English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Forum support (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum-support/)
-   -   A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities" (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum-support/109101-question-those-who-would-report-ef-authorities.html)

Ouchboy 18.03.2011 12:22

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Apparently not.

We're all Swiss-bashers, even when we're not, and we're all going to pay for it. :msnshock:
Am I going to get the bill via Post?

nigelr 18.03.2011 12:23

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 1139932)
btw - I want to know whether the fact that I've often said that I like living here, that Switzerland is my home, and I don't want to live anywhere else, carries any weight?

No, because I can feel your sarcasm. It is not true and you have said it because deep down you are truly scared. Come the day of the revolution (or court case - whichever is sooner) your name will still be on the list.

adrianlondon 18.03.2011 12:26

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Natasha (Post 1139933)
Xenophobes Guide?

I'm not going to read a book by some crazy Greek.

Guest 18.03.2011 12:27

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

And everyone else?

Must the entire membership of the forum lose out just because a few people are unhappy in Switzerland and choose to express that unhappiness in Complaints Corner?

No, the rest do not lose out because of a few unhappy people. They would lose out for failing to uphold a better standard.


Quote:

We're all Swiss-bashers, even when we're not, and we're all going to pay for it. :msnshock:

Poor victims, eh?


By the way, this is the responsibility of mods, to make sure that the content on the site is within legal standards.

Slaphead 18.03.2011 12:29

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Actually, for once I'm not finding this in the least bit amusing.

The thought of the English Forum being shut down just because someone had his/her feelings hurt makes me unhappy, given the amount of good this forum has achieved over the last six years.

The question I asked at the beginning of this thread was a genuine one: I really do want to know what CHexo and Kittster hope to achieve by reporting the English Forum to "the authorities".

If that is construed as 'trolling', then so be it. But that is certainly not my intention.
Intention or not, it certainly gave us yet another mess of a thread.

However, in answer to your question, it would seem that if any action was taken it would be taken against the individual, and the not the forum as a whole. Also as far as I'm aware nobody here has made remarks against the Swiss quite of the gravity of those examples quoted by Kittster.

I can fully understand why some of our Swiss members have taken issue with some of the comments made here lately. Quite frankly if the boot was on the other foot I'd probably be at bit peed off at the moment.

The fact of the matter is that those people who hate Switzerland and/or hate the Swiss will eventually find a way to leave, and those that like Switzerland and the Swiss will work at being able to stay. There will always be people that either through choice, or necessity end up in Switzerland, and then find that the culture is not to their taste at all. These people will inevitably vent off at some stage or another. However from what I've seen these people may be the most vocal, but they are in the minority of the expats that I know.

That said, I've got say that I'm getting a little tired of the general people bashing going on here at the moment.

Guest 18.03.2011 12:30

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 1139946)
No, the rest do not lose out because of a few unhappy people. They would lose out for failing to uphold a better standard.

You sound just like our teachers back in the 70s who used that excuse to punish the entire class for the transgressions of the few.

Collective punishment sucks. I'd be thoroughly disappointed to see it applied to the English Forum.

bigblue2 18.03.2011 12:31

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
was there a big "do" lastnight where everyone got pissed, got on the internet and typed bollocks, or was it all some weird joke i don't get?

Assuming its serious for a minute, I guess some people don't understand the concept of free speech. just what do you think the 'authorities' can possibly do? iirc EF is now based in germany, no one (That I have read) has ever posted anything like "I hate switzerland, lets bomb it" so no incitement, and on top of that most people are anonymous and not swiss citizens, so please explain what you expect the authorities to do??

Unless you really want an internet like China?

If it was all a joke, then I still don't get it.

18.03.2011 12:32

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 1139953)
no one ... has ever posted anything like "I hate switzerland, lets bomb it"

Until now :eek:

Guest 18.03.2011 12:35

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaphead (Post 1139948)
Intention or not, it certainly gave us yet another mess of a thread...
That said, I've got say that I'm getting a little tired of the general people bashing going on here at the moment.

That's a fair answer, and I can see how you'd think I was trying to start a fresh fight.

Still, I would be genuinely interested in hearing from those who made the legal threats as to what they hope to achieve by their actions. Do they want to see individual members get into trouble with the law? Do they want to see the English Forum shut down?

Surely their answers are of interest to all of us?

Guest 18.03.2011 12:36

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Well, if it is particular users or posts.... its easy enough to deal with it. You delete the post, and the user if necessary.

If it is more of a systematic allowance of such posts, then it comes across as sacntioned by the management of the site. In which case, you modify the management of the site, or deal with the site

I've seen way too much go by without a word or action from mods. I think mods could use a new approach towards racial sensitivity. Some training needed perhaps?

Guest 18.03.2011 12:47

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaphead (Post 1139948)
Intention or not, it certainly gave us yet another mess of a thread.

Such things give one an opportunity to deal with it, so it can't be all that bad.

Nickers 18.03.2011 12:54

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Bit of a baptism of fire for poor old Eco eh as a new mod. I reckon he is the new 22 Yards - there will be effigies being burnt of him as we speak :rolleyes:

Ziger 18.03.2011 13:01

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Wow! Iíve been gone a few days and now this. Ugly!

The threats of legal action are an unnecessary and unhelpful escalation. What follows is a little insight into the Swiss Criminal Code and court practice, beginning with the relevant law (in English! of course):

Quote:

Art. 261bis Racial discrimination
Any person who publicly incites hatred or discrimination against a person or a group of persons on the grounds of their race, ethnic origin or religion, any person who publicly disseminates ideologies that have as their object the systematic denigration or defamation of the members of a race, ethnic group or religion,
any person who with the same objective organises, encourages or participates in propaganda campaigns,
any person who publicly denigrates or discriminates against another or a group of persons on the grounds of their race, ethnic origin or religion in a manner that violates human dignity, whether verbally, in writing or pictorially, by using gestures, through acts of aggression or by other means, or any person who on any of these grounds denies, trivialises or seeks justification for genocide or other crimes against humanity,
any person who refuses to provide a service to another on the grounds of that personís race, ethnic origin or religion when that service is intended to be provided to the general public,
shall be liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or to a monetary penalty.
The parts Iíve highlighted are the ones that could possibly be relevant.

Hate, according to the Bundesgericht, is much more than antipathy, aversion, animosity and dislike and also more than anger and fury. It is a fundamentally hostile attitude. I havenít read through all the comments but it would take quite a lot for this definition to be fulfilled. Simply bitching about the Swiss and saying negative things about them is not enough to meet the standards of Art. 261bis of the Swiss Criminal Code.

Violation of human dignity
This would be the case when the comments deny Swiss people their fundamental human rights, i.e., treat them as if they are less than human and undeserving of respect and dignity. For example, a newspaper article described all people who seek asylum as freeloaders who are unwilling and uninterested in working. This was not considered a violation. The Swiss courts differentiate between slander and racism and also between racism and the freedom of speech.

Again, it takes a lot more than bad-mouthing the Swiss to fall under Art. 261bis. Certainly not everyone does it on the forum and it is not forum policy to encourage this. Could some of the comments be considered slanderous? Perhaps. That doesnít make them racist or discriminatory in the sense of Art. 261bis. And it certainly doesnít make the English Forum guilty of inciting or disseminating racist and discriminatory ideologies.

Throwing around threats is certainly a great way to try to intimidate people, especially foreigners who may not know the ins and outs of the legal system in the country that they are living in. I understand that it is not nice to hear people rag on your country or culture: I am American after all. American bashing in general seems to be very acceptable but despite all the horrible things I have read and heard said about Americans, it would not cross my mind to try and drag someone or a whole forum in front of the court because my (American) sensibilities have been hurt. Discuss: yes. Confront and explain why the opinion that was expressed is invalid, hurtful etc: absolutely. Threaten legal action: bullying is ugly.

Wasted 18.03.2011 13:02

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 1139932)
OK. Now what? :cool:

btw - I want to know whether the fact that I've often said that I like living here, that Switzerland is my home, and I don't want to live anywhere else, carries any weight?

Seems like it was'nt really good. Try it with someone else :msnnerd:

No it does not, it just means you want to live here for the higher standard of living and the peace and tranquility life here offers, but you are still biased against the Swiss people. Bacially reaping the good harvest of what the Swiss people sowed and tended to over the centuries.

You probably wish if somehow the local Swiss would disappaer and you can invite over your fellow Brits and enjoy a jolly good banter at the local British pub.

Faltrad 18.03.2011 13:11

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
It's been a long time witout French bashing. People don't want to play anymore?
Btw, was American bashing a one off just as an experiment or did I miss the other rounds?
In a spirit of unity and integration, we can always start a Swiss-EF German bashing campaign. That's the "one size fits all" of bashing.

Guest 18.03.2011 13:11

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 24799


NotAllThere 18.03.2011 13:13

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nigelr (Post 1139943)
No, because I can feel your sarcasm. ...

So if you say something positive, it's sarcasm. If you say something intended to be ironic, it's being negative. You can't win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasted (Post 1139999)
...No it does not, it just means you want to live here for the higher standard of living and the peace and tranquility life here offers, but you are still biased against the Swiss people. Bacially reaping the good harvest of what the Swiss people sowed and tended to over the centuries.

You probably wish if somehow the local Swiss would disappaer and you can invite over your fellow Brits and enjoy a jolly good banter at the local British pub.

Total nonsense. Where you get the idea that I'm biased against anyone is beyond me. I'm not into pub culture, and spend little time with British expats. As to the suggestion that I'm biased against the Swiss - I don't know whether to :msnmad: or :rofl:

I think you must be reflecting your own attitudes onto me. :rolleyes:

Guest 18.03.2011 13:13

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziger (Post 1139998)
Wow! I’ve been gone a few days and now this. Ugly!


Confront and explain why the opinion that was expressed is invalid, hurtful etc: absolutely. Threaten legal action: bullying is ugly.


Poor victims again? :rolleyes:

Favorable interpretaion, but some members and a real judge may not agree with you.

Truth be told, there are many who love the ugly of the site, and seem to exist as members solely for that purpose. The litmus test is whether there would be any change in direction after admonishment. Admonishment is not bullying, it is correction.

Mikers 18.03.2011 13:17

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 1140006)
It's been a long time witout French bashing. People don't want to play anymore?
Btw, was American bashing a one off just as an experiment or did I miss the other rounds?
In a spirit of unity and integration, we can always start a Swiss-EF German bashing campaign. That's the "one size fits all" of bashing.

go to google.com

enter "french military victories"

click on I'm feeling lucky.

Its old, you've probably seen it before, but at least it's French bashing, so credit where credit is due.

Faltrad 18.03.2011 13:21

Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB (Post 1140016)
go to google.com

What? French bashing has been outsourced?
Good old times are gone.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:46.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0