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  #101  
Old 21.02.2011, 02:21
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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think it is impotent for everybody
Who's impotent here? ( this is not bullying )

Great to see we can all agree on one thing, bully = bad
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  #102  
Old 21.02.2011, 06:02
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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No antagonising on you part then? Just totally unprovoked, a poster decided to threaten you? What was he so angry about?

This actually sounds like an example of what some of us are not happy about: a bit of teasing, taunting, and before you know it someone gets nasty through a sense of frustration. Perhaps if the taunting stopped, then the frustration levels would not rise. It is perfectly possible to have a conversation, discussion, give information, even give advice, without using sarcasm, taunting, teasing, or any other negative retorts.
Over-egging the pudding a bit, aren't you?

Some silly sod took exception to me disagreeing with his being an antagonistic bugger and groaning everyone who disagreed with his nasty, ill-presented points and decided to start sending me private messages threatening to come and find me at an EF event and "teach me some respect".

I reported his threats to the moderators and he was permanently banned.

Like I said: no drama, no hysteria, no whining.

I slept perfectly well after that incident, just as I slept perfectly well after reading this ridiculous thread last night.

A sense of perspective goes a long way.

  #103  
Old 21.02.2011, 08:18
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

On another forum, wot I moderate, we deal with bullying. Real bullying, revealing people's real names, stalking and such like. A casual user of the forum, and probably some regulars wouldn't even be aware of the moderation, because there is no publicly accessibly log of moderator actions.

I don't know whether the mods here deal with bullying. All I can say is that I've not really noticed any. Rudeness, robust language, sarcasm, irony, less than welcoming to newbies - yes. Bullying? No.

One time, a group of us (from the other forum) took a troll holiday at mumsnet. (Childish, I know). Now that place is really scary! (It ended well, it was taken in good part, they took a holiday with us, and a number of us supported some of their charitable efforts).
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  #104  
Old 21.02.2011, 10:01
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

For those using Mark's comments to defend "bullying" (yeah, right!) of repeated/lazy/irrelevant questions, may I point out one sentence?

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I was tempted to say something on thread, but refrained.
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  #105  
Old 21.02.2011, 10:09
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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When faced with a "check previous posts" statement, please don't forget
I was amazed recently to see someone offering a translation service only to have several 'vets' practically condemn this man because of poor grammar. Now yes, this person may not have had the best of grammar (as probably do I)(deal with it !) but what is the harm of someone offering a free translation service to allow non native speakers to read or write the material they are confused with?
I disagree quite vehemently with you on this. The man's English was insufficient for the job, he knew it and was still trying to make a buck. He was called out on his lack of English skills, he whined how we should leave him alone and the original poster was grateful that we pointed out the man's incapabilities. Now I would say that's exactly what a good, caring forum should do.

Last edited by jrspet; 21.02.2011 at 10:11. Reason: Fixed quoting error
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  #106  
Old 21.02.2011, 10:27
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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It`s voluntary. If one doesnt want to answer a question, then don`t. Just leave it for those who don`t mind answering (politely)
We'd rather you didn't. If a thread comes up which has been done to death elsewhere, direct the OP to the appropriate link. This is community minded, more so than giving a straight answer. A Newbie OP may for whatever reason not be aware of the existing threads and fair enough; they'll be redirected.

A large part of Mods work is tiding up after the chronically lazy, the chatters and fluffeh types, the duplicators and time wasters. Time wasters as in 'Wasting Mods Time'. We don't seek recognition for such use of our time, but we'll not ask for forgiveness for doing our duty.

We rarely deal with real bullying, but get plenty of "Why oh why is life so unfair..?" posts, which we obligingly look into and assess. A lot of the time we do nothing as nothing is warranted.

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I think it is about members being bullies and no one stops them to bully! Like AbFab said in the other thread, it is happening because it has no more boss or chief in here. Not because of the mods, I think it is quite obvious that the mods are not enough in the team to be able to see and handle everything on the forum and they may not know which direction to take anymore.

But to see people being allowed to bully others when it is strictly against the forum rules is the main concern here.
Nah. See my previous reply. I rarely blow the Mods trumpet, but we do a pretty good job. Mods come from a wide cross section of the Membership and I'm pleased they do so well.

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I do agree with you.

I'm a computer programmer and I spend a lot of time on forums for helping/getting help with coding. Programming forums are notorious for snarkiness and impatience. I'm that way myself sometimes! But those forums are MUCH less unpleasant than this one.

Several of my friends agree that this forum does stand out for the nastiness and pettiness of some of the commenters and moderators. Posts get moved by moderators for ridiculous, petty reasons, there is a sort of "in-crowd" made up of people who exclude everyone else by making incomprehensible inside jokes/comments on posts, there is a lot of meanness. It's a shame.

As a result, I have used this forum much less than I had hoped to at first.
I must spend more time in programming Fora. They sound great!

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Moderators have having the hands full right now and with probably too little intructions.
Nah again. We're doing fine.

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No antagonising on you part then? Just totally unprovoked, a poster decided to threaten you? What was he so angry about?

This actually sounds like an example of what some of us are not happy about: a bit of teasing, taunting, and before you know it someone gets nasty through a sense of frustration. Perhaps if the taunting stopped, then the frustration levels would not rise. It is perfectly possible to have a conversation, discussion, give information, even give advice, without using sarcasm, taunting, teasing, or any other negative retorts.
I'd hope it would be possible to have zero Fluff, dimwittedness, laziness, preciousness, trollery, drive by Newbies, inconsiderates, and did I mention time wasters? This is the real word, not - as has been mentioned previously - "the internet". Treat behaviour in this place as one would in any other public environment.

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... I think it is important for everybody to have their say ...
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Last edited by Uncle Max; 21.02.2011 at 11:23. Reason: typo
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  #107  
Old 21.02.2011, 10:28
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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No antagonising on you part then? Just totally unprovoked, a poster decided to threaten you? What was he so angry about?
Ah, the "she was asking for it" defence.
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  #108  
Old 21.02.2011, 11:01
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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Cool. We're having a killer argument here. It's sounds good if you don't think about it.

If you think that a forum or/and a night club is the same as living in a country run by a dictator you may have a point. But if you take in account what the real impact on your life is you maybe differentiate your actions.

I think you are taking a literary device too literally. But now that you've gone there, the kind of Forum and Moderatorship you describe befits a forum from places like China, Iran or (...some oppressed country or corporation...). That is not at all the spirit of EF, lest it has filled with people of the same mentality lately.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with questioning a Mod, and have had clashes with many a mod. The fact that I can do that honestly and fairly, and still continue to use the forum is a testament to the fairness of the Forum. Should this forum fill up with users whose sense of free expression is stifled by the kind of fearful sentiment you describe, this forum will no longer be the place that it is, and be worth less than crap.

May this place not fill up with the kind of sheepish/submissive attitude you describe. Replace the bouncer if it does.
  #109  
Old 21.02.2011, 11:41
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

@ OP
I guess your complaint was heard. Mods close threads to maintain this readable.

When the "read previous threads" comment is presented, Mods (like longbyt) are kind/smart/awesome enough to put the link to it.

Now to the bitter side of this post.
Dude, if you were "living" 23 years on the "nastiest" places on earth that we cannot even begin to fathom; then you should have that little thing called "perspective" (which of course, me being a lazy armchair psychologist/internet warrior, lack). I would not expect anyone to put their hopes on answering a question on a free forum on internet.


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I see absolutely nothing wrong with questioning a Mod, and have had clashes with many a mod. The fact that I can do that honestly and fairly, and still continue to use the forum is a testament to the fairness of the Forum.
Yet "whiny" old guards are kindly asked to considering retiring? The bickering and nagging of the veterans attest to the same freedom.
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  #110  
Old 21.02.2011, 11:47
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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The English Forum is, quite simply, the best resource for English speaking foreigners in Switzerland. It didn't become that by being a dry repository of information created by robots.
It's even helpful for locals, the stuff people have found out and shared is amazing. And if you need any further proof - every so often you get a post that asks whethere there is "something like English Forum" in Singapore/Afghanistan/Canada/any other country. As far as I understand, there isn't. It's a unique idea dreamt up and nurtured by someone who had vision and incredible altruism and is sadly no longer with us.

But maybe an English Forum Wiki would be the next level - I'd definitely contribute if there was such a thing. For starters, I know all the Räbeliechtli songs that have baffled more than one expatriot mother.
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  #111  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:20
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

What is this thread about? I´ve really lost the plot on this one....
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  #112  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:21
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

oh look what the cat dragged in - another thread about forum behaviour

yawn....
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  #113  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:38
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

This thread is a tower of Babel
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  #114  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:39
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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I was amazed recently to see someone offering a translation service only to have several 'vets' practically condemn this man because of poor grammar. Now yes, this person may not have had the best of grammar (as probably do I)(deal with it !) but what is the harm of someone offering a free translation service to allow non native speakers to read or write the material they are confused with?
So you'd be quite happy with my free tooth-pulling service for expats who don't like Swiss dentists' prices?

I'm thinking of expanding into eye tests too. How does "The Blind Leading the Blind" sound as a business name??
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  #115  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:42
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

Every newbie coming up with the same salary question can honestly be very annoying and due respect to all the moderators who take time to help /keep the forum clean and organized.
Some moderators tend to be more neutral, some seem to be a tad bit friendlier while some tend to go more by the rules.

And regarding being rude, Newbie’s/Members can /are rude too, but they are harmless and you can often ignore them but that’s not the case with moderators
Strict rules sometimes feel unfair, they prove to work
But over moderation of thread could be a killer too

As long as there is a balance (Quite honestly, it is a very balanced forum), I would not complain J

Well a nice article.
http://www.communityspark.com/the-real-purpose-of-forum-moderators-revealed/
  #116  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:46
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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It's even helpful for locals, the stuff people have found out and shared is amazing. And if you need any further proof - every so often you get a post that asks whethere there is "something like English Forum" in Singapore/Afghanistan/Canada/any other country. As far as I understand, there isn't. It's a unique idea dreamt up and nurtured by someone who had vision and incredible altruism and is sadly no longer with us.
Actually, there are expat forums for some countries similar in concept to the English forum here. However, they are less moderated and much more vicious (try Expatica, SGexpats etc).

I've refrained from posting so far reading, comments from both sides and what really irritates me and prompted me to post is the hypocrisy of some people who are ranting about being nice to newbies when I can pull up some posts where they've been equally rude and nasty to newbies.

When I first arrived in Zürich, I didnt hear of the Englishforum. I was stuck in a temporary furnished accomodation provided by hubby's company for 2 months. Knowing no one and never hearing of the forum, I did what I knew how to do back home - that is to call up estate agents on the list that I found in Google asking for lists of accomodation. Obviously, as things werent done that way and ZERO German, I had people telling me off till one kind soul on the other end of the line one day pointed me to homegate.

Thats also when I accidentally chanced upon the English forum typing in "best places in zurich to live". Yes, I have to admit, as a newbie, the forum was initimidating. The sheer amount of information was overwhelming (isnt it so when you move to a new place??). I dare not post and just simply spent countless hours soaking up the information - rolling my eyes in disgust at some smartarses and yet chuckling at some of their wittier comments. I still remembered how scary this forum was - but no less scarier than some of the current forums that I still belong to. I took the plunge and posted a couple of threads and people have been nothing but helpful and nice with great information. Of course I got some unhelpful smart-arse comments, but why bother? When you post something in public, you attract the good and the bad. Simpy sieve out the bad.

Out of sheer boredom, I started going to some events. From my conversations, what I've been through is nothing compared to some of the old timers who have been here, and hearing their stories of how they struggled before EF was established, I cringed and thought to myself that I'd probably degenerate into a nervous wreck with a severe drinking problem.

Yes, we all are disoriented and lost when we arrive in a new country knowing no one. We miss our families and the familiarity of how things are done, the way we know it. I dont think any of the older members are dismissing how difficult it is. All of us have been through it in various shades of hell. But expecting to be spoon fed really isnt going to get you far. And I certainly dont buy the "I dont have time to sieve through all that information" claptrap whinge. No darling, sorry, go get yourself a relocation agent if you are truly that strapped for time. Call it a baptism of fire, but everyone else started the same way and survived. You can too. You might even chance upon other useful information that you can file away for future use.

I can see both sides - I truly can. I have been guilty on more than one occasion snapping at lazy newbies and having been on the forum for almost 3 years now, such threads about how nasty and grumpy the veterans are comes up every 6 months.

The point of this verbal diarrohea is simply you get what you give. There are so many people who've made the effort in making this forum as user-friendly as possible - for example, most recently, Mr Village Idiot who wrote such an exhaustive post about salaries. And Planthead who've started a great thread about the cost of living - there are still people out there who ask the "do you think 120K a year is enough to feed a family of 5???", , Mr Swissbob who is always trying to help newbies out with permit questions only to be treated like some information counter, and not to mention, Frau melloncollie who has tirelessly provided such excellent, well informed posts about pets here in Switzerland - these are just a few people off the top of my head at the moment. I am sure there are more. Yet, there are still people who expect everything handed to them on a silver platter - without even a word of thanks. So forgive me if some of us get a little irritated when repeated questions come up - and then get called out for bullying (??!).

A forum is what it is at the end of the day - a forum, with faceless handles. Once you post information out there, you cannot stop the good or the bad from coming in - but from personal experience, lots of generosity goes on behind the scenes too . It is really what you want this place to be.

PS: do remind me to rehash this post again in 6 months or so.
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  #117  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:49
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

Oh! Here is a thread that is about something we saw so many times/ full of whinning/ is very boring / bla bla bla...

I could go, click on it and give a total useless answer just to look like a smart ass OR I can just not open it and look at what else is there that I could find more interesting...

Tough choice I must said...
  #118  
Old 21.02.2011, 12:56
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

I hate to be part of this discussion butmy general comment to this thread and its mutations is that there is too much vocal venting going on and mincing the same old meat all the time on the open forum. I think more appropriate and elegant way to deal with it would be to address the issue via PM to whom it might concern. It just tends to escalate and encourage more and more answers (forgive me being one of them ) leading to inevitable.
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  #119  
Old 21.02.2011, 13:16
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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So you'd be quite happy with my free tooth-pulling service for expats who don't like Swiss dentists' prices?

I'm thinking of expanding into eye tests too. How does "The Blind Leading the Blind" sound as a business name??

It still doesn't justify the crudeness in the way it is done sometimes, at least from a point of decency or taste. But then again, some relish in the opportunity to crap on someone else.
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Old 21.02.2011, 13:18
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Re: Why do topics get moderated on the very subject they are trying to address ?

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But then again, some relish in the opportunity to crap on someone else.
Yes you do, don't you?
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