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  #41  
Old 12.03.2019, 11:41
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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I am lucky that my OH would eat whatever I cook, no questions asked.
I've got one of those two, but we've just had 2 nights away and the first night, he ate a stack of ribs. The second night he had a plateful of calamari and two steaks. Now I'm wondering if his willingness to eat whatever I put in front of him is just laziness on his part.
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  #42  
Old 12.03.2019, 11:50
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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I don't know how big of an effect is going to have on our carbon footprint as most vegan or vegetarian products are indeed heavily processed and packed as much as the other ones.
When I posted the paper link in the first post, it was to the PDF. I just saw it's now routing to a paywall, too bad. But in regard to your point, it's not just in the actual rearing of animals versus growing of plants, where the difference comes. It's also in the amount of land needed for animals versus crops, which is a big effect. Here is some info from the paper -
  • Beef from beef herds (i.e. cattle raised only for beef without any dairy co-production, and the dominant model in the United States) has by far the highest GHG and land use impact.
  • Dairy is much better than beef, but somewhat worse than most other animal products.
  • A global dietary shift to a completely animal-free diet would reduce food-related GHGs by ~49% and farmland by ~76%.
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  #43  
Old 12.03.2019, 11:52
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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Read the thread again (or the first time) and perhaps you'll see why you're getting your knickers in a twist.

You're the only one getting worked up about this. The OP appears quite happy to explain their decision - they weren't forced too. It's all been very civil - up to your last post.
What was uncivil about reassuring the OP that he has no obligation to justify his food choices to anyone?

You're fighting shadows, Tom. Calm down before you give yourself an aneurysm.
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  #44  
Old 12.03.2019, 12:01
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

I think it would go a long way to saving the planet if people only bought what they needed (regardless of whether it's meat, veg, dairy or whatever) and used it all up.

The amount that gets chucked away both by the consumer and the retailer is pretty shocking.

Obviously you can't muck about with use-by dates for fish, chicken, etc., but most stuff will go miles beyond the dates on the packaging.
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  #45  
Old 12.03.2019, 12:05
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

On a related note it is worrying how much water it takes to produce stuff like almond milk etc. It's something like 900 gallons (over 4000 litres) of water for 1 gallon of milk.

Last edited by RufusB; 12.03.2019 at 12:20. Reason: Litres
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  #46  
Old 12.03.2019, 12:11
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

15,000 liters water to produce 1kg of beef

https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...oduction-waste
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Old 12.03.2019, 12:17
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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  • A global dietary shift to a completely animal-free diet would reduce food-related GHGs by ~49% and farmland by ~76%.
But all of that is only a small part of the story. The first chapter should always be what a human's dietary requirements are, the best sources, pros and cons of each source. Classic case is Vitamin A. One small piece of liver provides as much as a carrier bag of spinach and is more easily absorbed. Then you need to look at diet in relation to age, growth, fertility, pregnancy, illnesses, etc... Follow that with sustainability, crop rotation, soil nutrients, fertilizers, irrigation, crop failure, etc, etc, etc... My 70yr old sister-in-law is severely lactose and gluten intolerant. There's almost no way she could give up meat too. What we must all accept and understand is that not everyone can be vegetarian or vegan, whether that be for physiological or geographical reasons, to name just a few.
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  #48  
Old 12.03.2019, 12:24
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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What we must all accept and understand is that not everyone can be vegetarian or vegan, whether that be for physiological or geographical reasons, to name just a few.
Or sometimes even cultural. I'll go home for Easter and am 100% sure there's no way I won't be tempted to stuff myself with lamb, eggs, cheese etc.
I think my relatives would look at me as I were from a different planet if I told them I'm gonna have a bit of bread with a tomato and an onion instead. (unless I tell them I'm fasting - that would understand but would still have a "wow" look on their face)
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  #49  
Old 12.03.2019, 12:29
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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On a related note it is worrying how much water it takes to produce stuff like almond milk etc. It's something like 900 gallons (over 4000 litres) of water for 1 gallon of milk.
Production of dairy milk uses 2.5x more water than almond milk production.
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  #50  
Old 12.03.2019, 12:29
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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I think my relatives would look at me as I were from a different planet if I told them I'm gonna have a bit of bread with a tomato and an onion instead. (unless I tell them I'm fasting - that would understand but would still have a "wow" look on their face)
I feel your pain. My OH's Greek Auntie puts extra spinach in her goat stew if she knows I'll be at dinner, so I spend half the time scraping the goat off and slipping it under the table to my OH.
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Old 12.03.2019, 12:35
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

I was vegetarian when I went to Greece.

Then I was invited to an Easter feast.

I am no longer vegetarian.

It was one of the most awkward - and ultimately most delicious - cross-cultural moments of my life.
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Old 12.03.2019, 12:37
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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Production of dairy milk uses 2.5x more water than almond milk production.
How about if you get it straight from the cow?
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Old 12.03.2019, 12:41
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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But all of that is only a small part of the story.
For someone who earlier accused others of not having an original thought in their heads, I'm surprised to see that your critique of the discussion involves random anecdotes about the amount of vitamin A in liver and your sister-in-law. The goal of the paper is to make quantitative observations about the carbon footprint of different foods, and that allows people to make informed choices. It's not a prescription that the whole farming system should be plant-based. In fact, there is a solid argument for doing mixed farming because grazing animals are valuable for keeping farmland in good condition, and for preventing desertification in arid places - see the work of Allan Savory among others.
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Old 12.03.2019, 12:42
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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How about if you get it straight from the cow?
In that case, it uses much less water.

Almond milk would use less water also, if we could only get it straight from the almonds.

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Old 12.03.2019, 12:58
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

Hi there

Actually a vegan shop has just opened in Zurich which has its own cheese counter. I haven't had the time to go yet but hoping to visit in a couple of days. The place is called Devi Deli / goettlich vegan and is on Bertastrasse 11, 8003 Zurich.

Just out of curiosity, why did you prefer not purchase the cheese online? Do you have any go to online stores for vegan food?
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Old 12.03.2019, 13:42
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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On a related note it is worrying how much water it takes to produce stuff like almond milk etc. It's something like 900 gallons (over 4000 litres) of water for 1 gallon of milk.
That sounds like a lot, had no idea it takes so much water to produce almond milk. Thinking more of it, it does put the prices into a different perspective.

But, then again, if you're making it yourself and can avoid buying stuff produced on an industrial scale...

https://minimalistbaker.com/how-to-make-almond-milk/
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Old 12.03.2019, 13:45
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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For someone who earlier accused others of not having an original thought in their heads, I'm surprised to see that your critique of the discussion ...
I was not making a critique of the discussion. I was offering other aspects for serious consideration when it comes to the decision making process regarding a radical change in dietary choices. In my opinion, the carbon footprint aspect, whilst it might be the initial motivating factor for some, remains a long way down the chain of the practical decision making process.

FYI I wasn't castigating an individual, but a movement which has emerged in recent years, but you get to an age where everything is bound to repeat itself. It all becomes laughable, like Greggs in the UK posting huge profits largely (they claim) because of their 'introduction' of a vegan sausage roll. Funny that, seeing as they've been making vegetarian sausage rolls for a good 30+yrs, but now they've rebranded them as 'vegan' profits have soared.
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Old 12.03.2019, 14:10
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

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That sounds like a lot, had no idea it takes so much water to produce almond milk. Thinking more of it, it does put the prices into a different perspective.

But, then again, if you're making it yourself and can avoid buying stuff produced on an industrial scale...

https://minimalistbaker.com/how-to-make-almond-milk/
can't tell if joking
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Old 12.03.2019, 14:12
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

I've heard that almond trees can be watered with Sunny Delight, so that would probably help.
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Old 12.03.2019, 14:22
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Re: vegan food - where can i buy pbbof?

I don't know why everyone is so concerned about climate change, the collapse of civilization, and human extinction, when the solution is hiding in plain sight: just build a big air conditioner.
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