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  #21  
Old 16.05.2021, 13:13
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

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But you don’t need to unless you are making large quantities. And, my deep-frozen ice cream bowl starts out colder than your fancy compressor driven doohicky. If i prechill the ice cream ‘batter’, it is too cold and the mix will turn to ice cream too quickly (2-3 min) in the prefrozen kitchenaid bowl. ....

Starting temperature is the same, because it is based on the same technology, compressor and gas with boiling point at -40°C. You also start with the pre-chilled machine, it takes few minutes. The main difference is that with pre-cooled bowls, the bowl is warming up trough the process and sometimes you would need that few extra degrees at the end. The top down motors are another week mechanical point, but you can find them in cheap machines with or without compressor.



Otherwise I agree, that with some care and planning you can make many good ice creams there, but not all of them. Gin-cucumber sorbet is one that needs a lot of cooling power. Simply said, ice creams or sorbets with more water will freeze at higher temperature, but they will be less smooth.
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  #22  
Old 16.05.2021, 13:31
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

just got myself one of these today:

Solis Gelateria Pro Touch
2 Liter Glacé, Sorbet, Frozen, Youghurt
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  #23  
Old 16.05.2021, 13:33
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

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First, if I would have money, I would immediately buy Musso.
I have Nemox Gelatissimo, for 9 years now, it was not expensive machine, I bought it with my first salary here

just few remarks:
- plastic blade and aluminum bowl is not so bad for home use, but of course, it is not stainless steel gastro level*
- time to make an ice-cream depends on the quantity and temperature of base, but it is around 20-30 minutes and for sure not an hour
- I am using the machine a lot, running it batches of ice cream for huge parties, and it didn't die till now.
You cannot compare simple machines with pre-cooled bowls with machines with their own compressor, even if they are cheap one. Pre-cooled bowls are warming up while you are making the ice-cream. You cannot just run them a little bit longer if you need to. Just avoid machines with separated motor on the top.
*I can use my machine without removable bowl, and slightly bigger blade, but it is pain to clean it. This way I can freeze vodka in it, it is fun for parties
The blade is still plastic, and yes, it is designed badly, with corners, so it is hard to clean. And in nine years blades got slightly used, but I still do not have more than 2mm of sticking ice-cream at the bottom.
If you eat the ice-cream directly after it is made, you are much more free with recipes and ingredients, most of the ice-cream science is in keeping the ice-cream characteristics while it is waiting to be eaten.
Thank you for the useful feedback. When you say the blades got slightly used, does that mean you can see the result of friction on the plastic ?

What difference in the end product would you expect from the rotation speed (Gelatissimo Exclusive i-Green given at 30 rpm) and Musso mini at 80 rpm?
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  #24  
Old 16.05.2021, 13:50
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

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Thank you for the useful feedback. When you say the blades got slightly used, does that mean you can see the result of friction on the plastic ?

What difference in the end product would you expect from the rotation speed (Gelatissimo Exclusive i-Green given at 30 rpm) and Musso mini at 80 rpm?
Size of the crystals I guess
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  #25  
Old 16.05.2021, 14:11
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

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Does that match your experience?

Have you used yours intensively? Or is the noise level an issue?

Do you know what the rotation speed is (rpm)?
Pretty much, yes. But I’m a young (47…consider myself young), healthy, guy, and 14kg for an appliance is far from an issue for me. I’m a bit over 1.8m tall, so the size is also a non-issue, and I can easily handle it when I get it from the lowest shelf on a sideboard in the dining room.

The noise…well, yes, it’s quite loud. Keep in mind you’re running a compressor there, so I imagine most machines are more or less equally loud. But that’s just a personal guess.

We use it 5 to 10 times per year since we got it, some 7 or 8 years ago. The most we’re run it is probably 3 times in a row. No issues.

I haven’t measured rotation speed, but it’s probably the same as the machine on the left of the first review video you posted. It’s most certainly not as fast as the gastro one on the right. Still, that doesn’t strike me as an issue. I don’t really mind what speed it’s going at, as long as there’s enough air in the ice cream to provide a good texture. Which it does.

Could it be better? Probably. The blade is plastic, and although it shows no signs of wear whatsoever, it does worry me that it will break when I’m not paying attention, and I hear that the ice cream is ready: it’s thick and cold enough, and the machine is having trouble spinning the blade. I have no reason to believe that it would ever be an issue, but it bothers me. My guess is that the engine has a built-in clutch, and when the blade meets a certain level of resistance, it allows the blade to “slip”, and it makes the clackety-clack noise the review mentions.
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  #26  
Old 16.05.2021, 14:15
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

Yes, I wanted to say there is some wear, but it is negligible. I don't know what a difference in speeds really means, only what I read about it.

I suggest that you buy the Musso*, than we all meet, and do an ice-cream with the same recipe but different machines.

Afterward, other people should do a blind test and we can compare results. This would be the only proper way to evaluate them.

*it is beautiful, I would buy it just for that
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  #27  
Old 16.05.2021, 14:36
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

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Do you know what the rotation speed is (rpm)
Wife’s away at a Yoga retreat, and it’s a rainy day. So with little to do, I measured the rotation speed at 46 RPM (without any load). Shot a short clip of it:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81b152
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  #28  
Old 16.05.2021, 14:57
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

I have this cheap one from gino gelati:
https://smile.amazon.de/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Was thinking between unold and this, and decided for this one. Main reason was the bowl that can be removed and cleaned properly. And that one matters a lot to me. When few drops drop in the main nonremovable bowl it's really cumbersome to clean it up.
Plus size of the bowl. 1.5 L or so of custard takes two runs to do it, making half of it is doable but not easy task, but going even smaller isn't - thermometer and pot combination wouldn't work anymore. And I guess I'd need 4+ runs for the small bowls which then would last just too long.

We have some ikea bowl 'bath' in the freezer with water/ice, where warm custard goes from the stove, and then when the ice melts, cooled custard goes into the ice machine, and it takes around 20-30 minutes.

We bought it last year in April, used at least 10 times, if not more, and it's one of the best ice creams I've ate. And I'm really picky which ice cream I consider really good.
I think key ingredient that makes me happy is when they use use real eggs and make it from scratch, so no using pre-made liquids or powders. Which reflects on the price. And our at home is cheaper than many those mid price range store made and significantly cheaper than those really good ones.
I guess in CH the difference will be even bigger...

So it definitely is a gadget I foresee will have a good future with us

But, taste of ice cream definitely depends on ingredients, their freshness, ratio, their fattiness and how well you follow the procedure (good thermometer is a must). Not all batches were great ones :P

Not all behave the same in the bowl when mixing and you need a bit of experiments to see what you like.

I think my machine turns somewhat faster than the one on the left in the video (severin one), when the custard is liquid. After 15 minutes or so, when it starts to make bumps, then blades slow down until they remove the bump.
I'm not sure there's clutch, I'm becoming too anxious hearing how motor definitely suffers and I consider it done. So, ice cream is definitely malleable in that state, so no problem with removing it from the bowl.

Also, ice cream is nice to eat when done but it's soft and melts too fast if you decide to eat it right then and there, it definitely wants a freezer for a few hours. Maybe if someone waits until blades don't move anymore, then it's hard to remove it from the bowl?

Maybe that's main difference between cheaper machine like mine and unold, maybe unold makes ready to eat one without need for a freezer?

Noise doesn't bother me, it's in the kitchen behind closed door. But yes, it's definitely really loud to be beside it when it works.

And you can scoop it immediately after taking it out from the freezer, no matter how long it was there, no need to 'wait until it relax a bit'. Yes it's hard but doable unlike with many store bought ice creams eg Ben & Jerry.

I bought that fancy scoop from zeroll, and it definitely glides smoothly through the ice cream with much less effort needed (in comparison with some ordinary wmf one or spoon, but they both can scoop if you want, which doesn't work with B&J from the same freezer)

And ingredient list is simple one - egg yolks, sugar, cream, milk, vanilla beans, salt.
Without milk it's just too fatty aftertaste after you ate several spoons + it leaves fatty residue on the spoon, which got on my nerves

https://www.joshuaweissman.com/post/homemade-ice-cream

This is base recipe we started with. My SO cooks, I eat
Egg yolks we go up to 10, sugar lower, ratio of fat around 20-25% (so diluting cream with milk to get that).... so play around
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  #29  
Old 16.05.2021, 15:20
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

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Maybe that's main difference between cheaper machine like mine and unold, maybe unold makes ready to eat one without need for a freezer?
Nope, even in my shop, with a large 20+ liter commercial machine you just about ALWAYS have to go into the fridge before it's ready to eat. Mine were sort of like this one (but it had no spout, so you had to remove the ready ice cream with a gigantic scoop, a sort of breed between a scoop and a broom):


Last edited by Caleb; 16.05.2021 at 15:33.
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  #30  
Old 16.05.2021, 19:37
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

Thank you all for the very valuable and interesting views and experiences. A wide range indeed as to be expected.

I have found an article that explains the science behind the ice cream making:

https://icecreamscience.com/ice-crystals-in-ice-cream/

for those that are interested.

It answers a number of questions relative to how the machine impacts the consistency of the end result.
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  #31  
Old 16.05.2021, 21:17
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

Thanks Caleb for clarification.
Nor, this article is great
Who would knew there are so many researches done on ice cream making and properties

We definitely do this:
Quote:
any other machine with an in-built compressor, switch the compressor on and leave it running for about 15 minutes before you add your mix.
Maybe not 15 minutes though, but definitely not just starting the machine when pouring the cooled custard.

I'm definitely inclined to think that we don't have build up on the walls because we stop the process before there's a risk for the motor eg motor definitely can rotate it still, it's just harder.
I remember once we did have a buildup (in some initial batches), but no clue what were the ingredient for that exact batch, eg if it was affected not just by the duration spent in the machine or by the ingredients.


I'm happy with results for our cream rich vanilla ice cream, and after reading this link form Nor, I don't think more expensive machine would provide that much value to be worth the price difference. For me.

However, we haven't tried with fruits, nor more milk/less cream based nor water based things, so the difference between the value for the money might lie there, eg gino gelati vs unold. No clue, just thinking out loud why unold and others cost that much more.
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  #32  
Old 16.05.2021, 22:04
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

http://icecreamscience.com/


here is also a lot on it, including reviews of few machines, recipes, chemistry etc. Internet is full of that, I already spent so much time on such things
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  #33  
Old 17.05.2021, 00:04
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

I am passionate about gelato making and studied at Carpigiani Gelato University. When I was choosing my machines years ago, I came to a conclusion that consumer machines just don't cut it.
So I bought smallest pro machines (used, also Carpigiani) and cannot be happier. They are reliable, simple, and gelato quality is just better than anything available in commercial shops, (and I am not talking about just Switzerland here).
Expensive they are, but they also last forever and I never buy any industrial ice cream anymore.


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Thank you all for the very valuable and interesting views and experiences. A wide range indeed as to be expected.

I have found an article that explains the science behind the ice cream making:

https://icecreamscience.com/ice-crystals-in-ice-cream/

for those that are interested.

It answers a number of questions relative to how the machine impacts the consistency of the end result.
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  #34  
Old 17.05.2021, 10:42
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

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....When I was choosing my machines years ago, I came to a conclusion that consumer machines just don't cut it....
...and I never buy any industrial ice cream anymore.
Out of curiosity (and not tochallenge your statement), why, what are the differences?
- taste-wise any (or 99.9%) home ice cream is better than industrial, because you choose right, high quality ingredients / right recipe, and you don't have to compromise so much to satisfy the health and processing demands as with industrial food

- home ice cream mostly lacks in structure, so it has to differ there? Can you give us some insight?
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Old 17.05.2021, 17:01
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

"- taste-wise any (or 99.9%) home ice cream is better than industrial, because you choose right, high quality ingredients / right recipe, and you don't have to compromise so much to satisfy the health and processing demands as with industrial food"

Fully agree on the point above.

"- home ice cream mostly lacks in structure, so it has to differ there? Can you give us some insight?"

Yes, smooth structure is one thing (pro machines produce smaller crystals), but it is also:
- if you follow proper process (with pro machines), then gelato can be kept longer. I am only making it several times a year (several flavours) and then have it readily available on any occasion
- more freedom with respect to recipes, i.e. one can stretch it a bit with fat, sugar, MSNF, etc tolerances, but the batch freezer will still pull it off. Same goes for adding alcohol (various liqueurs to give special flavours)
- economies of scale do it once, enjoy it for long

But of course tastes differ and gelato making standards also differ a lot. Nowadays it is hard to find good gelato shops even in Italy. But I know a few and they set the bar for me

I am happy to advise on gelato-related issues, just PM me.

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Out of curiosity (and not tochallenge your statement), why, what are the differences?
- taste-wise any (or 99.9%) home ice cream is better than industrial, because you choose right, high quality ingredients / right recipe, and you don't have to compromise so much to satisfy the health and processing demands as with industrial food

- home ice cream mostly lacks in structure, so it has to differ there? Can you give us some insight?
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  #36  
Old 17.05.2021, 23:13
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

I have a compressor machine from Aldi, and I found that the game changing tricks were:
- using xantham gum as a thickner (also combined with egg)
- proper proportions (fat milk, sugar) although xantham gum helps a lot with skim milk and no calory sugar replacements
- cooling the ice cream mixture overnight before making icecream
- precooling the bucket by running the machine empty.

I had excellent result with chocolate, matcha, oreo, and mango icecream and other fruits, especially after I learned to correct for the water content.
I found however that some aromas like pistachio disappear rather quickly.
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  #37  
Old 18.05.2021, 11:55
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Re: Gelato ice cream machine

I found this video that sums up ice cream making at home:

https://youtu.be/QarGxGjEIcI

Measuring the draw temperature and striving to reach a certain draw temperature depending on the recipe was new to me.
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