Don't forget the Vegan wine to go with your Vegan food :

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...markets-online

Tom

I am not a vegan. I don't have an ideology. I am not trying to convince anyone to eat in any particular way.

Thanks for the pointer to the search function.

It ever occurred to me that wine could have animal bits in it .
Guess that I haven't been vegetarian all these decades after all...

OP, as said to you before on a previous post, I'm all in to healthy living, vegetarian, pescatarian, but as you are not a vegan, may I ask why you decided to open a vegan thread on EF? You've mentioned sustainability, but for me this doesn't make sense within the vegan perspective, as opposed to vegetarianism / pescatarianism. What are you hoping to sustain - cucumbers?

Surely there are enough sites out there on the net that more than cater for this...

ZuriRollt - I am sorry that I ever sent the original post. To answer your question, I changed my diet at the start of this year by reducing meat and fish a lot, and by stopping dairy products apart from cheese. That was motivated by sustainability. I then got generally interested in the topic including veganism which does have a connection to sustainability actually, as the diet with the lowest carbon footrprint. Obviously vegans are varied and have different motivations - ethical, health issues, sustainability - and I was wondering about that, because I got interested generally in this topic, and I wondered what people would say, and often to-and-fro discussion is as good as reading an article. A casual interaction often throws up things that would not be in a written article. Plus you get to know people with common interests. But you are quite right that the factual information is available elsewhere. I will drop off this discussion now and go to other resources for information, because I have caused more friction than anything else.

Personally, I'm all in favor of people becoming Vegan, driving electric cars, etc.

Leave more of the good stuff for the rest of us!

Tom

Hey, no friction - found it a good basis for discussion, and thanks for your feedback. I as one would be happy to continue on the thread of a member looking to reduce their meat and other animal product intake, and to explore the ethical, health, sustainability, carbon footprint and other associated issues!!!

Don't stop the thread!!!

Rubbish ! Start an anti-smoking thread if you really want to cause some friction.

I think you just have to accept that there are two sides (at least) to every argument, some people are incredibly selfish in their actions and jokes make the forum a bit more lively.

Agree OP, on an open forum it's to be expected that you'll get all opinions. A bit of humour thrown in, that's what keeps people reading! A good OP moderates this, and you'll be backed-up

Too much history with vegans trying to convert non-vegans Nothing personal.

That said I'm not sure veganism is more sustainable than other diets, i.e. I doubt it. Assuming you mean sustainability for the world at large. But it depends on which book or article you choose to read and believe.

What if I told you that the same veal stomach bits are not only in wine, but in some of the more traditional and better cheeses as well… particularly the more bio ones...

Frankly, those numbers seem highly dubious.

The Federal Office on Health conducts a health survey every five years where one of many questions is on the frequency of consumption of meat and/or sausages. In the most recent poll from 2017 5.7% of the respondents said they eat meat less than once a week whereas in 1997 5.3% said they are in this group.

Now, the numbers vary significantly as the low was registered in 2012 with 3.8%. Yet the highest number recorded was the 5.7% from 2017, obviously that's not even close to the 14% vegans/vegetarians and 17% flexitarians claimed by swissveg.

Yeah, that's also what I had in mind for the latest numbers. However, just want to point out that quite a few of those Wikipedia numbers seem to be based on rather dubious sources.

"The figures are based on self-declaration: Who sees himself as a vegan / vegetarian? That's why Swissveg has asked how often the vegetarians and vegans make exceptions in their diet. If these answers are included and only people that exepentiolessly eat vegetrian or vegan are accepted the results would show 1,5% vegans and 6,8% vegetarians. "

Tom

Hi OP,

I am sorry for all the side comments you've been receiving on your thread. But here I will share you my path and my struggles:

I have always been the biggest animal lover as a child but also loved eating meat. I never really linked "killing an animal" with the meat I was eating. (Meaning, I never visualised it in my head)

With the help of the internet, years ago I started to see more video clips of calves being dragged away from its mother which broke my heart and I immediately decided to stop eating any baby meat. Veal, lamb, piglets etc, it wasn't even hard to stop. Then I also realized how cruel foie gras and shark fin soups are....again, cut it out easily.

But somehow I continued to eat meat and chicken. 3 years ago, I stumbled upon a video of a very nervous beautiful white cow. The reporter spent time with the cow to calm her down, and as if she trusted the reporter, calmly walked into the slaughter space. That face full of trust, only to be killed moments later, hung up by one leg, still alive, and being cut open - it broke me down. My boyfriend who was next to me looked up in surprise and asked me what happened. I told him I wanted to stop eating meat and surprisingly, he immediately said he'd do it with me. For him, it was more for health reasons. We already ate very healthily, and are both fit people, but there was always room for improvement.

Since then, truthfully, we did not 100% stop meat. We didn't want to be complicated guests, so if our hosts happened to cook meat, we'd eat it. And once in many many months, maybe have a piece in a restaurant, if it specifically mentioned their beef came from a "happy farm" in Switzerland. As the nature is made perfect, animals hunt other animals, so I did not see a problem of eating meat in general. I was against factory farming and the cruelty that comes with it.

I then found out more to what happens to milking cows and its calves and stopped buying milk and substituted it with soya milk. I tried vegan cheese - and I did not like it. So we still had cheese from time to time as well as yoghurt.

We called ourselves pescatarian most of the time.

Now recently we watched one documentary movie after another: "Food Inc", then "Earthlings" and "Cowspiracy" and realized the extend of animal agriculture damage. "Earthlings" was SO heart wrenching, I felt like a small part of me had died.

And now, both my boyfriend and I are trying to change our diet to more "plant-based" for the reasons of environmental sustainability and the welfare of all animals. I say "plant-based" because I must admit, the word "vegan" comes with a stigma. They preach. No one like preaching. It's the wrong way to go about it.

It is mentioned in "Cowspiracy" as well but if I cannot kill an animal myself, why could I have a third party do it for me? Also the reality of the people that have no choice but to work in a slaughterhouse... it's horrendous.

Until we watched the documentaries, my boyfriend didn't feel too much for chickens. (he knew pigs are more intelligent than dogs, but chickens...oh well, was his thought) That has very much changed and he decided he cannot eat chickens anymore either.

A friend gave me my first plant-based cook book "deliciously ella" and her recipes are delicious! I just need to get used to more recipes that don't use animal products.

Our struggles...........cheese and yogurt. Not that we eat a lot of it.... but still... We will probably also not give up eggs, but make sure to only buy "freihaltung" eggs.
Will we ever be a 100% plant-based? I don't think so - but we try to be as close as possible. If everyone made a step of cutting down meat a LOT (not becoming entirely vegetarian), factory farming would not be necessary anymore. It's better for the environment, our health and the animals....

Something I will never do - is tell others what they should do. That will only work with negative effect. What I would like to suggest is however, that more people watch these documentaries - and be more aware. And then - people are free to make their own decisions. I just think it is important for people to have more awareness of the reality of what is going on.
This is a new path for us, and trying to still find our way

As mentioned, the categorisation in the government's poll is "less than once per week", not exactly what I'd call strict vegs/vegans.

Like Summergirl I consider myself pescatarian. I eat small amounts of fish but no meat - no dairy except the odd bit of cheese that I feel is beneficial to my bones.I am a great follower of nutritional yeast that can be used instead of cheese.

I find that the welfare of animals is so lacking in some countries that I can not bear to think of the suffering. (Animals shipped across europe for unacceptable hours often in terrible conditions) for example.

Did you know Summergirl that Ella has a new very good app with recipes, yoga etc. Also got a new book called Bosh.

I know lots of Vegans who actually seem determined to change everyone - there way is right and that's it - nothing worse than the converted!

Am going for lunch tomorrow at Titbits in Lausanne -it is vegan with vegetarian dishes too - I shall report back on how I get on

In the Zurich branches of Tibits, Tuesdays used to be entirely vegan. I'm always nipping in for their ingwer zitronen limonade, if nothing else.

From their site:

'Vegan Tuesday

Since June 2017, the dishes on the buffet on Tuesdays are no longer purely vegan. In the spirit of "Everyday is vegan day" you can enjoy a variety of vegetarian delicacies every day - over 80% of them vegan.'
https://www.tibits.ch/de/essen/vegan

...and they have lots of their recipes here... https://www.tibits.ch/de/rezepte

Thanks smackerjack, I didn't know but I have just downloaded it! This will make my new cooking path a lot easier and more interesting!

Also great info, thanks!

Said that I'd report back on my Titbits experience in Lausanne.

We went at 12.30 pm which obviously was the lunchtime rush - managed to get a table but I would recommend if possible to go after say 1.15 when it definitely was easier.

Everything is self service and then you take your tray to the bar, choose your drink and pay.

The food was absolutely delicious - lots of variety, not sure what a lot was ,and I did try a bit of most things. There was for dessert a section that had cheesecake, Tiramisu and fresh fruits.

Costs were very reasonable - my quite large plate came to just over 20chfs and the dessert was around 6chfs.

Would I go again - most definitely