not that simple, and that A2 is also allergenic. http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/..._151104-1.html. A1 might however be linked to a much higher rate of diabetes in children than A2 and to a high rate of heart disease in adults. http://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/policy-law/...ay-summary.htm

See also http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/news?artic...8-e5210fead0d9 for an overview of the debate. A few quotes from it, partly a bout the link between A1 and heart disease:

Quote:
Scientists from the Czech Republic have found babies fed ordinary cows’ milk (which contains the A1 beta-casein) have much higher levels of antibodies to oxidised LDL than is the case with those who are breastfed. Of relevance here is that breast milk is of the A2 type.
...
The evidence in relation to milk intolerance is largely anecdotal. However, there are undoubtedly a considerable number of people who have previously considered themselves lactose intolerant who are now finding they can tolerate A2 milk. The inference is their intolerance was in fact to A1 beta-casein. And another example from the mail bag: “My sister drinks only A2 milk, she has IBS. She finds it a godsend and calls it ‘her milk’.”

In relation to the age-old story milk stimulates mucus and phlegm, it has recently been shown BCM7 stimulates the production of mucins, which are the proteins that makes mucus thick and sticky.
He goes on to suggest A1 content is the biggest problem in milk, infant formula and ice cream.
Quote:
"These are products from which we believe the release of BCM7 can be high. A1 could be used for products such as cheese, butter and whey powders, for which the A1/A2 status is much less important."

Professor Woodford's graph of A1 casein consumption per person (grams/day, excluding cheese) versus new cariers of type 1 Diabetes per year. Note Switzerland is relatively far down on the list, suggesting that either dairy consumption is lower or many Swiss cows are A2 carriers.

Last edited by muze7; 18.07.2008 at 00:27.
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Old 18.07.2008, 00:18
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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According to the Swiss Celiac Disease Patients Organisation, milk doesn't contain gluten. And the Swiss retailer Coop has its entire milk palette on the gluten free products list (1, 2)

I fear you have to "get medical" and figure out which substance causes the allergies, or the answers here won't be of much use.

Here is some (German) information about lactose intolerance from the Swiss milk industry. The milk products contain different amounts of lactose.

None: hard cheese, specially treated milk
Traces: half-hard and soft cheese, specially treated yoghurt
Usually tolerated: yoghurt, curdled milk
Borderline: butter, cream
Considerable: cream cheese
Usually problematic: milk, buttermilk, whey

thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. i do not wish to offend anyone but both our pediatric gi doctor and ourselves (both doctors) have done a lot of research into this and know that their problem lies with gluten rather than milk (casein/lactose) so we are not at a loss as to what is wrong - they are celiac.

while milk is often considered naturally gluten free in europe (who go by the historical and incorrect WHO levels of safe gluten - the WHO are revising them as they are known to be incorrect!) it is not in the US who have much stricter regulations. it is known for example that the level of 200ppm allowed in europe is sufficient to make many sensitive celiacs sick. in both the UK and US it is possible to buy gluten-free milk and other dairy products which my girls can have fine. if milk did not contain gluten - why would they sell these???
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Old 18.07.2008, 08:23
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

For what it's worth ... Coop is selling something called "mountain milk" - I would assume it comes from cows that live on the (think "Heidi") meadows and munch on grass all day. It's a bit more expensive than regular milk, but not by much.

Else there is soy milk available, rather expensive at Coop and Migros, and significantly cheaper at Aldi across the border in Germany. My kids (3 and 5) are both allergic to dairy, so I know my alternatives quite well.
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Old 18.07.2008, 10:38
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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in both the UK and US it is possible to buy gluten-free milk and other dairy products which my girls can have fine. if milk did not contain gluten - why would they sell these???
If you prefer an American source, here is one.

I have never seen pure milk labeled gluten free, because it always is. Dairy products with this declaration haven't been "de-glutened" but lack cereal-based additives that are common in some of them, like frozen yoghurt.

Lactose intolerance and gluten allergy are not mutually exclusive and might even interact with each other, but if you think that milk is unproblematic depending on the cow's menu, so be it. There's enough information available about both diseases and I don't wish to continue the debate.

And welcome to the forum anyway
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Old 18.07.2008, 15:13
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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I have never seen pure milk labeled gluten free, because it always is. but if you think that milk is unproblematic depending on the cow's menu, so be it.
Unless you are a pediatric GI doctor I respectfully ask you not to diagnose my children on an open forum - that was NOT the question i posted nor the information I sought. You seem to be only reading what you want to read from my posts NOT the FACT that you CAN buy milk titled "GLUTEN-FREE MILK" on the shelves in the UK and US (even if you have not seen it), and that my children CAN and DO drink a lot of it - IF they were lactose intolerant they would NOT be able to do this. We read the medical research literature (not websites) for medical info. and there is no conclusive evidence either way for the levels of gluten in cows milk. I do not wish to go into this further as i was merely looking for some HELP here in finding a grass-fed cows milk.

Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions - I will look into the "Mountain Milk" - if anyone buys it I'd love to know what it says it is
Thanks
Candice
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Old 18.07.2008, 15:26
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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NOT the FACT that you CAN buy milk titled "GLUTEN-FREE MILK" on the shelves in the UK and US
With all due respect, but the mere fact that a milk package is labeled gluten-free is not any implication that those that aren't do actually contain gluten - at the most an indication that they haven't been tested for it. You say so yourself - there's no conclusive evidence so far.
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Old 18.07.2008, 15:34
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Re: Does anyone know of a grass-fed cows milk? (gluten free)

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...

Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions - I will look into the "Mountain Milk" - if anyone buys it I'd love to know what it says it is
Thanks
Candice
Regarding the Coop Bergmilch - I found this (in German):

http://www.codecheck.ch/milchprodukt..._Bergmilch.pro
http://www.coop.ch/promontagna/sortiment-de.htm

It is UHT heated and homogenized milk, made by farmers in the Swiss mountains and also processed there. Comes in 3.9% and 2.7% fat.

I guess Migros has a similar product called Heidi Bergmilch (kitschy, I know). Either one might be worth a try.
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