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  #21  
Old 21.04.2021, 11:54
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Re: European Super League

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I think fans have been losing interest for years. It's a long term timescale.

The kids I talk to have very little interest in football. Quite different to what things were like when I was at school.

I don't think more goals or more expensive players are going to fix that.
I think you are looking at it from a European perspective. The growth is coming from Asia, from kids that have no local connection to the teams.

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The game needs more parity to be exciting and you need cost and revenue certainty to achieve that.
Not at the cost of losing the risk of relegation and promotion and taking away the underdog fights.

The only reason the owners want revenue certainty is to increase the earnings multiple on their asset. This has nothing to do with making the game more exciting.
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  #22  
Old 21.04.2021, 12:08
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Re: European Super League

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The growth is coming from Asia, from kids that have no local connection to the teams.
But, unless those kids become adults that pay tickets, t-shirts and TV/streaming subscriptions for life, that income growth is just a mirage. Kids may just go after the next shiny thing since they have no local connections to the teams.

Also, the US NBA already had problems because of some random tweets about Hong Kong. I'll have some popcorn ready to see reaction of the local fans that fill up the stadiums when a football player or coach has to apologize for offending the sensibilities of the people in China.
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  #23  
Old 21.04.2021, 12:30
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Re: European Super League

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UEFA, based in Nyon, isn’t taxed either.

If all the tax free sports organisations were taxed 1% of their revenue, we could do away with income taxes countrywide.
Why is UEFA untaxed? Is it considered a charity?

Taxing them on revenue would be unfair, but why are they not taxed as a regular company? They clearly are ... (although I would argue the same for all mega large charities in the world: eg WWF, Unicef etc.)
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  #24  
Old 21.04.2021, 12:40
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Re: European Super League

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The NHL (National Hockey League) implemented a salary cap and revenue sharing agreement in 2005 and since then league wide revenues have more than doubled from $2.3 bn in 2005 to $5 bn in 2019 and average viewership of the Stanley Cup finals jumped from 3 m fans/game to 5 m fans/game in the same period. The salary cap has gone up each year (more money for players) and the games are more exciting as no one team can load up on all the star players and the playoffs are great as almost any team who qualifies has a chance of winning.

Contrast that to football where its PSG, Bayern, Juventus and Real/Barca who win their domestic leagues year in year out and even the EPL has become stale with Leicester being the only odd team to win it.

The game needs more parity to be exciting and you need cost and revenue certainty to achieve that.
One huge difference is that by and large the US fan does not have the same level of team allegiance as the European football fan. US teams move cities, change names, etc and life continues. I recall being at a hockey game in the mid-west. The Wild lost and as we left the arena everyone was very casual about it, walking to the parking lot, finishing their popcorn, etc. Walk away from any football match and the fans are upset the local team lost, calling names, pissed about the referees, etc. It's much more emotional

Only the owners who sit in the boxes don't understand this

Having said that I do think a salary cap makes sense. A transfer cap should also be in place and it shouldn't be a % of revenue... UEFA has implemented the Fair Play policy but it is bullshit with no club really penalized if they fail the sniff test.
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  #25  
Old 21.04.2021, 13:08
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Re: European Super League

I will sit on a fence with a popcorn to see an epic gachimuchi struggle between a toad and a viper. No one will win, but the fans mental state will be disturbed.

On a personal note: I dropped out from The Pensioners sector the day it was sold to a Putin's proxy, so no love lost here. It is my opinion, that if Chelsea Pitch Owners will be capable to show a smallest bit of decency, they will challenge the existing naming rights lease and the lease for Stanford Bridge, if the current owner will attempt to exit Premier League. But they had no guts for it in 2003, so why would they discover it now?
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  #26  
Old 21.04.2021, 13:24
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Re: European Super League

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Why is UEFA untaxed? Is it considered a charity?

Taxing them on revenue would be unfair, but why are they not taxed as a regular company? They clearly are ... (although I would argue the same for all mega large charities in the world: eg WWF, Unicef etc.)
They are an international non-governmental, not-for-profit organisation in the form of an association according to Swiss law and is domiciled in Nyon, Switzerland. This type of entities not only avoid any direct taxation, but also allow many of associated commercial companies to avoid taxes under a questionable premise of working for the purpose of international non-governmental, not-for-profit oranizations.

For example, treat yourself with reading this very simple question to EuroParl, which, to my knowledge, got no meaningful answer. Arguably but frequently evident, most regions take a gross loss from the actions of similar organisations (UEFA, FIFA, IOC etc.)
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  #27  
Old 21.04.2021, 13:45
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Re: European Super League

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One huge difference is that by and large the US fan does not have the same level of team allegiance as the European football fan. US teams move cities, change names, etc and life continues. I recall being at a hockey game in the mid-west. The Wild lost and as we left the arena everyone was very casual about it, walking to the parking lot, finishing their popcorn, etc. Walk away from any football match and the fans are upset the local team lost, calling names, pissed about the referees, etc. It's much more emotional
I've always wondered why American sports fans are so much more civilized than European ones (and this despite Americans getting so excited about their sports). For example none of the US stadiums I have been to had any form of security fencing so it would be quite easy for fans to invade the pitch at any time. Otherwise security was also very lapse. A lot of litter did get dropped but that's about where the unruliness stopped. Whereas European stadiums are totally vandal proof and would probably survive a nuclear war, the American ones I saw looked as if a sufficiently angry mob could easily have pulled them to pieces in minutes.

I also found it strange to see the lyrics of fan songs displayed on screens (how can any self-respecting fan not know the songs?) and that people were actually singing the official lyrics rather than rude versions.

Americans will never cease to amaze me.
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  #28  
Old 21.04.2021, 13:51
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Re: European Super League

Their revenues not earned in Switzerland are exempt from communal, cantonal and Federal taxes. But they do generate ancillary revenues by being given this status. Their employees all pay income tax and they purchase goods and services to support their HQ’s. By being here they generate revenues for Swiss restaurants, hotels and airlines.
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  #29  
Old 21.04.2021, 13:56
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Re: European Super League

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I've always wondered why American sports fans are so much more civilized than European ones (and this despite Americans getting so excited about their sports). For example none of the US stadiums I have been to had any form of security fencing so it would be quite easy for fans to invade the pitch at any time. Otherwise security was also very lapse. A lot of litter did get dropped but that's about where the unruliness stopped. Whereas European stadiums are totally vandal proof and would probably survive a nuclear war, the American ones I saw looked as if a sufficiently angry mob could easily have pulled them to pieces in minutes.

I also found it strange to see the lyrics of fan songs displayed on screens (how can any self-respecting fan not know the songs?) and that people were actually singing the official lyrics rather than rude versions.

Americans will never cease to amaze me.
Sport is a big business there. It feeds many schools there. It's a serious thing.

You don't see many churches vandalized there, much. Only some statues.
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  #30  
Old 21.04.2021, 14:26
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Re: European Super League

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But, unless those kids become adults that pay tickets, t-shirts and TV/streaming subscriptions for life, that income growth is just a mirage. Kids may just go after the next shiny thing since they have no local connections to the teams.

Also, the US NBA already had problems because of some random tweets about Hong Kong. I'll have some popcorn ready to see reaction of the local fans that fill up the stadiums when a football player or coach has to apologize for offending the sensibilities of the people in China.
Tickets are a bit of a red herring tbh, at least ironically enough for the American owned clubs - Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal. They all have large stadiums that can‘t be substantially expanded and could fill them twice over for every game. The merchandise is already being bought (birthday presents etc.) and it seems like there was already a plan for the tv rights at least in the short to medium turn.
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  #31  
Old 21.04.2021, 14:46
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Re: European Super League

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Also, the US NBA already had problems because of some random tweets about Hong Kong. I'll have some popcorn ready to see reaction of the local fans that fill up the stadiums when a football player or coach has to apologize for offending the sensibilities of the people in China.
There was a time that footballers were lose cannons and if they dropped some inappropriate political or whatever statement, people would have shrugged and put it down to sportspeople just being like that, and would maybe have giggled a little and then told them to shut up and stop embarrassing themselves and to get back to kicking that ball around.

These days even sports people and clubs need to be afraid of being cancelled which is why you get all this kneeling stuff. Everything that can be politicized must be politicized and then the bosses are surprised when fans vote with their feet.
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  #32  
Old 21.04.2021, 14:51
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Re: European Super League

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There was a time that footballers were lose cannons and if they dropped some inappropriate political or whatever statement, people would have shrugged and put it down to sportspeople just being like that, and would maybe have giggled a little and then told them to shut up and stop embarrassing themselves and to get back to kicking that ball around.

These days even sports people and clubs need to be afraid of being cancelled which is why you get all this kneeling stuff. Everything that can be politicized must be politicized and then they are surprised when fans vote with their feet.
Am I old fashioned if I say boycott as is South Africa boycott or Israel boycott? Or should I adopt the neologism about being cancelled and keep going with my life?
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  #33  
Old 21.04.2021, 14:52
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Re: European Super League

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I've always wondered why American sports fans are so much more civilized than European ones (and this despite Americans getting so excited about their sports). For example none of the US stadiums I have been to had any form of security fencing so it would be quite easy for fans to invade the pitch at any time. Otherwise security was also very lapse. A lot of litter did get dropped but that's about where the unruliness stopped. Whereas European stadiums are totally vandal proof and would probably survive a nuclear war, the American ones I saw looked as if a sufficiently angry mob could easily have pulled them to pieces in minutes.

I also found it strange to see the lyrics of fan songs displayed on screens (how can any self-respecting fan not know the songs?) and that people were actually singing the official lyrics rather than rude versions.

Americans will never cease to amaze me.
Not sure what your experience has been but civilized is not how I would describe how unruly it can get in the US. NBA games are mostly lowkey atmospheres, MLB you can argue are quite boring but NHL & NFL are places you should think twice about going with a family

On the flip side, I have been to football matches in Switzerland and Barcelona and it has only been a family like atmosphere
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  #34  
Old 21.04.2021, 14:53
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Re: European Super League

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Am I old fashioned if I say boycott as is South Africa boycott or Israel boycott? Or should I adopt the neologism about being cancelled and keep going with my life?
If you want to boycott football as in boycott South Africa, you stay at home or go play tennis instead.

Kneeling while getting payed your full salary is not a boycott.
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  #35  
Old 21.04.2021, 14:55
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Re: European Super League

Don't Drink & Start a League
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  #36  
Old 21.04.2021, 15:00
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Re: European Super League

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If you want to boycott football as in boycott South Africa, you stay at home or go play tennis instead.

Kneeling while getting payed your full salary is not a boycott.
I mean the fans/consumers boycotting, nothing new.
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