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Old 04.06.2021, 21:34
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Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

So this might sound like a stupid question, but the day I found out I was pregnant was also the day that I realised, totally unbeknown to me, that I had been eating unpasteurised yoghurt. I had no idea that it was possible to buy raw milk products in supermarkets, even though I've lived here for years. I knew about cheese, but yoghurt and milk never crossed my mind.

So now I am really paranoid. I am pregnant, and I was checking the chocolate and ice-cream packets (so desperate for a weekend treat), but it doesn't say pasteurised. Does this mean that there is the possibility that it has been made with raw milk products?
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Old 04.06.2021, 21:47
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

It is almost impossible to buy any chocolate made with real milk here, it is mostly made from milk powder. Certainly not in a supermarket, unless you deliberately choose to go into extra bio and ultra natural section. But still unlikely, because the main reason Swiss milk chocolate became superior to other chocolates at one point in time was the transition to use of dry milk powder.

On a note about the raw milk: you may be interested in some scientific information, not just fears based on 1950s views on a factory produced food. But(!), if it gives you psychological comfort and a feel of security, it is fine to avoid any food or activity, which causes stress or fear.
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Old 04.06.2021, 21:56
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

Thank you. I saw that it said milk powder, but it also said milk fat. I've googled it but nothing really comes up, so I am guessing it is fine. But like I say, I thought the yoghurt was fine, too.

To the person who groaned at me, I think this is a valid question. I was told to avoid unpasteurised products, but not which products were unpasteurised. Like I say, it would never even have crossed my mind that yoghurt could be sold like that, so for all I know chocolate could be the same.
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Old 04.06.2021, 21:58
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

"On a note about the raw milk: you may be interested in some scientific information, not just fears based on 1950s views on a factory produced food. But(!), if it gives you psychological comfort and a feel of security, it is fine to avoid any food or activity, which causes stress or fear."


I'm not sure why you're sharing this? The reason why they tell you not to eat raw milk is because of the risk of listeria, which the heat process removes (as per your article). Pregnant women are at much higher risk of listeria because of changes to the immune system. Listeria bacterial infections cause miscarriages, birth defects and still births in babies even though it often doesn't affect the mother more than a light infection. It's pretty serious, so raw milk is fine when not pregnant, but I will definitely be avoiding as best I can while pregnant.
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Old 04.06.2021, 22:11
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

I was also told by my doctor to not drink or eat unpasteurized milk products while I was pregnant (I also do not eat or drink them while NOT pregnant).

"Pregnant women run a serious risk of becoming ill from the bacteria Listeria, which is often found in raw milk and can cause miscarriage, or illness, or death of the newborn baby."

Source:
The Dangers of Raw Milk: Unpasteurized Milk Can Pose a Serious Health Risk
https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-s...us-health-risk

Regarding chocolate, I guess that had never occurred to me, but I don't recall ever being told by my doctor to NOT eat it while pregnant, and so I'm sure I probably ate plenty of it.

After doing a quick Google search, I did find this:

"Chocolate is perfectly safe for most pregnant women – in moderation. In fact, there's some evidence that eating chocolate during pregnancy could lower your risk of preeclampsia and gestational hypertension.

One study found that eating a small amount of dark chocolate every day starting in the first trimester improved blood flow to the fetus. Expecting moms in that study ate about one ounce of dark chocolate per day – that's about a quarter of a bar of chocolate, or 54 chocolate chips."

Is it safe to eat a lot of chocolate during pregnancy?
https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy...gnancy_1245156
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Old 04.06.2021, 22:12
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

You DO realize that chocolate is cooked, don't you?

Tom
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Old 04.06.2021, 22:18
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

Don't overgoogle what to avoid during pregnancy. Avoiding raw milk is quite easy since most milk here has been pasturized. Yoghurt is in fact a healthy thing to eat while pregnant, as is most things.

Avoid alcohol and check with your doctor about any additional vitamins or other recommended nutrients. Otherwise, enjoy your pregnancy. I loved being pregnant and knowing my child is safe and sound in my belly.
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Old 04.06.2021, 22:25
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

Thank you, but as per my original post, I already DID eat unpasteurised yoghurt. I bought this from a supermarket. This is the reason for double-checking everything relating to milk products, not because I am anxious about pregnancy (therefore, thank you, but there is no need to patronise).
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Old 04.06.2021, 22:50
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

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Thank you, but as per my original post, I already DID eat unpasteurised yoghurt. I bought this from a supermarket. This is the reason for double-checking everything relating to milk products, not because I am anxious about pregnancy (therefore, thank you, but there is no need to patronise).
Yoghurt is uncooked, chocolate is cooked, thus no need to pasteurize it, not at ALL the same thing.

Do you understand the difference?

Tom
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Old 04.06.2021, 22:58
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

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Thank you, but as per my original post, I already DID eat unpasteurised yoghurt. I bought this from a supermarket. This is the reason for double-checking everything relating to milk products, not because I am anxious about pregnancy (therefore, thank you, but there is no need to patronise).
And there's no need to overreact.

Edit: Andererseits besteht kein Grund zur Panik: Die Listeriose ist auch unter Schwangeren immer noch sehr selten, man geht von etwa zwei Fällen pro 1000 Schwangerschaften aus

Translated: On the other hand, there's no use for panic. Listeria is also rare among pregnant women. There are about two cases per 1,000.

https://www.swissmom.ch/schwangersch...en/listeriose/

None of us can say if your baby has been affected. Please see your doctor to get relief because you are not going to find it here.
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Old 04.06.2021, 23:26
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

I'm not overreacting, nor am I panicking. I am pointing out that your first reply (and then your second as well) were patronising. I am also not looking to a forum for "relief" and I do not need to see my doctor. I asked a simple question about chocolate. And I commented about yoghurt in response to your own comment that it was healthy. I am also well aware that listeria is rare, and I didn't ask for your advice on that either, not did I ask you or anyone whether my baby had been affected by it. I said that I didn't want to make the same mistake again in the future. I simply asked if chocolate and ice-cream contained pasteurised milk, which some people have helpfully answered without feeling the need to lecture me or offer advice about things that I didn't ask for.

Last edited by Sileas; 04.06.2021 at 23:37.
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Old 04.06.2021, 23:33
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

And yes, thank you for another condescending post. I do understand the difference between cooked and uncooked, but I don't know the details of the chocolate-making process.

Honestly, it was a simple question. I really don't understand why people need to be so unpleasant. You could just have said, "No need to consider it, as the process for making it treats it the same way as the pasteurisation process." The snide remarks are really unnecessary but thank you all the same.
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Old 04.06.2021, 23:39
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

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It is almost impossible to buy any chocolate made with real milk here......
Läderach

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You DO realize that chocolate is cooked, don't you?

Tom
Yeah, I was gonna mention that too.

Generally, it is actually pretty difficult for people who want to buy unpasteurized products to find them here. So chances/risks to buy them by mistake are kind of slim, would you be so kind and tell us which product you bought in which supermarket?
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Old 04.06.2021, 23:41
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

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So now I am really paranoid.
Congratulations on your pregnancy. Seriously. The first baby is a big step.
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Old 04.06.2021, 23:41
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

It was Gruyeres yoghurt, in Coop. I was really surprised, too, as I didn't think you'd be able to buy something unpasteurised in the Coop. But it does not say pasteurised on the tub, and all other yoghurts do. Then someone at work told me that it was unpasteurised and should be avoided during pregnancy.

Last edited by Sileas; 04.06.2021 at 23:51. Reason: Tried to attach an image of the tub, but can't see how to upload one.
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Old 05.06.2021, 00:01
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

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I'm not sure why you're sharing this? The reason why they tell you not to eat raw milk is because of the risk of listeria, which the heat process removes (as per your article). Pregnant women are at much higher risk of listeria because of changes to the immune system. Listeria bacterial infections cause miscarriages, birth defects and still births in babies even though it often doesn't affect the mother more than a light infection. It's pretty serious, so raw milk is fine when not pregnant, but I will definitely be avoiding as best I can while pregnant.
You are absolutely right with you actions. It is completely reasonable to avoid unnecessary risks and reduce stress factors.

I shared this article to provide you with with some perspective on how the raw milk production in Switzerland is controlled and how the HACCP concept helps with its safety (which improves in the later years, unlike with packed cheeses, deli meats and plants, which are held to a lower standard of safety in processing and distribution facilities).

It is possible to get listeria from many foods (basically any fruits and vegetables, meat, milk (even pasteurized))[*], and here you have statistically greater chances of getting listerosis and salmonellosis from deli meat, cheeses, fruits and vegetables, than from a fresh raw milk or an unpasteurized yogurt with an ultra short shelf life (which, by the way, may be both a yogurt made from a raw milk, or a yogurt made from a pasteurized milk and packed in a clean environment without additional pasteurization to keep yogurt bacteria alive - latter is mostly the case). Cows themself do not spread listeria, milk can get it only during processing, shipping and storage, if those are done improperly and in a contaminated environment.
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Old 05.06.2021, 00:10
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

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It was Gruyeres yoghurt, in Coop. I was really surprised, too, as I didn't think you'd be able to buy something unpasteurised in the Coop. But it does not say pasteurised on the tub, and all other yoghurts do. Then someone at work told me that it was unpasteurised and should be avoided during pregnancy.
Well, if it was this one, it is clearly declared here that the milk used is pasteurized!

So if it was this yoghurt, yes it was worth starting this thread for you .... go have an other yoghurt and sleep at ease!
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Old 05.06.2021, 00:25
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

I sent my sister who is recently pregnant a 4.5Kg bar of toblerone
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Old 05.06.2021, 00:28
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

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I sent my sister who is recently pregnant a 4.5Kg bar of toblerone
You thought if she needs to go fat, she might as well do it in style?
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Old 05.06.2021, 01:34
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Re: Pregnancy and Chocolate - is it safe to eat here?

If ice cream use real milk and not powder (which I guess takes high temperatures), so homemade ice cream and those in good ice cream parlours then it's heated up to I think 70 or 72 deg C and kept there for some minutes, and pasteurization temperature starts at 60.

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Pasteurization of milk, widely practiced in several countries, notably the United States, requires temperatures of about 63° C (145° F) maintained for 30 minutes or, alternatively, heating to a higher temperature, 72° C (162° F), and holding for 15 seconds (and yet higher temperatures for shorter periods of time).
In short, ice cream should be perfectly safe as well.

Of course, as someone mentioned, contamination can happen anytime later in the process, but I don't know if you can protect yourself against that except for relying on brands that make checks vs buying from random lady in the market.
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