RWC 2011 thread

[parnell]

	Quote:	roostermike
	LOL! Agree, except I prefer to call it pushing the envelope (thuggery). Bakkies is, but you got to admit that Bissie is arguably the best Hooker in World rugby at the moment.

Hey if you're asking me if I'd love to have BdP in my team then sure but I'd have the opinion "He may be a thug but he's OUR thug!" - I've seen the guy in action - he's fantastically physical - which means that I've tremendous respect for the guy - I just dislike the dirty elements that are (France excepted - they used to be the filthiest players) a part of his game.
EDIT : Ok total capitulation - if he wasn't a guy who was prone to play dirty then yes BdP is the best hooker in world rugby by a margin.

My view - (and I played 7 mostly) is play as hard as physically possible but never ever engage intentionally in something that is very likely to injure another player.

[roostermike]

	Quote:	parnell
	Hey if you're asking me if I'd love to have BdP in my team then sure but I'd have the opinion "He may be a thug but he's OUR thug!" - I've seen the guy in action - he's fantastically physical - which means that I've tremendous respect for the guy - I just dislike the dirty elements that are (France excepted - they used to be the filthiest players) a part of his game. EDIT : Ok total capitulation - if he wasn't a guy who was prone to play dirty then yes BdP is the best hooker in world rugby by a margin. My view - (and I played 7 mostly) is play as hard as physically possible but never ever engage intentionally in something that is very likely to injure another player.

I agree. But, as he plays for my team (he is our thug, mind you), I am a little more willing to forgive him for that. Shame though, just the same.

Btw, have a look at this link. It's a preview of the Ire-Aus game done by Eddie Jones (including Jake White, who set up the website). Interesting.

http://www.rugbyxv.co.za/coaches-cor...reland-preview

[parnell]

	Quote:	roostermike
	I agree. But, as he plays for my team (he is our thug, mind you), I am a little more willing to forgive him for that. Shame though, just the same. Btw, have a look at this link. It's a preview of the Ire-Aus game done by Eddie Jones (including Jake White, who set up the website). Interesting. http://www.rugbyxv.co.za/coaches-cor...reland-preview

That's fair enough mate - I always enjoy folks who can see their own for what they are - I mean Irish lads trying to defend John Hayes' scrummaging just made me see red...

Thanks for the link - that's a very kind analysis to Ireland in my opinion - but I respect both White & Jones.

Ireland have a very heavy hitting backrow for the game - all ball carriers but no groundhog to counteract Pocock - put mildly if the breakdown is not reffed properly we haven't a hope , if it is we could do damage.

Maybe we will go out all guns blazing - but Ferris has to stay fit for the entire game - which is a long shot - and Best has to hit his darts - also a long shot.... add all the long shots up together and it's not very likely but for me at least something to hope for.

[swans1984]

	Quote:	Kinhorngreen
	Short answer - YES. And not just for the one incident. He went into many tackles with the clear intention to hurt the other person. It is one thing to be competitive, it is another to be vindictive and to deliberately try and injure the opposition player. I think he should consider himself lucky that it was ONLY two weeks.....

Very harsh decision and tahts coming from a Welshman, The first tackle was a fantastic tackle a bit late but he was committed, from a young age i was told to target the player maker and get him off the field as most teams do.

The second one is a strange one did he or did he not mean to do it, my opinion no he didnt.
Harsh ban, On a great up and coming player. Remember playing against him 4 years back and he was a brute and a bully then.

[roostermike]

	Quote:	parnell
	That's fair enough mate - I always enjoy folks who can see their own for what they are - I mean Irish lads trying to defend John Hayes' scrummaging just made me see red... Thanks for the link - that's a very kind analysis to Ireland in my opinion - but I respect both White & Jones. Ireland have a very heavy hitting backrow for the game - all ball carriers but no groundhog to counteract Pocock - put mildly if the breakdown is not reffed properly we haven't a hope , if it is we could do damage. Maybe we will go out all guns blazing - but Ferris has to stay fit for the entire game - which is a long shot - and Best has to hit his darts - also a long shot.... add all the long shots up together and it's not very likely but for me at least something to hope for.

True, you guys don't really have a Pocock counter measure. We are pretty lucky in that we have Heinrich Brüssouw, in my view the best fetcher in the business. Although I was mighty impressed with his counterpart in the Welsh game, need to check who he is though. He played very well and matched Brüssow on the day (although Brüssow's job was made a little more difficult as he lacked any decent support...).

[magnamax]

Ireland play with lots of fetchers, the notion that we don't have anyone to turnover opposition ball is nonsense. Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Cian Healy, and of course BOD, are all superb at the jackal. The difference is of course that we will have SOB playing 7, where he will be less visible in terms of carries. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make 5 turnovers and be described as having a "quiet game" the next day, as press only see the line breaks and big hits.

[Rugbylad]

Australia look good, South Africa are stuttering and NZ are looking good till they take their eye off the ball which they did in the 2nd half v Tonga.
England just dont have the depth this time, but I would love to be proven wrong!

[parnell]

	Quote:	roostermike
	True, you guys don't really have a Pocock counter measure. We are pretty lucky in that we have Heinrich Brüssouw, in my view the best fetcher in the business. Although I was mighty impressed with his counterpart in the Welsh game, need to check who he is though. He played very well and matched Brüssow on the day (although Brüssow's job was made a little more difficult as he lacked any decent support...).

Sam Warburton

[Carlos R]

The Welsh are a funny team. I look at the individual players and out of all the 6N, they probably have the most whom I am "worried" about when we (England) play them.

I rate Hook very highly, he's always dangerous with ball in hand, combined with Roberts and Priestland all making a useful central platform, add Shane W and North on either wing and you have some very handy backs. In their new captain Warburton they've found a gem. The rest aren't too bad either, but the guys I mentioned are the ones you worry about when they get the ball, yet they just seem to not make the sum of their parts, let alone exceed it.

I think Gatland's done a grand job, but his managerial peak was prob about 12-18 months ago. They need someone to take the team to the next level and consistently challenge the top teams.

[Caleb]

Argentina-Romania: you guys know I'm not impartial, but WHAT A GAME !!! The Pumas rocked. With 3 of our top players injured (including the captain) we beat Romania 43-8.

Hats-off to the Romanians, who took a beating from the first minute but kept running the ball, playing a good game overall and fighting to the last second of the game with outstanding dignity.

I wish we'll play at the same level against Scotland, which certainly puts the Pumas in the knockouts.

[parnell]

	Quote:	roostermike
	True, you guys don't really have a Pocock counter measure. We are pretty lucky in that we have Heinrich Brüssouw, in my view the best fetcher in the business. Although I was mighty impressed with his counterpart in the Welsh game, need to check who he is though. He played very well and matched Brüssow on the day (although Brüssow's job was made a little more difficult as he lacked any decent support...).

Pocock and Moore out...

we have a (small) chance

[tom tulpe]

	Quote:	parnell
	Pocock and Moore out... we have a (small) chance

Not if you step into touch all the time (00:05).
Oh and Healy's right in it as well (01:04).

And I can't stand the ITV commentary on that, so off to France 2. See you later.

[ngoamlb]

Good result for the Irish - shame i was watching on internet in work rather than an irish pub somewhere - i bet there as good atmosphere at the minute

[Upthehatters2008]

Ireland you beauts ! Throw another Aussie team on the barbie...

[Carlos R]

England oh England. Pull a finger out, eh lads?

The old suck it up for 60 minutes and try to win in the last 20 works for poor opposition, but in the top 10 teams that's not an effective strategy. It certainly won't work against likely opponents in the knock-out stages and is reminiscent of the poor poor rugby we had to watch not so long ago.

Good teams start with a bang and go on as they mean to. Once they have a margin, they let their foot off the gas.

As for the penalties - sheesh, you'd have thought they'd have a bit more brain... Why oh why do they keep on repeating the same mistakes?

[tom tulpe]

	Quote:	Carlos R
	As for the penalties - sheesh, you'd have thought they'd have a bit more brain... Why oh why do they keep on repeating the same mistakes?

Because they keep bleating about how the ref got it all wrong ("We have no chance with a SH ref" - "NZ do it all the time and get away with it." - "Look he was just unlucky with these tackles, such a shame <cough> for the guys who can no longer take part in the tournemant but might not have played their last competitive game of Rugby after all.") and hope that this will somehow influence the refs in the later stages of the competition.

[PaddyG]

	Quote:	Carlos R
	As for the penalties - sheesh, you'd have thought they'd have a bit more brain... Why oh why do they keep on repeating the same mistakes?

I grit my teeth every time the balls goes into the contact area with England. Invariably ends up a penalty against for hands/off feet/coming in from the side/not rolling away/holding on. It's not sodding rocket science . Seems some half-time talking had the desired effect though, the pen count was improved after the break, I think. Why can't we start like that?

Having said that, I thought the Georgians played a great tight game, and just ran out of steam. I would really like to see some kind of play-off for promotion/relegation from the 6N; teams like Georgia would surely benefit from playing the 6N teams more regularly; I think they are better now than Italy were when they first took part.

Hats off to the Irish, great performance and a great result. I thought O'Brien and Heaslip were excellent.

[Caviarchips]

	Quote:	tom tulpe
	Because they keep bleating about how the ref got it all wrong ("We have no chance with a SH ref" - "NZ do it all the time and get away with it." - "Look he was just unlucky with these tackles, such a shame <cough> for the guys who can no longer take part in the tournemant but might not have played their last competitive game of Rugby after all.") and hope that this will somehow influence the refs in the later stages of the competition.

I'm a qualified Ref (not to a high standard) and many of those things were freakin' obvious...I'd have penalised them at Balsall 4ths vs Stratford 5ths! Hands in the ruck right in front of the referee is just crazy and deserved the yellow card for stupidity if nothing else.

In terms of the "rolling away when tackled" rule, that one is clearly interpreted slightly differently and is a little more subjective BUT a smart team will start the game being cautious, rolling away quickly and making sure that the ref sees it and knows that they know the rules and will play to his interpretation....and THEN start taking the p*ss when he is on your side, NOT vice versa, because then he will be watching every single time!

[Carlos R]

	Quote:	tom tulpe
	Because they keep bleating about how the ref got it all wrong...

Ha. That's not what MJ was saying post match...

I don't think so though. They keep on saying the need to play the ref better but fail. Your comment could be excused if the got it wrong a few times, then change tactics, but both this match and last, the ended up having a player sin-binned for repeated offences.

Sure there's the pre-match psycho-babble, but during the match, you should play the ref that's on the pitch. Give away 2-3 penalties fine before you get the gauge of the ref, but 15!?! Talk about slow learners...

	Quote:	Caviarchips
	In terms of the "rolling away when tackled" rule, that one is clearly interpreted slightly differently and is a little more subjective BUT a smart team will start the game being cautious, rolling away quickly and making sure that the ref sees it and knows that they know the rules and will play to his interpretation....and THEN start taking the p*ss when he is on your side, NOT vice versa, because then he will be watching every single time!

Bingo - play the ref!

[tom tulpe]

	Quote:	Carlos R
	Ha. That's not what MJ was saying post match...

That's more or less what the press (and the usual pundits) say. I agree though that back in real life, they should look more to themselves and less to the ref.