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  #41  
Old 28.02.2011, 17:03
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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What the hell does that mean? Have you been a to an "Inappropriate Analogy" workshop recently?
I apologise. Don't get worked up. Let me explain what I meant "free" of any analogy. What you're talking about is an area of a property, in this case a website/forum where there are no rules/enforcement/moderation. This doesn't seem viable to me because it would be so open to abuse. The way I know this is because it is already abused even with moderation. The mind boggles when I try and imagine an unmoderated section of the forum.
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Old 28.02.2011, 17:05
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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I think perhaps someone needs to point out to Econ. that this is not a real place and that he, nor anyone else "live" here.

just sayin^
Of course it's a real place.
  #43  
Old 28.02.2011, 17:06
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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The mind boggles when I try and imagine an unmoderated section of the forum.
OK, maybe unmoderated was a poor choice of phrase, but I think the Mods could be a little more lax about Off-Topic and let us members choose if we think something is totally inappropriate, offensive or insulting. The report post feature is there for a reason.
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Old 28.02.2011, 17:07
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

Isn't it ok to have some noise in the noisy thread?

Isn't it ok to have some fun in the topics like
Ready to watch the Oscar Award Ceremony tonight?
or someone complaining about unwanted guests?
I'm grateful for..?

What information is lost in threads like these even if there is a bit of noise?

Personally they all belong to off topic category and should not be moderated unless people post some abusive comments.

It is important to mod / keep the threads clean particularly asking for a genuine information (related to Switzerland)
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  #45  
Old 28.02.2011, 17:08
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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I apologise. Don't get worked up. Let me explain what I meant "free" of any analogy. What you're talking about is an area of a property, in this case a website/forum where there are no rules/enforcement/moderation. This doesn't seem viable to me because it would be so open to abuse. The way I know this is because it is already abused even with moderation. The mind boggles when I try and imagine an unmoderated section of the forum.
But is Off Topic really being abused? Isn't it, by its very name and existence, a place for people to have fun, vent, be frivoulous ...? That is certainly the way in which it has been used by the Mods in their frequent moving of threads to OT.
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Old 28.02.2011, 17:08
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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Spoiling much, Nil?

You miss the point of my response you so unsubtly raised earlier, as predicted.
Yes because you believe that I am too stupid to understand. You do like to put other down to feel bigger, don't you? And that obviously do the trick!

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Nil, I don't think anyone is saying that you're not contributing to the forum: clearly you do contribute on a regular basis. The idea of signal to noise ratio is indeed the ratio: that is, the proportion of rubbish posts to helpful posts. The problem with rubbish posts is that even in off topic they have to be moderated which takes up a load of mods time I'm guessing (we've all seen off topic rubbish on the middle east stretch to a hundred pages which need to be read and monitored and moderated). It also makes searching for real information really difficult, especially when I search by post because a hundred page middle east thread will contain all known keywords in the world so I can't find how to re-register a car from Geneva to Zurich. I like a banter as much as the next person of course, but surely you can see UM's point here?
I understand your point Eco. (shocking uncle Max, isn't it?) Believe me, I have my ratio of insults coming from our dear Mod (off-public) telling me just that. Or making assumption like his reply above that I can't understand something...

I respect every mods in here and their very hard work. I am the first to thank them and when ever I misplace a thread or question and they have to move it, I thank them for the time they take. I know how hard work it is. I also like to hear from them in different topics with their opinions and tips. But when a mod feel that he can be rude, insulting and plain mean to the members, I can't accept it and shut up. As a mod, you do have a forum image to show and the attitude he/ she shows is what represent the forum. Same as EB giving smart ass answers. It doesn't make a forum look good and noise as little to do with it.

Ouchboy said it quite well. You are mod for a reason, a purpose but no one is forcing you to do so. If being mod bring you more headaches than pleasure, it is maybe time for a break, fresh air, etc.

Last thing, Economisto, Thank you to acknowledge the contribution I bring in here between the fluffehness.
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  #47  
Old 28.02.2011, 17:13
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

Wow guys - I have to say that I am very very shocked (and disappointed to say the least) to have read some of the comments on here - especially the part where fellow EFers are saying that a mod shouldnt express his views and observations about the noise level here on the forum simply because he knew what it was like before he took up the job.

As a member of many other forums and a current mod on a music forum, I see how vicious it can get (especially with musicians - we have big big egos) with much less modding and am personally grateful for the time these current mods have contributed because it is not easy at all - regardless of whether we agree with their decisions or not.

Not that I mind about the noise ratio on here, because I simply ignore those threads that keep popping up but I have to admit that my ignore list has grown considerably lately. There have been certain threads (I cant remember off the top of my head now - i will go look) which started out seriously and by page 2 it turns to banter - it can be very frustrating for the OP trying to find a serious solution to his predicament or questions. Agreed? A couple of witty remarks here and there is fine, but someone's got to press the STOP button and not turn it into yet another banter thread. I love banter posts - some of them make me scream with laughter and press the rep button without hesitation. Nothing wrong with that. There is just a time and place for everything - OFF TOPIC is where I think it all belongs.

Also, correct me if I am wrong - I dont think UM is saying that there shouldnt be ANY banter at all, nor is he devaluing anyone's contributions on here. Perhaps your noise posts have outshone the more valuable ones that formulated a reader's opinion of you as a "chatter" rather than someone with good information about life in Switzerland. Something to chew on perhaps?

My 2 rappens.
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  #48  
Old 28.02.2011, 17:19
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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Not that I mind about the noise ratio on here, because I simply ignore those threads that keep popping up, but I have to admit that my ignore list has grown considerably lately. There have been certain threads (I cant remember off the top of my head now) which started out seriously and by page 2 it turns to banter - it can be very frustrating for the OP trying to find a serious solution to his predicament or questions. Agreed? A couple of witty remarks here and there is fine, but someone's got to press the STOP button and not turn it into yet another banter thread.
This I totally agree 10000% with you. Serious discussion should stay on Topic and this is when the mods are so important for.

But when it comes to off topic, as long as people are not being rude, insulting, racist, maniac, bullies... I don't see the problem.
  #49  
Old 28.02.2011, 17:24
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

Good grief - again - Nil.

I don't even know where to start replying to your open accusations as you twist and misrepresent even the simplest of comments. If you wish to hammer out something you misunderstand you're welcome to PM me, but your posting in thread doesn't endear me to bother replying. I don't care if you're Einstein or Rammstein but I do expect adult dialogue, not deliberate rudeness.
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Old 28.02.2011, 17:37
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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OK, maybe unmoderated was a poor choice of phrase, but I think the Mods could be a little more lax about Off-Topic and let us members choose if we think something is totally inappropriate, offensive or insulting. The report post feature is there for a reason.
It's not a stupid suggestion. But in my time on the forum that button has been incredibly over used (the mind shoots to one, now-banned member specifically) or underused by most other users (hence the need for moderation in off-topic, or the results of lack of moderation which include "mobbing", racism, weird nonsensical posts etc). For me your suggestion is something that I would love to work, but don't think it would actually work in reality based on what I've seen so far.
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Old 28.02.2011, 17:54
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

Mind you, from the people that have fun and banter (including me) , do moderate ourselves.

If one of those fun and banter makers goes out of line, we say it to eachother, thus the offending post is removed by the poster, and banter is changed back to topic or as close as we can get it.
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Old 28.02.2011, 17:59
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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Mind you, from the people that have fun and banter (including me) , do moderate ourselves.

If one of those fun and banter makers goes out of line, we say it to eachother, thus the offending post is removed by the poster, and banter is changed back to topic or as close as we can get it.
So, what you are saying Joey, is that we have effectively become self-moderating ... at least in Off Topic
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  #53  
Old 28.02.2011, 18:03
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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So, what you are saying Joey, is that we have effectively become self-moderating ... at least in Off Topic
Not saying we don't need mod's , we do need them..

Just saying that if we feel one is going to far, we will tell and changes are made.
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Old 28.02.2011, 19:06
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

Guys, again - the quantity is the topic of debate here - not the quality.
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Old 28.02.2011, 19:47
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

So, from the perspective of one of the prospective "noise makers" (after all, as my situation hasn't changed so much in the past year, I'm back to depending upon the forum for information rather than providing information to others), this is what I see:

Exhibit A: QUEST for a 6-Piece (KFC) VII

Exhibit B: English breakfast plus QUIZ

Exhibit C: You know you've spent too much time on the EF when...

Exhibit D: Are the English dim ?


What is the difference, ultimately, between the "conversations" going on in each of those threads? The titles give the expectation they will be something new, heck, "Exhibit B" is even a commercial event - AND there is a question about the offerings buried someplace in the middle of that ginormous thread - does anyone really, seriously expect the OP (or anyone else) to wade through all that back-and-forth between a few people to find the question?

I understand it's fun while it's happening, especially for those involved. It's (sometimes) fun to read (particularly when I'm bored ) but surely we should sometimes step back and think to ourselves what is going on, what are we doing.

So, perhaps the suggestion is on track about using the chat function rather than muddying up - or creating - a bunch of threads to have what really is an ongoing conversation.

I've never used it as when it's caught my eye it has been only a specific pair of members "in" it and I don't want to feel like I'm interrupting anything. That doesn't mean it can't be used though.
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Old 28.02.2011, 19:59
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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So, from the perspective of one of the prospective "noise makers" (after all, as my situation hasn't changed so much in the past year, I'm back to depending upon the forum for information rather than providing information to others), this is what I see:

Exhibit A: QUEST for a 6-Piece (KFC) VII

Exhibit B: English breakfast plus QUIZ

Exhibit C: You know you've spent too much time on the EF when...

Exhibit D: Are the English dim ?


What is the difference, ultimately, between the "conversations" going on in each of those threads? The titles give the expectation they will be something new, heck, "Exhibit B" is even a commercial event - AND there is a question about the offerings buried someplace in the middle of that ginormous thread - does anyone really, seriously expect the OP (or anyone else) to wade through all that back-and-forth between a few people to find the question?

I understand it's fun while it's happening, especially for those involved. It's (sometimes) fun to read (particularly when I'm bored ) but surely we should sometimes step back and think to ourselves what is going on, what are we doing.

So, perhaps the suggestion is on track about using the chat function rather than muddying up - or creating - a bunch of threads to have what really is an ongoing conversation.

I've never used it as when it's caught my eye it has been only a specific pair of members "in" it and I don't want to feel like I'm interrupting anything. That doesn't mean it can't be used though.

The breakfast thread brought in over 25 people, not bad as the OP last time got..none..

Part of that was due to the joking around.. and believe me,we all had great fun on the day itself.

2 of the "bantering " crowd are staff in the pub, who monitor the thread and questions every day, and answer the person by PM.. no problem there

Chat function is ok but no fun for people who are posting left right and centre during the day.

Not everyone spends 24/7 in front of the pc..
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Old 28.02.2011, 20:10
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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The breakfast thread brought in over 25 people, not bad as the OP last time got..none..

Part of that was due to the joking around.. and believe me,we all had great fun on the day itself.
I'm sure there was a great turnout, I'm sure you all had fun... I'm also sure that I saw someone say they'd stopped by but were too intimidated to stay.

Perhaps if the banter were more inclusive the turnout would have been even better.

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2 of the "bantering " crowd are staff in the pub, who monitor the thread and questions every day, and answer the person by PM.. no problem there
Actually, it is a problem as more than just that one person may have benefited by the answer.

Perhaps if the question were answered within the thread - and it would have been visible rather than buried in "noise" - there (again) may have been even better turnout.

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Chat function is ok but no fun for people who are posting left right and centre during the day.

Not everyone spends 24/7 in front of the pc..
I fail to see that there would be much difference between the banter happening as it happens in chat vs in threads.

If you're somehow "worried" you'll miss part of the conversation due to scroll (as opposed to how it is saved within the thread, easily replied to later), all you have to do is scroll up (or down?) to pick up where you left off.

Of course, the thread of the conversation itself will likely have moved on by then but there's certainly no harm in that, is there? Just talk about whatever the new topic is.
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Old 28.02.2011, 20:14
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

Hold on, EF members were sitting all over the pub, mixed with Swiss customers so there was nothing going on when the person walked in.

The person that posted that said he/she was to shy to ask if anyone was from EF.

I'd be the same to when i walk in a pub on my own,not knowing anyone - this has nothing todo with intimidation.

It's not like we had a sign above our head " EF".. the person could not know who was from EF and not..the pub also has its regular customers.

We didn't go out of line at any stage yesterday.

But point taken, no more banter, all serious from now on.

Fun sucking has commenced...
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Old 28.02.2011, 20:20
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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The breakfast thread brought in over 25 people, not bad as the OP last time got..none..

Part of that was due to the joking around.. and believe me,we all had great fun on the day itself.

2 of the "bantering " crowd are staff in the pub, who monitor the thread and questions every day, and answer the person by PM.. no problem there

Chat function is ok but no fun for people who are posting left right and centre during the day.

Not everyone spends 24/7 in front of the pc..
There are some social events arranged - for the want of an example - where there is so much back-and-forth banter within the thread of a frankly "Hey, Woo, Nuts! " variety that people may also think "Jeez if it's gonna be like that, I'll stick with the TV and a takeaway". Fair enough, the old squares can go to bed early, right? But expand that out to the whole resource that is the Forum...
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Old 28.02.2011, 20:20
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Re: Signal to Noise ratio

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But point taken, no more banter, all serious from now on.

No one said "none" - least of all me. Heck, I think the first thread / post I got greenies for was speculation about the existence of poltergeists affecting my bedroom blinds.

What is being said it that there is too much AND that it (what is essentially a continuing conversation) carries over into too many other threads.

You want to be social and converse, it's all good BUT really, there is a place for that - chat and events.
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