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  #41  
Old 14.06.2021, 15:45
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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Growing rice in paddy fields actually causes a lot of CO2 and methane due to organic matter rotting in waterlogged soil.
Which cannot be used to grow much else.

What you have written is correct but even so, the environmental impact per capita of those rice growing countries is still a lot lower than it is in those western countries where wheat and corn are more commonly grown and eaten.

Perhaps those obese Westerners could just eat a bit less and let the locals in the rice growing countries eat what they grow?
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  #42  
Old 14.06.2021, 16:03
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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Which cannot be used to grow much else.

What you have written is correct but even so, the environmental impact per capita of those rice growing countries is still a lot lower than it is in those western countries where wheat and corn are more commonly grown and eaten.

Perhaps those obese Westerners could just eat a bit less and let the locals in the rice growing countries eat what they grow?
Deforestation is the biggest culprit. Replaced afterwards by monoculture. I.e. Oil palm plantations!
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  #43  
Old 14.06.2021, 17:47
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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Perhaps those obese Westerners could just eat a bit less and let the locals in the rice growing countries eat what they grow?
The obese Westerners are trying to lose weight by eating those low-cal prawns grown in the rice paddies. First World Problem gone mad.
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  #44  
Old 14.06.2021, 18:19
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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If someone is genuinely passionate about protecting fish stocks, then not eating anything supplied by the commercial fishing industry, especially those outside of the EU, is the only way to not be a part of the problem. I need to be better about this too.

I also need to watch Seaspiracy so thanks for reminding me!
That is a nice thought but very difficult to put into practice. You can follow several self-imposed rules at most times, but when you eat at restaurant or grab a ready meal or whatever you're out of any control. I try to make more ethical choices as long as my budget is OK with that. I'm afraid most of us can't really afford becoming too "dogmatic" though.
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  #45  
Old 15.06.2021, 01:09
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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That is a nice thought but very difficult to put into practice. You can follow several self-imposed rules at most times, but when you eat at restaurant or grab a ready meal or whatever you're out of any control. I try to make more ethical choices as long as my budget is OK with that. I'm afraid most of us can't really afford becoming too "dogmatic" though.
Im afraid that's a poor excuse. It's perfectly easy to eat in a particular way if you want to. I've been vegan since 2008 (when it was significantly harder than it is now). I was a student at the time and didn't have much cash at all.

You might not *want* to put it into practice but that doesn't make it difficult or expensive.

I knew someone at the time who was allergic to both gluten and dairy and he survived on not much cash too.

Note: im not trying to impose my morals on you, I just think if you believe something do it, and don't make weak excuses. If you don't believe it, fine, but don't kid yourself you do.
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  #46  
Old 19.06.2021, 18:13
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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Im afraid that's a poor excuse. It's perfectly easy to eat in a particular way if you want to. I've been vegan since 2008 (when it was significantly harder than it is now). I was a student at the time and didn't have much cash at all.

You might not *want* to put it into practice but that doesn't make it difficult or expensive.

I knew someone at the time who was allergic to both gluten and dairy and he survived on not much cash too.

Note: im not trying to impose my morals on you, I just think if you believe something do it, and don't make weak excuses. If you don't believe it, fine, but don't kid yourself you do.
In all fairness, I think the only way to avoid contributing to some bad stuff we humans do is to become vegan.

So yeah, moderately concerned probably won't cut it. However, I do believe it is more expensive aaand a little more inconvenient to stick to certain rules in regards to which fish/seafood you buy - how ethical the sources are etc.
Which I try to do, nobody is perfect though. It's not like I eat Asian shrimps every day.
People who adopt certain diets out of health reasons literally have no other options than eliminating those foods.

Last edited by greenmount; 19.06.2021 at 18:47.
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  #47  
Old 19.06.2021, 23:46
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Re: Buying healthy fish

…In Marseille after they modernized sewerage, the renowned Soup de Poisson is hard to make with local fish, as the fishers hardly can find any fish due to lack of food for fish, sewerage is not drained anymore in bay...
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  #48  
Old 20.06.2021, 10:03
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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In all fairness, I think the only way to avoid contributing to some bad stuff we humans do is to become vegan.

So yeah, moderately concerned probably won't cut it. However, I do believe it is more expensive aaand a little more inconvenient to stick to certain rules in regards to which fish/seafood you buy - how ethical the sources are etc.
Which I try to do, nobody is perfect though. It's not like I eat Asian shrimps every day.
People who adopt certain diets out of health reasons literally have no other options than eliminating those foods.
Yeah right. We humans are so bad. Where are all the poor farm animals going to go if we humans don't consume what they produce? Most of em can't survive in the wild. Being a vegan is not going to save the world and wildlife. Feel free to eat palm oil based vegan products from plantations destroying the world. And by the way the shrimps I get don't come from any toxic Asian farm. They come from the wild Atlantic.
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  #49  
Old 20.06.2021, 10:52
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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Yeah right. We humans are so bad. Where are all the poor farm animals going to go if we humans don't consume what they produce? Most of em can't survive in the wild. Being a vegan is not going to save the world and wildlife. Feel free to eat palm oil based vegan products from plantations destroying the world. And by the way the shrimps I get don't come from any toxic Asian farm. They come from the wild Atlantic.
I think you should address your post to HickvonFrick.

Btw, palm oil based vegan products is just one of the negative things, there are quite a few more. I'm glad you get your shrimps from the wild Atlantic, my point was you can never be that sure.

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…In Marseille after they modernized sewerage, the renowned Soup de Poisson is hard to make with local fish, as the fishers hardly can find any fish due to lack of food for fish, sewerage is not drained anymore in bay...
I make fish soup with frozen fish from Portugal when I don't find what I need.
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  #50  
Old 20.06.2021, 11:10
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Re: Buying healthy fish

I have both vegan and keto friends, they're both really certain about what they're doing. However the world gets more complicated when you stop looking at things in a fragmented way.

Avocados are healthy, but there's the mexican gang problem. Making quinoa a superfood? Growers in Peru and Bolivia can no longer afford their food staple.

It's not adequate to just look at it from the health perspective, or just from the ethics perspective. We need to synthesize solutions in a more joined-knowledge approach or else we'll just keep triggering each other's fragmented worldviews... Because they're all kinda technically correct from their own perspective. Problem is the intention, each side just want to preach and to be right.

And there are many "food deserts" in the world, poor communities with no car and no supermarkets within a mile, anything walkable distance are kiosks selling mars bars and fizzy drinks. I don't think it's always just an excuse.

Recently watched a video with counter-arguments against cowspiracy:
https://youtu.be/SdrhpThqlCo

Living in our times I think it's important to learn the art of thinking clearly, we all already want an answer, but in practice we just gotta make adjustments along the way... and be nice!
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  #51  
Old 20.06.2021, 11:16
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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I have both vegan and keto friends, they're both really certain about what they're doing. However the world gets more complicated when you stop looking at things in a fragmented way.

Avocados are healthy, but there's the mexican gang problem. Making quinoa a superfood? Growers in Peru and Bolivia can no longer afford their food staple.

It's not adequate to just look at it from the health perspective, or just from the ethics perspective. We need to synthesize solutions in a more joined-knowledge approach or else we'll just keep triggering each other's fragmented worldviews... Because they're all kinda technically correct from their own perspective. Problem is the intention, each side just want to preach and to be right.

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Living in our times I think it's important to learn the art of thinking clearly, we all already want an answer, but in practice we just gotta make adjustments along the way... and be nice!
True! Be nice is perhaps too much to ask (I mean I defo lost hope for this lol), people will always think their way is the best way.
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  #52  
Old 20.06.2021, 11:34
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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Living in our times I think it's important to learn the art of thinking clearly, we all already want an answer, but in practice we just gotta make adjustments along the way... and be nice!
Yeah! One day we'll get it straight.
Here is a vision of our future: https://youtu.be/VfrShu_Lp2A
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  #53  
Old 20.06.2021, 11:39
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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I have both vegan and keto friends, they're both really certain about what they're doing. However the world gets more complicated when you stop looking at things in a fragmented way.

Avocados are healthy, but there's the mexican gang problem. Making quinoa a superfood? Growers in Peru and Bolivia can no longer afford their food staple.

It's not adequate to just look at it from the health perspective, or just from the ethics perspective. We need to synthesize solutions in a more joined-knowledge approach or else we'll just keep triggering each other's fragmented worldviews... Because they're all kinda technically correct from their own perspective. Problem is the intention, each side just want to preach and to be right.

And there are many "food deserts" in the world, poor communities with no car and no supermarkets within a mile, anything walkable distance are kiosks selling mars bars and fizzy drinks. I don't think it's always just an excuse.

Recently watched a video with counter-arguments against cowspiracy:
https://youtu.be/SdrhpThqlCo

Living in our times I think it's important to learn the art of thinking clearly, we all already want an answer, but in practice we just gotta make adjustments along the way... and be nice!
Increasing prices of their local crop can only be good for the local economy even if it means they have to switch grains.
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  #54  
Old 20.06.2021, 12:02
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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Increasing prices of their local crop can only be good for the local economy even if it means they have to switch grains.
In principle yes but it depends for whom exactly in the local economy. For instance quinoa farmers in Peru have relatively small plots of lands which means they have little bargaining power.
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  #55  
Old 20.06.2021, 12:36
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Re: Buying healthy fish

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I'm currently under impression of this documentary briefly speaking about shocking practices in the fish farming industry (both in Europe & Asia): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYYf8cLUV5E

Therefore I'm starting to wonder if you are aware of that issue and if so in which places are you buying a wild / likely healthy fish? Assuming that you eat fish, of course.
Good documentary, thanks for sharing. I am aware and stopped eating farmed salmon around 10 years ago. Wild smoked salmon can be found easily enough and is available year round. It tends to be Sockeye and Coho varieties from Alaska. Fresh wild salmon is trickier to find but occasionally pops up on the fish counter.

You can find a decent selection of wild fish in France. It's hard to know how fresh these fish are because boats can be out a few days at sea etc. However, I've had good luck sourcing large wild Dorade (gilt-headed bream) in the middle of the week that tasted absolutely fantastic and comparable to fish I've eaten during island holidays that are 'straight from the sea'. I recommend whole fish that haven't been gutted. Look for clear, bulging eyes, i.e. not cloudy and sunken.
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