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  #21  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:17
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Re: Espresso after dinner

Why are Italians always used as the example of the perfect coffee nation, when they actually came very late to the game?

Austria is well known as the first place to really serve coffee in Europe, and the typical Melange has milk with it at any time of day.
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  #22  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:22
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Life's easier in German speaking CH, I get the right thing when I say espresso.
I get the right thing down here when i ask for a caffe too (albeit made with varying degrees of competence). but on an english speaking forum of people from various origins the best term to clarify the meaning would espresso.
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  #23  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:23
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Why are Italians always used as the example of the perfect coffee nation, when they actually came very late to the game?

Austria is well known as the first place to really serve coffee in Europe, and the typical Melange has milk with it at any time of day.
there are more of them
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  #24  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:24
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Why are Italians always used as the example of the perfect coffee nation, when they actually came very late to the game?

Austria is well known as the first place to really serve coffee in Europe, and the typical Melange has milk with it at any time of day.

Is there an Austrian equivalent of a Bialetti Moka? But, taking the hipster bait, anyone from Ethiopia around here to tell how coffee should be made?
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Old 06.01.2021, 17:27
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Re: Espresso after dinner

with cardamon.
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Old 06.01.2021, 17:28
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Why are Italians always used as the example of the perfect coffee nation, when they actually came very late to the game?

Austria is well known as the first place to really serve coffee in Europe, and the typical Melange has milk with it at any time of day.
It was drunk black and short in Istanbul long before Austria and if my memory of school serves me correctly, Istanbul is in Europe.

The Austrians probably added milk as they didn't like the bitter taste.
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Old 06.01.2021, 17:32
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Why are Italians always used as the example of the perfect coffee nation, when they actually came very late to the game?

Austria is well known as the first place to really serve coffee in Europe, and the typical Melange has milk with it at any time of day.
Because perfection has nothing to do with when you joined the game.
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  #28  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:32
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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This is also really funny.

During my 4 years in Neuchâtel I had troubles to get the right thing. Some sassy waiter told the same thing: don't call it espresso, it's café. In other places some days later, I ordered a café and I got some watery thing. I ask why I got the watery thing and the waiter replied: ahhh, did you want an espresso? Somehow learned at which places it was OK to ask an espresso and at which ones order a café.....only to find some weeks later the service people was new and back to square one. Life's easier in German speaking CH, I get the right thing when I say espresso.
Most people here call it un express rather than an espresso, that’s probably where you went wrong.


I’m not really much if a coffee drinker and would never drink an espresso at any time of day but here in Neuchâtel coffee is always drunk after dessert and never with it.
If I drink coffee at all then it is a milky coffee and I drink it any time of day, I don’t care if it’s not the proper Italian way to do it.
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  #29  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:34
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Re: Espresso after dinner

You're right Belgianmum, my memory failed. The problem was the confusion between express and café. I think the French immigrants chose that café was a hill to die for. Locals had not trouble with express.
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  #30  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:35
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Cappuccino is an abomination at any time of day, but the idea of Italians scorning people who drink it after 11am is, I think, largely a myth.
It's not a myth. Don't ask me how I know.
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  #31  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:35
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Because perfection has nothing to do with when you joined the game.
Of course, Italians invented the espresso machine which meant quality and ease and speed of making coffee spread the coffee craze quickly around the country.

Tomatoes are from South America but look at how Italy seems to use them in cuisine better than anyone else.
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  #32  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:51
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Is there an Austrian equivalent of a Bialetti Moka? But, taking the hipster bait, anyone from Ethiopia around here to tell how coffee should be made?

if we're going down the hipster route, then blue mountain? (it's ok tried it a few times) also luwak but surely that has jumped the shark now?


Espress, espresso? coffee? I guess i need to relearn how to order coffee here. Just for fun, after 10 years I finally learnt the complicated art of coffee ordering in Singapore (and now it's irrelevant here)


intro to singapore coffee ordering:



Kopi: Black Coffee with condensed milk
Kopi Peng: Sweet black coffee with condensed milk and ice
Kopi O Siew Dai: Black coffee with less sugar
Kopi-O: Sweet black coffee
Kopi-Kosong: Unsweetened black coffee
Kopi Kosong Peng: Unsweetened black coffee with ice
Kopi-O Peng: Sweet black coffee with ice
Kopi Gah Dai: Black coffee with extra condensed milk
Kopi Po: A weaker coffee with condensed milk
Kopi Gau: Strong coffee with condensed milk
Kopi-C: Coffee with unsweetened evaporated milk (the C is for Carnation); but they’ll still add sugar
Kopi Ta Bao: To-go
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  #33  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:55
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Re: Espresso after dinner

Normally simply called caffè around here, or caffè liscio (if you don't want them to ask you how you want it), though I prefer ristretto.

After dessert, not with dessert.

And cappuccio only in the morning.

Tom
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  #34  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:56
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Re: Espresso after dinner

Hmmm...I am not a coffee ritualist, traditionalist or snob. I only care if it's warm, has caffeine in it and isn't bitter. Milk is optional but rare, it started to wreck it for me. I was pretty happy to find the last Dunkin Donuts French Vanilla pack of ground coffee in Switzerland, since imports froze a while back.

At home people never drink coffee in the evening, unless they are on shifts or cramming for exams. Before dessert, with or after. And a bit of rum.

It's been a while since I had a proper Czech turkish coffee.

I like how much people know about coffee here in CH without making it a big deal.
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  #35  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:58
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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intro to singapore coffee ordering:



Kopi: Black Coffee with condensed milk
Kopi Peng: Sweet black coffee with condensed milk and ice
Kopi O Siew Dai: Black coffee with less sugar
Kopi-O: Sweet black coffee
Kopi-Kosong: Unsweetened black coffee
Kopi Kosong Peng: Unsweetened black coffee with ice
Kopi-O Peng: Sweet black coffee with ice
Kopi Gah Dai: Black coffee with extra condensed milk
Kopi Po: A weaker coffee with condensed milk
Kopi Gau: Strong coffee with condensed milk
Kopi-C: Coffee with unsweetened evaporated milk (the C is for Carnation); but they’ll still add sugar
Kopi Ta Bao: To-go
Ha haa. I was once in an Indian restaurant in Singapore and ordered a "chai," thinking I was going to get the spiced tea drink that you get in the States. Boy, was I wrong. It was just normal tea.
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  #36  
Old 06.01.2021, 17:58
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Re: Espresso after dinner

In my esperience, people tend to have strong but not well-justified opinions about coffee. I know lots of Italians that drink cappuccinos when they like and not only before 11 am.

I think the only reason not to drink coffee after dinner may be that it could be difficult to sleep because of caffeine - although a lot of coffee drinkers may have built up tolerance, so it may just be a matter of preference.
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  #37  
Old 06.01.2021, 18:00
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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In my esperience, people tend to have strong but not well-justified opinions about coffee. I know lots of Italians that drink cappuccinos when they like and not only before 11 am.
How does that work when every bar in Italy I've ever been in gets rid of the milk pot before lunch?

Tom
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  #38  
Old 06.01.2021, 18:08
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Ha haa. I was once in an Indian restaurant in Singapore and ordered a "chai," thinking I was going to get the spiced tea drink that you get in the States. Boy, was I wrong. It was just normal tea.
Live & learn, chai simply means tea
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  #39  
Old 06.01.2021, 18:10
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Ha haa. I was once in an Indian restaurant in Singapore and ordered a "chai," thinking I was going to get the spiced tea drink that you get in the States. Boy, was I wrong. It was just normal tea.

when I first came to Switzerland I ordered a "kaffee eis" thinking it was going to be an iced coffee. Picture the scene when everyone else was served their espressos after the meal and I sat there with this huge "kaffee eis" with whipped cream, the works...and no coffee...
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  #40  
Old 06.01.2021, 18:24
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Re: Espresso after dinner

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Most of my Swiss friends (and family) take an espresso after dinner. At home and in restaurants. Before the lockdown we had a final meal out and OH Godmother noticed we ordered espresso with dessert. She made a jokey comment about it being not proper etiquette. This suprised me.

Then we began to compare was it a German/Swiss german thing? (relating to kaffee/kuchen culture, plus she is from the romandie side)

I recall in Italy being told it was a faux pas to drink a cappucino in the afternoon.
So what are your habits, espresso after dinner with dessert ok? other coffee habits, Swiss or otherwise? (and don't get me started on swiss chicory coffee )
That surprised me too. I mean her faux pas. You do not comment on what people are ordering or having at the table, no matter how much your tongue is itching you.

That being said, as far as I know many people have an espresso as a dessert, not with a dessert. More like a digestive if you want.

Anyway, I personally don't care about these things too much. You did nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned and I noticed many other people prefer their coffee with a cake or something sweet so it depends....
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