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  #41  
Old 14.02.2011, 10:22
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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Online Gambling is specifically prohibited in http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/935_52/a5.html
Then what about SwissLotto.???
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  #42  
Old 14.02.2011, 11:08
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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Then what about SwissLotto.???
The lottery is a subcategory of gambling (Glücksspiel) and is regulated with the lottery law. More info on this on the COMLOT site (supervising body for lottery market)..

regarding the link I posted earlier mentioning hyperlinks. It's not really clear as the page says "depending on the circumstances in the individual case the following will be prosecuted..." and the page which EF is advertising does not seem to be an online casino, rather a site which is advertising online casinos, soo..grey area maybe.
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  #43  
Old 20.02.2011, 17:21
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

Ok. I has been two weeks now since I brought this issue up. Yes yes, Uncle Max, we know you have forwarded it to the owners. But I cannot help to get the impression that they are attempting to sit it out rather than to give an answer. Any answer would be welcome, any life sign at all...
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  #44  
Old 20.02.2011, 17:23
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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Any answer would be welcome
What was the question again?
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  #45  
Old 20.02.2011, 17:27
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

No, seriously, what is the question?

I don't see any question in your original post, other some rhetoric about "what next?" which is unanswerable.

It's highly unlikely porn will ever be advertised. Financial advice, possibly.
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  #46  
Old 20.02.2011, 17:29
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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What was the question again?
We have advertisement for online casinos on the start page. This advertisement is illegal in Switzerland. Your website is registered in Switzerland. Get the picture?

Original question was: Are you aware that you are doing something illegal here?

New question: Do you have any plans to stop advertising online gambling or do you plan to continue till you get into legal troubles?

When you were bullied by some private company, you were much faster to pull a very important thread from the forum. Looks like this ads are more valuable than the content.
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  #47  
Old 20.02.2011, 17:31
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

We've had no legal troubles with the advert, nor do we expect any. We don't intend to pull the ad.
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  #48  
Old 20.02.2011, 17:42
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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We've had no legal troubles with the advert, nor do we expect any. We don't intend to pull the ad.
Ignorance is no excuse. But all necessary info was posted already, I will not discuss "why you better follow the laws"... your choice.

Edit: As I have seen that you have the same banner on toytown, I'll give you a hint: Advertising an online casino is going to cost you in Germany as well - no, not Euros but up to one year for the "Verantwortliche im Sinne des Presserechts" of the website. I hope that's not you. Otherwise I'd talk to my boss.

The info, written by a lawyer specializing in gambling laws: http://www.gluecksspiel-und-recht.de...-homepage.html

Last edited by Treverus; 20.02.2011 at 18:00.
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  #49  
Old 20.02.2011, 21:38
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

I doubt they would get into any trouble.
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  #50  
Old 21.02.2011, 11:24
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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I doubt they would get into any trouble.
That'll be useful in court.
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  #51  
Old 21.02.2011, 14:08
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

Maybe I’m getting “worked up” about nothing, I don’t have to look at the homepage and I don’t really know the details about what the advertised site does. No one has to read this post either.

Anyway…The ESBK has published some cases on their site. The one against Mr. Y, owner of the site P.ch, is an interesting read. Again there seems to be one more step in between here as the site advertised here does not seem to be an online casino itself. I have no idea where zion is located but if it were Switzerland the case of Mr. Y suggests that they would face some problems…I guess…
Back to Mr. Y. He has been found guilty for organising gambling (Glücksspiel) outside the framework of licensed casinos (Spielbanken) by providing direct access (hypertextlinks) to the online poker platforms xyz. (it is being stated that setting the hyperlinks is considered a minor contribution to organising, but still..). The money he earned through affiliate programs was seen as money from punishable activity.

Again the case of Mr. Y. is of course different. I really don’t know how difficult it is to find advertisement partners and I get that money has to be made (to cover the costs and…) but for me, the question remains if a respectable company wants to associate itself with such a site.

In the case against Y. it is also being stated that he could have contacted the relevant authority beforehand…and not just read about gambling laws and then claim he couldn’t have possibly known.
Another guess.. that is a really good idea.


(Y's case, only available in german)
http://www.esbk.admin.ch/content/dam...-07-046-01.pdf


..Maybe someone could inform "them" that both points are not correct "The government does not seem concerned, and there is nothing in the books to change the ban in either direction."

Last edited by jj muge; 21.02.2011 at 14:14. Reason: from punishable activity..
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  #52  
Old 21.02.2011, 20:04
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

Treverus, I suppose what I'm missing in all of this is why the righteous indignation? Why do you care? It's not your site, it's not exactly offensive to the eye. If it's illegal then you've done your bit. You won't get into trouble. So what's up?
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  #53  
Old 21.02.2011, 22:33
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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Treverus, I suppose what I'm missing in all of this is why the righteous indignation? Why do you care? It's not your site, it's not exactly offensive to the eye. If it's illegal then you've done your bit. You won't get into trouble. So what's up?
I've stayed out of this thread, apart from thanking where I agreed with certain posters, and I can't speak for Treverus, but I don't read his comments as being so indignant with the advertising per se, but as much with the reaction, rather, lack of reaction, from Editor Bob. We had the same lack of response on the "How do you like the look of the new home page" thread.

I for one feel slightly uncomfortable, and I imagine Treverus may too, with the fact that the owners of EF are trying to earn money from advertising, not just to cover the running costs of the forum, but also to make a profit, from advertising what looks like could be illegal activities. At best it's a seriously dark grey area and Treverus should be thanked by the Admin for raising this point, instead of being ignored for weeks then finally given a rather sarcastic "what was the question again?" comment from Editor Bob.

This site is successful as a forum because of the content donated FOC by highly respectedusers such as Treverus and he has a perfect right to feel uncomfortable with the fact that his contribution to this site might be supporting illegal activities, and making some sort of profit from the promoting of such activities, by the owners of EF.

I have seen a few threads bemoaning the lack of courtesy, as well as rudeness and bad manners from some EF veterans towards newbies over the last few days. To me, some of the rudest behaviour has come from Editor Bob. On this thread, but especially on the announcement of the new look home page where he ignored all constructive and critical input and, as far as I remember, didn't even acknowledge that input.

I may be completely wrong here (I haven't been around much lately and I'm very over tired), but I feel this forum right now needs an admin who is committed to directing the forum content wise, rather than just revenue generation. A little good manners and direct input from EB would also go a long way to getting this place back to where I feel it deserves to be.
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  #54  
Old 21.02.2011, 23:08
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

EF aren't running a gambling website - just a forum with a bit of advertising. I'm too lazy to read the links to law, but I'd be surprised if this is illegal. If it really bothers you, just do it the Swiss way and shop EF to the police - I doubt they would care though.
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  #55  
Old 21.02.2011, 23:43
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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I've stayed out of this thread, apart from thanking where I agreed with certain posters, and I can't speak for Treverus, but I don't read his comments as being so indignant with the advertising per se, but as much with the reaction, rather, lack of reaction, from Editor Bob. We had the same lack of response on the "How do you like the look of the new home page" thread.

I for one feel slightly uncomfortable, and I imagine Treverus may too, with the fact that the owners of EF are trying to earn money from advertising, not just to cover the running costs of the forum, but also to make a profit, from advertising what looks like could be illegal activities. At best it's a seriously dark grey area and Treverus should be thanked by the Admin for raising this point, instead of being ignored for weeks then finally given a rather sarcastic "what was the question again?" comment from Editor Bob.

This site is successful as a forum because of the content donated FOC by highly respectedusers such as Treverus and he has a perfect right to feel uncomfortable with the fact that his contribution to this site might be supporting illegal activities, and making some sort of profit from the promoting of such activities, by the owners of EF.

I have seen a few threads bemoaning the lack of courtesy, as well as rudeness and bad manners from some EF veterans towards newbies over the last few days. To me, some of the rudest behaviour has come from Editor Bob. On this thread, but especially on the announcement of the new look home page where he ignored all constructive and critical input and, as far as I remember, didn't even acknowledge that input.

I may be completely wrong here (I haven't been around much lately and I'm very over tired), but I feel this forum right now needs an admin who is committed to directing the forum content wise, rather than just revenue generation. A little good manners and direct input from EB would also go a long way to getting this place back to where I feel it deserves to be.
OK, all good points. However I actually like the lack of involvement from the "admin"/owners. I like that it's run with commercial detachment and that the mods are left to get on with the content side of things. I think they do a fantastic job without active leadership and I much prefer an oligarchy than a monarchy. If Editor Bob spent more time reading all these threads, responding, being a part of the community it would compromise his distance and I'm sure it would also serve to undermine what the mods are doing.
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  #56  
Old 22.02.2011, 00:12
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

I think there are those of us who view EF as the "english speaking face" of the Auslander community in Switzerland. Those people, who can from time from time be a bit intolerant of repeated questions or the dreaded how much thread, have a vested interest in the forum and don't want to see even the appearance of impropriety. I'm not a lawyer so I can't judge if EF or the ubiquitous "Local" is walking the legal tight rope or not. But for grins - if it were -- and the EF would then be participating in an illegal affair, it would not look good for our community -- or other Auslanders as well. Give the continued gain in SVP popularity -- do we want to see ourselves on the next referendum poster?

The comments made regarding the lack of an official response are not out of order - and in reality -- the lack of an active, sincere response would make me think that perhaps things are on the up and up.

But what do I know?
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  #57  
Old 22.02.2011, 00:23
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

If anyone feels strongly about the issue and feels that the answers are not forthcoming here, there are other contacts on home page: Imprint
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  #58  
Old 22.02.2011, 00:25
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

Actually did GG put it nearly perfectly - I am simply annoyed lately by the lack of care the EF gets by their owners. To Phil and the others: "I am too lazy to read the links, but I don't think its illegal"... just read them, there is no doubt that it is illegal both in Germany as well as Switzerland.

I know it is a cultural difference and this shows me even more that our owners do not care: In Sweden, where our owners are from, gambling is not considered a big deal. I have been in clubs in Stockholm where it is completely normal to have a blackjack table in the corner of the bar and wait till the guests are drunk enough to rip them off. Prostitution on the other hand can get you into jail for quite some time... gues what: It is exactly the other way around here! You can sell your body, but gambling for money is tightly controlled. How tightly? A poker tournament with a main prize on an iPod (!) was visited by 30(!) cops last december. That wasn't an isolated incidence, but actually part of a series of crack downs by the police.
I personally do not care about gambling at all. Go and bet on whatever you like. But I care about EF. And I can tell you all that our beloved playground could be shut in no time by the police, especially if the owners show the same balls they had when they were bullied by those crooked financial advisors.
Since I care, I do say it out loud.

P.S: I have tried to stay as calm and factual as possible. I actually tried to help EF by raising this point. The only thing I did was to follow up when there was again and again no answer from the mod-team or forum management (well, some mods shared their personal opinion with me and I dare say they actually thanked me...). I do not see how I showed any "righteous indignation". I normally don't flounce, but I guess I should stay off for a couple of days.

Last edited by Treverus; 22.02.2011 at 00:41.
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  #59  
Old 22.02.2011, 01:05
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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I've stayed out of this thread, apart from thanking where I agreed with certain posters, and I can't speak for Treverus, but I don't read his comments as being so indignant with the advertising per se, but as much with the reaction, rather, lack of reaction, from Editor Bob.
The biggest misconception of Editor Bob is that he is the leader/policy maker of this forum. He is neither, he is only an employee of The Local Europe AB (company based in Stockholm Sweden) who is paid to maintain the software that makes everything here on the English Forum work.

Lack of reaction from EB..? Why should he react, are the adverts that The Local Europe AB told him to install on the forum not displaying properly..? Remember, his job is to maintain the forum, not set policies.

If you are truly truly disturbed or worried about advertising on EF that may or may not be illegal or just find the adverts morally wrong then you need to do as Deep Purple stated above and contact "the owners" of the forum: Online gambling section on the EF front page
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  #60  
Old 22.02.2011, 01:43
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Re: Online gambling section on the EF front page

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Lack of reaction from EB..? Why should he react, are the adverts that The Local Europe AB told him to install on the forum not displaying properly..? Remember, his job is to maintain the forum, not set policies.
Are you seriously asking why an administrator of a website should react when users point him to a legal problem? It is not a coincidence that this thread is in forum support. That's where questions and suggestions go and that's where in the past years the powers-to-be gave feedback to them.

If I was running a company like the local, I would very much expect my employees to raise a point like this to me if it pops up. After all is it potentially a business risk (I was not making this up when I said you get a one year prison sentence for it in Germany). And I would - after researching it and making a decision - give the appropriate feedback to the forum. I personally think it should be something like a "thanks for the heads-up", but even a "we had a look and believe it is safe to continue the advertisement" would be ok.

That I do have to follow up to finally get some sarky comments is not what I consider "support". I do not care if editor bob is making the decision or only my point of contact towards the people in Sweden. He is the one running this website and if I have a feedback on his changes to the forum, I expect a reaction in the support forum.

Please let us know if your opinion is personal or if you are writing here on behalf of the mod team. So I know what to do with future suggestions...
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