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Old 30.01.2020, 16:24
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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I found the BBC article very interesting. One of our niece's problems is she consumes a lot of vegan processed junk food, she thought it was fantastic when fast food chains like McDs started offering vegan options. Personally, one of the most tasteless meals I've eaten was vegan at Tibits in Basel. It was just awful and whatever they use as substitutes for dairy are cloying and left a nasty aftertaste taste behind (although the harissa salad dressing was nice over rice!)

I've also read a lot over the past few years about soy products which vegans say as well as being a good source of protein protect against cancer, especially the female ones. Again interesting, because back in 2006 I was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of non hormonal breast cancer, which until Roche developed Herceptin had a very poor prognosis. Women in Britain had to go to court to fight for the right to this drug, thankfully for me the government approved it for wider use just after I was diagnosed and told i would need chemotherapy. (It's also used for some stomach cancers).

My oncologist was a woman and one thing she said to me was to avoid all things soy like the plague, because a non hormonal cancer can recur as a hormonal one. I took her advice, just followed a balanced diet once I was on the road to recovery, adding a few treats like wine and chocolate along the way.

As I'm still here 13 1/2 years on and my test results show I'm still cancer free I guess I must be doing something right
That‘s excellent. I‘m 9 years no evidence of disease (my controls are in a few weeks).

It seems that the story on soy is not so clear—-
Here
https://blog.dana-farber.org/insight...er-connection/
And here
https://www.livescience.com/57721-so...r-paradox.html

Basically, if you ate soy before diagnosis, you are likely ok to eat some now...until the next bit of research pops up. And of course, these are mostly animal models. And fermented soy seems to be ok. I eat small amounts of tofu on occasion.


Good luck....hope you remain NED. Me too.
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  #82  
Old 30.01.2020, 16:32
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Tibits could exist only in Switzerland: awful food, overpriced, 0 service as a matter of design, but someone spread the rumor it's hipster and the rest is history. Even for Swiss food standards, this is pretty impressive what are they getting away with.
Agree, went to the original Tibits (Hiltl) restaurant in Zurich when first arrived here in CH in 1987. It was abysmal, granny decor, school lunch food.

The family have since built a huge reputation around it being the first (and only vegetarian) restaurant in Zurich, but that’s it. I think they haven’t bothered to change the menu in decades. But the decor got a huge face-lift. It‘s too full, tables are too close together and the buffet is like riding on a merry-go-around, really bland food at quite heavy prices, service fast foodish, and so on.

They really just made a business based on the name and concept.
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  #83  
Old 30.01.2020, 16:36
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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back in 2006 I was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of non hormonal breast cancer, which until Roche developed Herceptin had a very poor prognosis.
Developing it wasn't the problem (as in, it had already been approved for other indications), but getting the right clinical trial properly analysed and accepted was more problematic. Without going into detail (cos of confidentiality etc.) there was a very real risk that the trial whose interim results, presented to the oncology world which triggered the immediate off-label use could have been found to be non-compliant (computer-wise, not the trial itself).

Anyway, I'm always please to meet survivors in the knowledge that I had a small part to play in helping bring one of the earliest 'cures for cancer' to a successful outcome.
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  #84  
Old 30.01.2020, 16:38
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Tibits Locations:

London
Basel
Bern
Darmstadt
Lausanne
Lucerne
St. Gallen
Winterthur
Zurich

Who said vegans were less intelligent?
I hardly think that eating at Tibits is the best example of intelligent behaviour
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  #85  
Old 30.01.2020, 16:42
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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I hardly think that eating at Tibits is the best example of intelligent behaviour
Only slightly more intelligent than thinking London and Darmstadt are in Switzerland I guess
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  #86  
Old 30.01.2020, 17:36
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

I think Vegans are pretty smart ignoring this thread.
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  #87  
Old 30.01.2020, 18:39
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Developing it wasn't the problem (as in, it had already been approved for other indications), but getting the right clinical trial properly analysed and accepted was more problematic. Without going into detail (cos of confidentiality etc.) there was a very real risk that the trial whose interim results, presented to the oncology world which triggered the immediate off-label use could have been found to be non-compliant (computer-wise, not the trial itself).

Anyway, I'm always please to meet survivors in the knowledge that I had a small part to play in helping bring one of the earliest 'cures for cancer' to a successful outcome.
I appreciate any and all contributions to research. However, the reality is that herceptin is a treatment, not a cure. A really effective treatment that’s extending lives, and that’s a great thing. And the reality with breast cancer is that you can’t say you’re cured unless you die of something else. I just lost a friend who developed Mets nearly 17 years after her initial treatment. And that’s just one example.
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Old 30.01.2020, 19:14
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Something we knew all along: vegans are not quite as intelligent as carnivores. The gist: "Without question, veganism can cause B12 and iron deficiencies, and without question they affect your intelligence". You're welcome.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...r-intelligence

Please, let the vegan-azzis flaming begin!
Don't you know BBC is a fascist organization?
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  #89  
Old 30.01.2020, 19:16
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

I think I was lucky in that I was classed as early stage, despite being Stage 3. Out of 23 lymph nodes removed they found it in one (sentinel node biopsy wasn't widely available in the UK at that point). Unfortunately for me, it was diagnosed late by accident, all of my biopsy results were clear so I was told no cancer. Went into hospital to have a benign lump removed and lo and behold there was a tumour hidden underneath it.

I have a cousin who is a retired Professor specialising in cancer treatments, he ran a clinic in Australia for a number of years and then took over a cancer centre near Glasgow as Medical Director. At the time I was being treated he told me about one Herceptin study in Italy where 50% of the women died within 3 years of treatment, but he also said those women would have died anyway as their cancers had been very advanced.

I also had an aunt who had breast cancer when it was treated with mastectomy and massive doses of radiation. She agreed to go on a trial for the first drug they had which was called 5FU, my cousin was then a very young doctor in Edinburgh and he assisted the Professor who was handling the trial. My aunt lived for 33 years afterwards and died of old age. Both her mother and sister died of breast cancer. She was the funniest and most cheerful lady I have ever known so she is my benchmark
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  #90  
Old 30.01.2020, 19:19
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

For the record, I know I'm not cured. My surgeon and oncologist told me the best they could ever tell me was I was NED and I can live with that because the alternative is death
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Old 30.01.2020, 19:37
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

I've cut certain foods out since I had my gall bladder removed 6 years ago.
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  #92  
Old 30.01.2020, 19:59
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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I appreciate any and all contributions to research. However, the reality is that herceptin is a treatment, not a cure. A really effective treatment that’s extending lives, and that’s a great thing. And the reality with breast cancer is that you can’t say you’re cured unless you die of something else. I just lost a friend who developed Mets nearly 17 years after her initial treatment. And that’s just one example.
The reasons it was lauded as a cure are that in those patients with the HER2 gene expression, diagnosed early enough, it's guaranteed to work, and that progression-free survival of 10+ years was viewed as such. Don't forget that once the original cancer is treated, no further ongoing medication is needed.

Metastases at 17 years later is very unusual, and most likely not really able to be definitively linked with the original cancer.

In any case, I'm not arguing that it should be, just that it was, labelled as a cure for cancer at the time or was approved for use in that indication (actually before approval, based on the interim results).
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Old 30.01.2020, 22:37
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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I've cut certain foods out since I had my gall bladder removed 6 years ago.
Could I ask you which foods you have cut out and the reason? I am interested as I had my gall bladder removed a few years ago.
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  #94  
Old 30.01.2020, 23:16
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

My daughter told me today that they were talking about healthy life choices at school, and that one thing was vegetarian and vegan diet, I pointed out that the beyond burger is not healthy (it being highly processed) and that chocolate cake was vegetarian, I said vegetables are an important part of the diet, but some essential things are more easily absorbed from animal products, we agreed we could be vegetarian, but not vegan. And, what ever your diet, limiting processed foods is important.
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Old 30.01.2020, 23:22
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Developing it wasn't the problem (as in, it had already been approved for other indications), but getting the right clinical trial properly analysed and accepted was more problematic. Without going into detail (cos of confidentiality etc.) there was a very real risk that the trial whose interim results, presented to the oncology world which triggered the immediate off-label use could have been found to be non-compliant (computer-wise, not the trial itself).

Anyway, I'm always please to meet survivors in the knowledge that I had a small part to play in helping bring one of the earliest 'cures for cancer' to a successful outcome.
Thank you, herceptin gave my grandmother an extra 3 years where she got to meet two additional great-grandchildren got to know the great-grandchildren who were babies as children, and managed to recover from her depression over her husband’s death.
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Old 31.01.2020, 07:26
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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I think they haven’t bothered to change the menu in decades. But the decor got a huge face-lift. It‘s too full, tables are too close together and the buffet is like riding on a merry-go-around, really bland food at quite heavy prices, service fast foodish, and so on
Really? I actually love HITL...I don't love the prices, but the food is delicious. Have you been recently? It has improved drastically in the past few years. Best to go outside the lunch rush hour if you can...
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Old 31.01.2020, 10:18
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Really? I actually love HITL...I don't love the prices, but the food is delicious. Have you been recently? It has improved drastically in the past few years. Best to go outside the lunch rush hour if you can...
Why visit again a place that you already concluded in 1987 that it's bad?

On a more serious note, I, for one, love eating there. I really like their food. The ambiance and the service are cool.
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Old 31.01.2020, 10:20
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Really? I actually love HITL...I don't love the prices, but the food is delicious. Have you been recently? It has improved drastically in the past few years. Best to go outside the lunch rush hour if you can...
I agree. I wonder someone's expectations if Hiltl is not good enough.
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Old 31.01.2020, 10:24
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

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Metastases at 17 years later is very unusual, and most likely not really able to be definitively linked with the original cancer.
I‘m sorry if this is off topic, but your information is incorrect.

Hormone positive breast cancer can metastasize after a latent period of more than 10 years. There are not adequate statistics because most surveillance data bases only record patients at original diagnosis stage, so only relatively few patients are listed at stage 4 - those that present with de novo Mets, maybe 10%. And then as many as 30% of early stage patients go on to develop Mets along the course of their lives (secondary breast cancer in the UK), but again there are crap statistics.


So indeed, it is possible to develop Mets after a long latent period. There are many recent resources online to back this up.


ok, I’ve said enough.
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Old 31.01.2020, 13:46
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Re: Vegans are less intelligent than carnivores

'Could I ask you which foods you have cut out and the reason? I am interested as I had my gall bladder removed a few years ago'.

I don't follow a low fat diet, but after I had my gall bladder out I found I couldn't tolerate anything deep fried well, also anything like black pudding (which my husband brings back from our local butcher in Scotland) is now difficult for me. Sauces heavy on cream can be a problem as well. At the beginning of the year I cut alcohol back to a bare minimum.

In my case, it manifests as bile acid malabsorption, due to the bile duct being rerouted. It's a bit like having IBS, so I carry Immodium Instants at all times in case I end up having to eat anything that doesn't agree. I'm going to Scotland for 8 days at the end of the month, my one big treat there is always eating fish and chips overlooking the sea, but I pay for it the following day It's to do with the gut processing the fat content in foods in a different way when you have no GB. I don't have it all the time, perhaps once a month.

I tried following a vegetarian/vegan diet for 2 weeks last autumn and found my gut could not cope with it.
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